On Barrel Length: How long is long enough?

[Garry L Gordon]

Rainy day reading and I stumbled upon some good stuff on the history of shotgunning for game birds. In his history of shooting, E. D. Cuming notes that J. Sprint writes in his book Experienc'd Fowler(1700) that he and his contemporaries used "flint-lock guns" with a barrel of five and a half feet, with "cleverly made tapers." He notes the more muscular, among "the brethren" used barrels of six feet. Apparently they used rests (who wouldn't need a rest at that length). It seems it was a two man job sighting and shooting.

As Cuming quotes Sprint, "Your preparations completed, the other man fired at the birds sitting, and you loosed off 'as soon as ever he...has pulled the tricker and flashes in the pan, or at least if you are very near as soon as you hear the report of his piece."

Cuming goes on to describe the introduction of "setting dogs" and the shortening of barrels (to 4 feet!).

I thought you long barrel aficionados might be interested in this early history of barrel length. Apparently, those of you who covet long barrels have precedent.

[John Davis]

I find the preference for barrel length an interesting subject. Is it practical or emotional? Sometimes it seems to be what’s popular at the time and like any fad tastes change. Wide ties vs narrow ties. Wide lapels vs narrow lapels. But there is certainly a practical side to it as well. For skeet, quail, grouse I would think 26 to 28 inches would be optimal. However I’m not a skeet shooter and have never seen a grouse, so what do I know. For sporting clays, pheasant, ducks seems like 30 inches is about perfect. Of course I’m pitiful at SC’s and most of the ducks and pheasants I have taken aim at had nothing to fear. I will say with some personal conviction that 30 inches is my preference for doubles trap, 32” for singles and 34” for handicap. And 5 to 6 feet seems a bit extreme but I wouldn’t be surprised to see Randy Roberts running the sporting course with such a gun now that he knows they exist.

[Garry L Gordon]

John, I agree that there must be an element of fad or fashion in the vogue of certain barrel lengths. I remember growing up that short barrels were quite popular. Certainly handling characteristics come into play, but a well balanced gun is a well balanced gun, no matter its barrel length. I can also see the advantage to barrel length as it pertains to weight and the inertia of the gun movement. But that's perhaps as much about weight as barrel length. I've read Churchill's theory of shooting his 25 inch guns.

Now, the question is, will Reggie Bishop shoot at the bird to make it flush and Randy Roberts gets the follow-up shot or vice versa?:) And I wonder if any of those 6 foot guns are still around (and in whose safe)?

So, for me, I'll hedge my bets and get as many different barrel lengths as possible.:) Hey, it's a good excuse for acquisition...

[Reggie Bishop]

For me it’s multiple factors that tend to draw me towards longer barrel Parkers. Form, function, style, novelty and rarity are all descriptors I might use. I am a tall guy and a longer barrel gun just feels better in my hands. I have a 30” straight stock 20 that to me is about the ultimate upland gun. It swings nicely, it’s well balanced and yeah it looks racy! I like oddities and have a 32” 20 on the 1 frame with a straight stock Monte Carlo, splinter and a Parker single trigger and factory 2 7/8” chambers. I don’t know what the person had in mind when he ordered it but he or she must have liked the unusual as well. I own one 26” Parker that is a beautiful gun but those short barrels put me in mind of a coach gun! I don’t shoot trap. Never been on a skeet field. I hunt turkeys and dove. I am threatening to start shooting some sporting clays. So for me I will continue to be inclined to lean towards the longer.

[matt koepnick]

For most of earlier hunting life ( Pheasants and Ducks) I have primarily owned and used 26 inch doubles. When i gravitated to Parkers, my first was also a 26 inch repro 12. Years later I wound up with 2 of the 30 inch 12's and my sporting clays improved. But i still always drag out the 26 inch Repro
every time i hunt, and it connects impressively. . Old habits die hard for this old timer..

