More Drop, please

[John Dallas]

I have a 32"DHE which operantly was set up as a trap or live bird gun, and as a result doesn't have much drop. I want to use it more for clays shooting. The gun is too nice to start bending or shaving the stock. Any suggestions on some sort of fairy dust I could sprinkle on it to give me more drop?

[Garry L Gordon]

Yup. Sell it to one of us who floats the target above the bead.:)

But seriously, if you practice floating the target, you'll get the hang of it...especially to keep a nice long-legged Parker.

[John Dallas]

Yep, but after 70 years of shooting at the target, it's hard, real hard to change my style depending on which gun I'm shooting. Best I can do is to smash my face on the stock

[Garry L Gordon]

Yep, but after 70 years of shooting at the target, it's hard, real hard to change my style depending on which gun I'm shooting. Best I can do is to smash my face on the stock

I get it, John. I can't shoot low stocked guns to save my life, at least not at birds that require quick shooting. I'm not sure how you could make more drop. Most of the "additive" measures I'm aware of are for creating less.

If it's a nice gun you don't want to get rid of, you could shoot it with me and probably still be the best shot.:rotf:

I cringe when I read GBE's account of sanding down his "Little Purdey," but it worked for him and the gun still looked great.

I've committed to not buying guns that don't have higher stock drops. I've saved a great deal of money not buying guns that made me drool otherwise when I saw them. I say I've committed to that, but my wife says I should BE committed for buying too many guns.

Good luck with your dilemma.

[Reggie Bishop]

If it’s a 20 gauge there is no hope for it. And I would be glad to help you rid yourself of it.

[John Dallas]

By puting in spacers in front of the butt plate, extending the LOP, more drop results. Unfortunately, I probably would require a 36" LOP to get the desired drop. At 6'3",I can tolerate longer LOP's but 36" is more than I can handle

[Dan Steingraber]

If it has a pad you could easily change the pitch to lower barrels without touching the stock.

[Phil Yearout]

If it has a pad you could easily change the pitch to lower barrels without touching the stock.

That's what I was gonna suggest: a slip-on pad to lengthen LOP or a tapered spacer to change the pitch.

[edgarspencer]

Yep, but after 70 years of shooting at the target, it's hard, real hard to change my style depending on which gun I'm shooting. Best I can do is to smash my face on the stock

I'm in the same camp. I've tried floating, and while it works on the first clay, the second target on simo pairs just sails on. I shoot lots of different guns, and doing anything different to what my instinct tells me to do on one day, won't work the next day. I've decided to bend my 30" 28ga, and the man I trust to do it is all tied up with a bunch of malicious ATF auditors. I'm like Ralphy waiting for his Ovaltine decoder.

[Drew Hause]

John: it is a desirable gun with significant value, but it is not for you. At this point in our shooting life we're all probably dealing with enough frustrations...vision, reaction time, loss of muscle mass, body parts that don't work like they once did :(
Trade it or sell it and get one that fits your shooting style. This is supposed to be fun brother ;)

Simply raising the front bead (yeah I know we don't look at it) will lower your POI, but if your sight picture is firmly imprinted in looking straight down the rib, that may not work.

[John Dallas]

At my age, I'm not trying to get better - Just get worse at the slowest rate possible

[Bill Murphy]

A 32" piece of 1/4 inch or 5/16" steel stock of the desired height attached to the rib will bring your eye into a higher point without changing the point of impact. It's up to you to figure out how to mate it to your rib and attach it. Should be a piece of cake. By the way, that's roughly how Parker Brothers installed retrofit ventilated ribs on top of solid ribs.

[John Dallas]

It's a Josh Lowensteiner gun which is too nice to muck up

[Garry L Gordon]

At my age, I'm not trying to get better - Just get worse at the slowest rate possible

Now that there is funny — demoralizingly so. I feel your pain (pains?).:rotf:

[Stan Hillis]

John, as another who cannot tolerate mashing my cheek into the stock, or floating a bird, I'd move it on and find one stocked more suitably. I just cannot shoot a shotgun with less than 2 3/8" at heel, and 2 1/2" is better for me. I don't shoot trap, either, so "built in lead" is not something I need.

However, if the gun really wants to stay with you :rotf: one consideration is having another buttstock built for it with your dims and saving the original for the next owner, to preserve the value. It's an expensive option, but an option nonetheless.

[John Dallas]

I will be dead before I could get a good stock made by the right guy

[John Dallas]

New thought. Anyone got a "regular" stock for a 2 frame?

[edgarspencer]

This thread is making me feel better, not at shooting, but knowing I am not alone.
I get what Bill is saying and, at least theoretically, it would serve the same purpose as lowering the heel. A golf Tee stuck on the front, painted flat black, except for the white tip would weigh less.
When I'm shooting my best, it's with a red headed stepchild no one wanted. It came missing it's front bead, or it was loose; I don't remember which. I took it off because I didn't want to loose it, and the only reason I put it back on was that I was tired of everyone telling me it wasn't there. "How the hell do you hit anything without a front sight?" usually said as though the shot string was going to make a hard right upon exiting the muzzle. The only thing I want to see is the bird, and now that I've got glasses that correct for an astigmatism, I only see one bird.

[Bill Murphy]

Harry, I just looked at that gun and I am in love, but 32" barrels would seal the deal.

[allen newell]

John, I have the same problem with my 20 ga Parker Repro with 28 inch barrels
Shoot too Damm high for me and I just can't bring myself after all these years to change the way I naturally bring my guns up to my shoulder etc. It's time to get rid of it and replace it with a 20 or 28 ga that fits me like my other shotguns. I'll be posting it in the for sale section soon. Just need to figure out how to post pics.

[Dean Romig]

Allen - Get a Repro 28 gauge. I know you probably already have one but you need another in a different configuration.





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[allen newell]

Dean, my 28 ga Repro has 26 inch barrels. What other configuration are you thinking? I do like the 28..

[Stan Hillis]

The larger front bead definitely will make it shoot lower. I have done this myself on a shotgun that had a plain barrel, and no rib or front "ramp" for the bead. Even though I don't ever focus on the bead it's in my field of unfocused view and I'm aware of it. When this method was suggested to me I had serious doubts but ordered a couple larger beads in the right thread size and tried it anyway. It worked perfectly. Brought the pattern down several inches at 25 yards.

[Mike Koneski]

If it was mine I’d lower the comb. We’ve seen many entries in the records of guns being returned for new dimensions on the stocks. If it fits you’ll shoot it well. Make it fit and shoot it, that’s what these guns were made for. Last thing I’d recommend is “learning to float the bird”. It’s not a consistent method.

I actually just bought a 32” 12g VH on a 3 frame that was a bit too high. Took the comb down and now that gun turns them into diesel smoke because it shoots where I’m looking.

[John Dallas]

Ain't gonna go that way. When I bought the gun, it was a 98% piece. I bastardized it by opening up the F/F chokes to IC/Mod. Sure, purists would have my head, but a lot more folk would like to a more flexible configuration IMHO. Financially, your suggestion, I think, would be a bath. Money spend to have the comb lowered, then the deterioration of market value says to me "No ****ing way"

[Mike Koneski]

You can work the comb yourself. Not a difficult job. If you want to shoot it and it does not shoot properly for you, I’d sell it. You already opened the chokes so why not lower the comb. A nice looking gun that doesn’t fit won’t shoot where it needs to and is better off going down the road.

[edgarspencer]

Here's there problem with us old guys shooting high stocked guns.
The RedLine is our 'sight line', from eyeball to Bird (black) X

The Black line is the gun's barrel axis. We are looking, (red line)eyeball to the bird along a path which isn't parallel to the barrel axis (black line)

If we 'could learn' to "float the bird", we would look at the imaginary bird at the
Blue X. That's the Green line.

Changing the length of pull, or Pitch Angle will change how the butt contacts our shoulder, but it won't bring that red line down to parallel the black line.

[Mike Koneski]

That is correct Edgar. Floating a bird is like using a sustained lead (maintained lead) on every target. It’s a method that works and sometimes, depending on the shooter and target, it can work well. Sometimes being the key word. You have to be right on, head-hands-eyes working in synch perfectly and seeing the bird-barrel relationship exactly. One day you can crush everything with that method. Next day you may be a bit distracted or tired. Maybe you have eye fatigue and that method just will not hit a bull in the ass with a shovel if you’re standing right next to him. It’s tough to maintain consistency that way.