[Randy G Roberts]

Is it practical or emotional? Sometimes it seems to be what’s popular at the time and like any fad tastes change. And 5 to 6 feet seems a bit extreme but I wouldn’t be surprised to see Randy Roberts running the sporting course with such a gun now that he knows they exist.

John I think it's a bit of both. Todays SC targets just keep getting further and further away as target setters try to dupe a shooting fraternity that continues to improve. The distances we shoot at now days certainly lend themselves to longer barreled guns. Plenty of tight targets to go around as well but I have never felt handicapped with a 32" or 34" gun. Emotional, you betcha. I like the long barreled guns for aesthetic and practical reasons. They just look cool and racy to my eye and I am drawn to them. While not a straight stock guy I will admit that a straight stock with long barrels is really svelte to my eyes. I won't enjoy shooting it as much as a PG but it looks way cool.

I'm not sure that I would call this a fad any longer. It may have been a fad when the SC game was in its infancy but it's here to stay now IMO. Shooters like the long barrels on the SC course. I am not sure when the last time I saw anything under 30" on the course, most are 32". Granted they are modern guns but I believe this preference will carry over to the SxS market when these boys go shopping. Let's not forget the hunters either. Folks have come to appreciate those long barrels in the dove fields, upland coverts, prairies, duck blinds and just about any place they can be used.

Gotta go, Polaris is calling me back. Seems I stumped their engineers when I requested a gun caddy for 60" barrels :) :bigbye:

[Rick Losey]

one thing to remember is that in those early days the quality of black powder was variable

a longer barrel allowed a more complete burn and in those days, velocity

Fowlers aside - the longest original flintlock rifle I am aware of had a 54" barrel - add the stock length and the shooter would need to find a tree stump to load from - I actually saw a guy cleaning a reproduction of it - he was standing on a picnic table :rotf:

please excuse the glare - this duck hunting print was originally done about 1745- this reprint was done when the artist's son joined him in business so third to last quarter of the 1700's - the gun looks to me to be about as long s the hunter is tall. most original fowlers I have handled had barrels in the 42 to 48 inch range

[Daryl Corona]

I agree with Randy and Reggie on their points but for me it's balance first and good triggers next. Way back when I shot a lot of 26" and 28" guns at sporting clays they were still choked M/F and I did reasonably well with them. But they balanced well and they fit well enough to get by. But as I got older and hopefully smarter I found that longer barrels did help and that the fundamentals of good shooting didn't change. The longer barrels helped with consistency. There is something magical about a straight grip smallbore that just might make me shoot a tad better. Not always but it doesn't matter. They are just cool.

[Craig Larter]

In the clay target shooting sports the target flies a predictable path, a pre-mounted gun is allowed and the break point can be decided in advance. Long barrels and a steady deliberate swing is best at that game. Hunting birds is a different story. As a bird's flight path becomes more unpredictable shorter barrels work because the swing is shorter and taken quicker. Ducks fly a more predicable path versus quail. I really wouldn't want to hunt wild quail with my 32" duck gun but it works fine for sporting clays. Just like my 26" 20ga Fox works great on quail, but it's more difficult to shoot sporting clays or ducks with. Just one of the reasons to own a bunch of Parkers.

[todd allen]

I'm in the mood for a stupid analogy, so here goes:
Long barrels on a shotgun are like long legs on a woman. Covers longer distances easier, and looks good doing it.

Okay, I'll duck now.
:corn:

[Garry L Gordon]

I'm in the mood for a stupid analogy, so here goes:
Long barrels on a shotgun are like long legs on a woman. Covers longer distances easier, and looks good doing it.

Okay, I'll duck now.
:corn:

:rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf:

[Randy G Roberts]

I'm in the mood for a stupid analogy, so here goes:
Long barrels on a shotgun are like long legs on a woman. Covers longer distances easier, and looks good doing it.

Okay, I'll duck now.
:corn:

Never pictured you for a brain surgeon, my apologies Todd, you're obviously gifted. I'll buy you a beer in Vegas.

[Kevin McCormack]

I shot international trap (bunker) competitively for 10 years using a completely stock (unaltered) Browning Superposed Pigeon Grade Lightning Trap, long tang flat knob with 30" barrels and narrow (7MM) rib weighing 8lb. 6oz. For me that particular configuration proved perfect; I tried 32" guns a couple of times but found just that short increase in barrel length put the gun's dynamic handling balance out of my control - when I'd reach the end of a fast swing on a severe angle quartering target, the gun would tend to roll off my cheek and take off on its own path. Being of medium height with shorter vs. longer arms, the control of the longer barreled gun became a distraction, then a struggle. In my case, shorter was better.

[Stan Hillis]

A man can get used to shooting just about any length barrels and eventually shoot them well, IMO. However, there are built in advantages to barrel lengths for certain applications. For serious sporting clays, where one or two targets separates the winner from the also-ran, it is my opinion that barrels in the 32" range, on fixed breech guns, can help you gain that extra bird or two, with today's target presentations.

I absolutely love 32" barrels on well balanced guns for sporting, doves and ducks. My "stable" testifies to that belief.

[Phil Yearout]

28” works for me: long enough for the job, short enough to easily get out of the truck :)

[George Davis]

Interesting question!!
I'm 6 ft 3 inches which I believe height and arm length has influence on barrel length. So here's my thoughts:
Skeet-28 inches with 12 gauge however sub-gauges 30 inches as lighter guns can make barrels whippy
Bunker, Helice, Wobble- 32 inches
Sporting Clays- 30 or 32 depending on course layout
Early Hunting on the prairie over pointing dogs- 28 inches, late season 30
Mearns Quail-24-26-28, I prefer 26
Desert Quail-28 inches
I've never hunter Ruffed Grouse but have trip booked next year and will bring 26 and 28 inch 16 gauge guns.
I use only fixed choke shotguns

[Garry L Gordon]

Interesting question!!
I'm 6 ft 3 inches which I believe height and arm length has influence on barrel length. So here's my thoughts:
Skeet-28 inches with 12 gauge however sub-gauges 30 inches as lighter guns can make barrels whippy
Bunker, Helice, Wobble- 32 inches
Sporting Clays- 30 or 32 depending on course layout
Early Hunting on the prairie over pointing dogs- 28 inches, late season 30
Mearns Quail-24-26-28, I prefer 26
Desert Quail-28 inches
I've never hunter Ruffed Grouse but have trip booked next year and will bring 26 and 28 inch 16 gauge guns.
I use only fixed choke shotguns

George, I like your barrel length choices for hunting. However, I wouldn't know a wobble from a bobble. Be careful on the grouse hunting...it can be quite addictive (And watch out for those timberdoodles. You may come up with a new set of barrel length and gun balance criteria for them.)

Thanks for contributing to our discussion.

[charlie cleveland]

i like long barrels just because.....but short barrels for bird hunting like quail and such....would not mind haveing a 36 inch 20 ga for ducks....charlie

[Garry L Gordon]

i like long barrels just because.....but short barrels for bird hunting like quail and such....would not mind haveing a 36 inch 20 ga for ducks....charlie

I hope Santa brings you that 20, Charlie. Merry Christmas!

[Mike Koneski]

I prefer longer barrels on my clays guns. 32" works best for me. Since we can't add barrel length, depending on which event I'm shooting the gun might be 30" or 28". I have a few 26" guns that I carry bird hunting. It's all about feel and a smooth swing. On clay targets those longer barrels just swing so nicely onto the targets. If the gun is in that 7lb 12oz to 9lb range, that's even better. The weight helps with the smooth swing and reduces felt recoil on those tournament days where I'm shooting 6 events or more. I like 26" and 28" in the uplands. They carry a little easier. The barrel length doesn't hurt my "body count". If you put the muzzles at the right place, barrel length and choke are irrelevant.