[Stan Hillis]

Floating a bird or target is just unnatural to a shooter. If a person learned to shoot a high patterning shotgun that way, and never picked up another gun, it would still yield inconsistent results. I had a dear friend who shot that way. He was a dove shooter, quail hunter and several of us began shooting sporting clays together. We all wanted desperately to improve our game at sporting, and we did, but Charles plateaued out in the high 60s. One of our friends tried to tell Charles that floating the bird was part of his problem but he adamantly insisted he'd always shot that way and it wasn't an issue. To prove his point he pointed his gun to the top of a pine tree and easily knocked a pine cone off the limb. He looked at his buddy and said "See!". His buddy said "Yep, it works for you, almost 70% of the time.". Charles realized it then, and hung his head.

[Garry L Gordon]

Please don’t think I’m arguing—I’m not. You all have more shots fired (experience) than I, but in 60 plus years of shooting, and keeping records for the last 40, I’m okay with shooting 65% on wild quail. It’s natural to me to float the bird and I know when I really “see” the bird, I’ll generally hit it.

Besides, someone has to own those high stocked, straight/splinter two trigger guns. :corn::)

[John Dallas]

One last try

New thought. Anyone got a "regular" stock for a 2 frame taking up space in your shop?

[edgarspencer]

My brain kept on thinking about the idea of decreasing the pitch having an effect on lowering the barrels. I may have been too quick to believe this wasn't so, because I wasn't considering the recoil effect. If the tapered "shim", for the lack of a better word, made the toe contact space less firm, then perhaps the recoil allows the toe-to-shoulder gap close up, effectively letting the gun to drop, instantaneously.
While this might work, it won't help me on the gun I most want the additional drop in, because that gun has a skeleton butt plate. I could put a piece of carpet inside a slip-on, just at the heel, but the guy I shoot with doesn't have the patience to watch me messing about.

[William Davis]

Could be if it’s used trap only, high gun locked it tight like the modern gun trap shooters, you can shoot it as is. However I had the same issue with a nice 32 inch VH & ended up selling the gun

William

[George Davis]

I shot Helice (ZZ) yesterday at Tucson Trap and Skeet and one of our groups recently purchased B Rizzoni side by side. Beautiful shotgun but he needed more drop, he had a small shim insert between recoil pad and top of the stock. He showed us photos from the pattern board pre and post what a difference. He differently has more drop.

[edgarspencer]

If you look at modern, higher end, Sporting Clays guns. You will see the trend to higher combs. This. by itself, doesn't help older shooters, but these new, High comb guns are now pitched, such that the butt is dead perpendicular to the comb.

[John Dallas]

Harry 2 3/4" would work. Thanks

Scott I interpret your description as a change in pitch. Haven't heard of anyone having a substantial improvement with a pitch change

[edgarspencer]

This is my Runge - DelGrego upgraded CHE 28ga. It was commissioned by Shelly Gitman. It was built using a VHE 30" 28ga, also straight stocked, with Single trigger. Gitman was known to have commissioned several A1 Special guns, but my theory is he chose a CHE because Parker only made one 30" CHE 28. Puglisi measured the drop at 2 1/2", but it actually measures 2 5/16". Several people, whose opinions I value, feel that the wrist will move well in bending, and the smith I intend to use has a good track record. I'm hoping to get an additional 5/16" drop. the pitch change will go in the direction those who believe Pitch can also effect lowering the POI.
Photo credit Puglisi Gun Emporium.

[Garry L Gordon]

This is my Runge - DelGrego upgraded CHE 28ga. It was commissioned by Shelly Gitman. It was built using a VHE 30" 28ga, also straight stocked, with Single trigger. Gitman was known to have commissioned several A1 Special guns, but my theory is he chose a CHE because Parker only made one 30" CHE 28. Puglisi measured the drop at 2 1/2", but it actually measures 2 5/16". Several people, whose opinions I value, feel that the wrist will move well in bending, and the smith I intend to use has a good track record. I'm hoping to get an additional 5/16" drop. the pitch change will go in the direction those who believe Pitch can also effect lowering the POI.
Photo credit Puglisi Gun Emporium.

That’s a beautiful gun… that I could miss birds with (but with those dimensions, I think not).

[Aaron Beck]

Does all this mean the "modern dimension" cool aid doesnt taste so good anymore?