[Mike Franzen]

The longer bbls give me a bit more confidence when im shooting. Maybe it’s because it puts me a little closer to my target. The longer bbls give the gun a sleeker look imho. A 30 or 32 inch bbl on a twenty gauge Parker is the epitome of gun design.

[Bill Murphy]

My 34" Parkers are about the limit of "sleekness". My 36" guns are eight gauges and not so sleek and don't handle all that well. I think it's time to put them out to pasture. My 34" 20 gauge SC is about the epitome of sleekness.

















'

[Mike Koneski]

Bill, those 8g guns with 34"-36" barrels and weight of 12+ lbs are not conducive to a smooth swing!! :rotf: It takes a lot of schwoop to get them going.

[Randy G Roberts]

Gaucho had his opinion on long barrels. If you believe everything he wrote the 34" 8 pound guns " are only for large strong men, no others need ever to expect to derive any benefit".....:rotf:

[John Allen]

Reggie and Randy have touched to something I have believed for years. You have to match the barrel length to your body size. I am 5-8 and have tried 32" and 34" guns. They just do not balance for me. They also react slower for me. Now I understand that has to do with my reaction time personally, but I am quicker and smoother with a 28" gun than any other. That goes for side x sides and over/unders.

[todd allen]

Never pictured you for a brain surgeon, my apologies Todd, you're obviously gifted. I'll buy you a beer in Vegas.

Thanks Randy. I'll take you up on that!
:cheers::

[James L. Martin]

Talk about sleekness here's my 12ga 34" VH

[Reggie Bishop]

James I like it!

[Daryl Corona]

James, what frame?

[Stan Hillis]

This is something I have mentioned before on other forums when discussing barrel length preferences, and is only an observation that I made for myself. If it applies to others it may make some sense to them.

Whan a taller person, i.e. a person with longer arms, places the front hand on the forearm and barrels they normally do so at a location farther away from the action. This little difference of a inch or so increases the leverage that one has to swing the gun, regardless the direction of movement. It's like changing the moment of inertia. Greater leverage, by having the front hand farther out, has the effect of making the gun easier to swing. The opposite happens when the hand is placed farther back, or closer to the action.

I believe this is one reason why taller people prefer longer barreled shotguns more often than people of lesser height. I'm 6'2" and consider 28" barrels short. My dedicated quail/woodcock double has 28" barrels, but the best woodcock day I ever had was when shooting a 30" barreled FAIR Verona 28 ga. O/U gun.

I shoot .410s at doves a good deal. Most of them are 5 1/2 to 6 lb.+, 30" guns. One of them is a 28" barreled S x S that weighs less than 5 lbs. I can shoot it well if i remember to place my front hand farther back towards the action than I usually do. It has a dramatic effect on swing moment, IMO.

Different horses for different courses as they say.

[Mike Koneski]

Stan, that hand placement on the fore-end is one way to help shooters learn to break more targets. Lead hand placement is important. It doesn’t “drive” the gun, pivoting from the waist (tank turret) drives the gun. That lead hand provides balance and control. 👍🏻

[Stan Hillis]

I agree, Mike. But having it farther out the barrels does affect the swing moment. I probably did a poor job of explaining it. Thanks for the clarification.

[Randy G Roberts]

Sliding the hand back on the forend is also an old sporting clays trick used for tight fast targets that require a lot of gun speed, works good with long barrels. It also makes tower shots and the rare shot well below your feet much more comfortable. Rare unless you are shooting at the Rock I suppose, right Mikey ! :)

[James L. Martin]

Daryl it's a 2 frame from 1913. Arthur DuBray was the salesman. Chokes are full and full patterned with 7 1/2 shot,Straight grip, full comb,no safety with 4lb trigger pull. 2 5/8 chambers, 8lbs and 14 3/4 - 1 3/8 - 2. All per letter. It's been restocked at least twice, now it's close at 14 15/16 - 1 9/16 -1 3/4 and it's 8lb 3oz. Chokes are .030 and .036 with bores at .730 and .731.

[Mike Koneski]

Sliding the hand back on the forend is also an old sporting clays trick used for tight fast targets that require a lot of gun speed, works good with long barrels. It also makes tower shots and the rare shot well below your feet much more comfortable. Rare unless you are shooting at the Rock I suppose, right Mikey ! :)

BINGO!! 😎

[Bill Murphy]

Mike and Stan have explained or, more correctly, debunked the old wives tales about long barrels and the problems that shooters experience when shooting them. My old quote seems to have some credence here. "Learn to shoot". I shoot Parkers with barrels from 17" to 36" and have difficulty or little difficulty shooting my average with any of them. Your success may vary.

[Mike Koneski]

Bill, a 17” Parker? Where did that come from?

[Bill Murphy]

It's my BH ten World's Fair gun. I have installed a set of #3 frame 32" ten gauge Titanic barrels until I can get an ATF exemption for the 17" set.

[todd allen]

Like many here, I have also shot competitively, and in regards to gun types, barrel lengths, LOPs, etc, have just let the gun(s) lead me to the right choice for the specific discipline.
The vast majority of my career was box birds, and a couple of guns evolved into winners for me.
The Perazzi P-gun was the "get it done" top choice, but there were a couple of Parkers that served as well. In Particular, a 30" Vent Rib GHE pigeon gun that was owned and used extensively (and modified extensively) by a fairly well known pigeon shooter from yesteryear.
Around 2001 I started shooting registered sporting clays. My first registered shoot was at the Nationals.
Started in C, and worked my way up to AA, before the crash of 2008 sent my money and assets into the wood chipper.
Anyway, the hands down best clays gun (for me) was a custom built Beretta AL 391 trap gun, with a 30" barrel.
Not to plug an Italian on a Parker site, but the long barrel was incredibly effective on the long complicated targets that you HAVE TO be able to break in order to win a big shoot, which I did.
Never shot a 100 straight in SCs, but did manage a 99x100 once, and did make HOA at a major shoot, that included Jon Kruger, and approx another 40 Master Class shooters.
A 98x100 on an extremely complicated course with some targets break points at 60 plus yards out. 300 shooters, so no pressure ;-)
In my opinion, and I do have an opinion on this, long complicated targets are easier to handle with long barrels, guided by a light easy input on the forend.
You break these targets with your sight picture, in addition to your gun movement. This, IMHO, is just a lot easier to execute with long barrels. Your mileage might vary.
If I can work up the courage, I might post some pics of the GHE, for S&Gs.
(Shoots & Giggles)
Just to show what a highly modified Parker pigeon gun looks like.
I will post a NSFW so that children and small animals are not emotionally damaged.
:rotf:

[Stan Hillis]

I'd love to see that Parker live bird gun, Todd.

[todd allen]

I'd love to see that Parker live bird gun, Todd.
It's up. Viewer discretion advised!
:rotf:

[James L. Martin]

Todd, I too shot a pair of Beretta's autos at sporting clays for a few years and did very well ,they were 30" 390's . That long sighting plane worked great and still does.

[Mike Koneski]

Well said Todd. BTW, NSFW!! Now that’s funny!! BWAHAHAHAHA!!

[Chris Pope]

I am definitely not an expert shooter so have to ask. Todd, what does "... guided by a light easy input on the forend..." mean? A soft grip and less aggressive swing? I ask because I'm not too bad at close in shooting but past 35-40 yds forget it, I'm terrible.

[todd allen]

Chris, a light grip on the forend for starters. A tight grip on the forend means tensed muscles, which can lead to spastic jerky movements.
On long targets you need to slow down, and smooth out, which comes from a light easy input from the lead hand.
This is what works for me. That, and I don't swing through, or paste out targets, especially when they are long and complicated. Shoot the correct sight picture with barrels moving at target speed, and the target breaks.
Most misses that are not simple miscalculations are caused by a spasm or flinch in your movement. Some misses are just target panic. A relaxed light touch minimizes this.
Basically: Target speed - gun speed - same speed.

[John Dallas]

Seems to me that I read somewhere that most targets are missed behind. More lead (Distance, not metal)

[Randy G Roberts]

Seems to me that I read somewhere that most targets are missed behind. More lead (Distance, not metal)

I would think that's a fair assumption John. That's what normally happens when we try to gauge leads and end up with to much muzzle awareness. Look at the barrels for that last millisecond check before sending it to make sure they are just where you want them and they will come to a screeching halt thus we shoot behind. Somewhere I read not to long ago where the author said there are 2 ways to stop the barrels from moving:
1) run them into a cedar post
2) take your eyes off the target and look at them

By gosh he may be right :)

[John Dallas]

Remember - A shot string is 4-5' long. If you're too far in front, the shot tail may help you out. It sure won't do any good if you're behind to start with

[Mike Koneski]

When we’re working with newer shooters, they tend to be overly cautious of swing or overly focused on the muzzle. They are shooting behind crossers. We’ll tell them to make a conscious effort to “miss in front”. 9 out of 10 times on the next shot they hit the crosser. They then realize what lead means and they begin to break more and more birds. Personally, I try to teach pull-away to students. It is the most useful method to break any target consistently. Other methods do work, some better than others, but not as well or as easily learned at the pull-away.

Most important thing is to get out and shoot as often as possible. Experiment with different methods. As one breaks birds the mind will remember the bird-barrel relationship and breaking birds will come easier.

[todd allen]

The shot string analogy reminded me of the time when we were shooting a course somewhere, don't remember where, but there was a new shooter on the squad who was a little nervous about a long crosser.
I told him the shot string was 12 feet long at that range, (I really had no idea) and that he needed to be far enough in front that he would kill the target with the last couple of pellets.
It worked, and he started hitting some.
My buddy (the scientist) who overheard the conversation brought it up later, and told me in inches how far the target traveled compared to the time it took for the shot string to pass.
It was like an inch or so. I said I truly didn't know, but it planted the seed, and got the kid hitting the long ones.

[John Davis]

I will not venture to opine on Sporting Clays. But when it comes to trap, I'm going to say that virtually every shot I miss (excluding the ones where I have some crazy flinch) is due to picking my head up. Every now and then I'll pull the trigger before I get to the target but that is pretty rare. If I concentrate on keeping my head down on the stock and focus on the target, I'm going to have a good round. Maybe even win some bling.

[todd allen]

I think that whenever an experienced shooter misses a target, it's because your mind or body causes an unconscious unplanned movement that interrupts your planned move to the target.
A couple of years back, I had a long conversation with Jon Kruger about this, and we delved deep into the psychology behind hitting and missing.
I wish he were a member here so that he could share his knowledge with us.
Kruger was an absolutely incredible shooter and competitor. I learned a lot from that conversation. That's where I first heard the term "target panic"
An old friend of mine who makes money with a shotgun, and used to be a shotgun coach told me once that when he steps in the box he goes through a 3 stage mental ritual he calls:
Set Up
Settle
See
If you do these three things consistently, your body will follow your commands more closely.

[Garry L Gordon]

This thread has been a lot of fun, and much fodder for thought. I'd still like to know if anyone has seen or handled one of those 5 or 6 foot guns.

And, why is it that when I "see" the bird (these are birds, not clay targets, mind you), I generally hit the bird?

Both eyes open, a gun that points where I'm looking, and really seeing the bird, is the formula for success for me...on very wild birds that don't wait for me to say "pull."

Thanks to those who have contributed. As always, I learned a great deal from my hard core shooter friends.

[Mike Koneski]

Garry, we have a saying here, “Sometimes it’s better to be lucky than good.” :rotf::rotf::rotf: