Ithaca NID 28-gauge

[Dave Noreen]

Have any NID 28-gauges surfaced with long (30- or 32-inch) barrels? Most I've observed are 26-inch and a handful of 28-inch.

[Stan Hoover]

Most NID 28's have 26" barrels from my observation although I know where 2 are with 28" barrels.

I've never encountered any 32" NID 28 gauges and never a 30", except the NID being offered by CSMC as a 2 barrel set, 26" 410 & 30" 28 gauge. The 30" 28 gauge barrels do look like Ithaca assembled barrels by the markings but there's also some features that definitely are questionable.

I would definitely see them as having been added at some point and not very well done.

[James Rhodenizer]

My grade 2 has 28" barrels, I have never seen longer barrels. There are people on this forum that would know, I am sure you will get an answer.

[Bill Davis]

I started chasing 28 gauge NID’s in the early-mid 70’s. I’ve owned over 25 and seen/examined numerous others. I’ve never seen or heard of barrels longer than 28 inches long! Every field grade, but one, had 26 inch barrels. I had a number of grade 2’s and all but one had 28 inch barrels. I had 4 of the 10 grade 4’s and 2 had 26 inch barrels and 2 had 28 inch barrels. One of the grade 4’s was a 2 barrel set and both sets were 28 inches. A grade 5 I had was a 28 incher as was another 5 that I examined in the 90’s. I’ve always felt that higher grades were more often ordered with 28 inch barrels and vent ribs were prevalent! These are simply assumptions on my part based on decades of looking and observing.

[Stan Hoover]

While not a 28 gauge, this is a 410 with 28” barrels, fully optioned

[CraigThompson]

While not a 28 gauge, this is a 410 with 28” barrels, fully optioned

Vent rib AND a single trigger :cool:

[CraigThompson]

My grade 2 has 28" barrels, I have never seen longer barrels. There are people on this forum that would know, I am sure you will get an answer.

Did you have that gun at The Rabbit this past summer for Jents Vintagers get together ?

[James Rhodenizer]

Yes, Craig, that is the gun I was shooting.

[Dave Noreen]

When the 28-gauge was added to the NID offerings in the first 1932 Ithaca catalog it was offered with 26- or 28-inch barrels. That remained the case through the 1939 Ithaca catalog. Beginning with the 1940 Ithaca catalog they only list 26-inch barrels for the 28-gauge. Long ago at one of The Vintage Cup events at Orvis Sandanona, Steve Barnett had a NID No. 7E 28-gauge on his tables. I snapped a few pics and while I never measured them, the tag lists 25-inch barrels?!?

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Ithaca never listed barrels longer than 30-inch for the 20-gauge NID, but I've seen several 32-inch 20-gauges.

When the 28-gauge was added to Ithaca doubles in the Flues era, the catalogs list 24- and 26-inch barrels up thru the July 1919 Ithaca catalog. From the December 1919 Ithaca catalog through the 1925 they only list 26-inch. For 22 years I've owned a Flues No. 1 Special 28-gauge with 30-inch Cockerill Steel barrels --

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Info from Walter showed it was shipped 05/25/1915 to F.K. Pierce.

[CraigThompson]

I’ve had an NID 20 in my hands that was 32” with vent rib barrels .

[Reggie Bishop]

I’ve had an NID 20 in my hands that was 32” with vent rib barrels .

The Indiana mafia is reported to have one, at least one. Maybe just a rumor.

[CraigThompson]

The Indiana mafia is reported to have one, at least one. Maybe just a rumor.

One that was in my hands didn’t belong to The Godfather’s of Indiana .

[Dave Noreen]

In 1969 as a poor Navy E-3 I made my first pilgrimage to Kerr's Sport Shop in Beverly Hills. In the display counter in the gun department they had a fully optioned NID No. 7E, 20-gauge, 32-inch, but that was before I started keeping track of serial numbers.

In the Fall 2014 Julia's Auction they had NID 457439 a fully optioned No. 7E, 32-inch, 20-gauge, which I suspect was the gun I saw in 1969 as it had originally shipped to Tufts-Lyons Arms Co. in Los Angeles in 1930.

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It sold for $77,625 at the Julia's Auction. Those extra two-inches of barrel cost a lot. In the October 2016 Julia's Auction, 30-inch fully optioned 20-gauge No. 7E, 457447 went for $20,700.

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In the Fall 2017 Julia's Auction, 457466, No. 7E 20-gauge with 30- and 26-inch barrels didn't make reserve. Three long barrel No. 7E 20-gauges all in the 457xxx range. My No. 4E 30-inch 20-gauge is also in the 457xxx range.

[Randy G Roberts]

The Indiana mafia is reported to have one, at least one. Maybe just a rumor.

Not a rumor Reggie, somehow I have managed to find 2 of these. Both are 20 gauge 4E with 32" VR Barrels. One will end up in PA with Mr. Ithaca himself some day :)

Dave, if you are tracking serial numbers shoot me a PM and I can get them to you if you have interest. I believe one is 454XXX and the other is in the 455 range.

As for now off to the woods we go :bigbye:

[Reggie Bishop]

We need to take inventory of long barrel 20s!! Hope your hunt is a success!!

[Keith Sirmans]

A friend has one he does not shoot. I will have him measure it

[CraigThompson]

Not a rumor Reggie, somehow I have managed to find 2 of these. Both are 20 gauge 4E with 32" VR Barrels. One will end up in PA with Mr. Ithaca himself some day :)

Dave, if you are tracking serial numbers shoot me:

And The Godfather of Southern Indiana has spoken :whistle:

[Stan Hoover]

I just cannot forget that 32” NID Grade 3 20 that was advertised for sale for less than 1 day, I wonder where it went?
(for sale about 2-3 years back by Firearms Collectors)


Maybe someone here scooped it up quickly?

If so, would you be so kind to share pictures?

Stan

[Dave Noreen]

In the Fall 2017 Julia's Auction, 457466, No. 7E 20-gauge with 30- and 26-inch barrels didn't make reserve. Three long barrel No. 7E 20-gauges all in the 457xxx range. My No. 4E 30-inch 20-gauge is also in the 457xxx range.

Been thumbing through the old Julia's Auction catalog archive and found a fourth No. 7E 20-gauge, also in the 457xxx range, 457510, a fully optioned 30-incher that went for $28,750 in the Spring 2008 auction --

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Ten years ago, a fully optioned 32-inch No. 4E 20-gauge went for less than ten grand --

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[Randy G Roberts]

I just cannot forget that 32” NID Grade 3 20 that was advertised for sale for less than 1 day, I wonder where it went?
(for sale about 2-3 years back by Firearms Collectors)


Maybe someone here scooped it up quickly?

If so, would you be so kind to share pictures?

Stan

Stanley, I was almost over that gun and you bought it up again. :banghead::banghead:

[Stan Hoover]

Yeah,
I’m still blaming you for noticing it and not being quick enough to buy it:crying:

If it was in Indiana, at least I could sleep better at night knowing where it was at:)

[Randy G Roberts]

Yeah,
I’m still blaming you for noticing it and not being quick enough to buy it:crying:

If it was in Indiana, at least I could sleep better at night knowing where it was at:)

Honestly I still think of that one from time to time. What a gun.

[Ian Civco]

Surprisingly, there is even an interest in Ithaca shotguns. Definitely, “the poor man’s Parker”. Maybe the interest only even relates to small bore shotguns?

[Bill Murphy]

I believe the one Craig mentions handling is probably the same one I found at Winter Vegas more than a decade ago. Maybe he would describe it and I will know if it's the same one.

[Stan Hoover]

Honestly I still think of that one from time to time. What a gun.

Did you perhaps record that serial #?

[Randy G Roberts]

Did you perhaps record that serial #?

Sorry but I did not.

[CraigThompson]

I believe the one Craig mentions handling is probably the same one I found at Winter Vegas more than a decade ago. Maybe he would describe it and I will know if it's the same one.

No this came from someone in Virginia and was a field grade if memory serves .

[Dean Romig]

I bought a 24" 28 gauge Grade 2 for Kathy but it had too much drop for her so down the road it went. I never could find out who it was ordered by or for whom. Al I know is that it was ordered for Mrs. E.W.B. whomever she might have been.

.

[Kevin McCormack]

Mrs. Edward Bennett Williams, wife of the lawyer to Preston Marshall, of the (former) Washington Redskins?

[Randy G Roberts]

No this came from someone in Virginia and was a field grade if memory serves .

An NID Craig?

[CraigThompson]

An NID Craig?

Yes

[Dave Noreen]

How did we get from a No. 3 to a Field Grade?

[Stan Hoover]

An NID Craig?

Yes Randy,

I handled the Field Grade Craig is referring to I believe, very late NID, NO Ithaca marking or engraving, barrels were 32” with what I believe was an Ithaca factory vent rib. I thought it not factory but after looking it over with Brian Hunt we came to the conclusion that it was original. The serial # I believe was in the 469,000 range, one of the last NID’s out the door.

The vent rib was not level from top of receiver like typical where the vent rib frame is higher on Ithaca NID’s generally.

The vent rib was ramped from top of receiver if you know what I mean? I thought you may have handled that one.

Sorry for the confusion Dave,
Me and Randy were referring to a 32” 20 gauge Grade 3 NID that was posted a few years back, it was a phantom I guess, it was sold before we called, only a few hrs after posted:cuss:

Craig is referring to a the 32” 20 gauge Field grade encountered at the Southern I believe in 2022, one of the last NID’s with no marking.

[Dave Noreen]

I handled the Field Grade Craig is referring to I believe, very late NID, NO Ithaca marking or engraving, barrels were 32” with what I believe was an Ithaca factory vent rib. I thought it not factory

That sounds like a gun I saw at Louisville or one of the OGCA shows when the PGCA was there maybe 25 or more years ago. When I saw it my thought was someone had found a set of barrels and forearm for one of those finished 16- & 20-gauge Field Grade frames and stocks that Terry Turnbull had a big cardboard box full of at Creekside when I was there in 1986. $150 each at that time. They must have never been barreled when NID production ceased at Ithaca.

[Stan Hoover]

Thanks for that information Dave,

That may explain why I've encountered a handful of unmarked NID frames over the past couple years.
Were the frames you encountered marked with a serial #?

[Dan Steingraber]

Yes Randy,

I handled the Field Grade Craig is referring to I believe, very late NID, NO Ithaca marking or engraving, barrels were 32” with what I believe was an Ithaca factory vent rib. I thought it not factory but after looking it over with Brian Hunt we came to the conclusion that it was original. The serial # I believe was in the 469,000 range, one of the last NID’s out the door.

The vent rib was not level from top of receiver like typical where the vent rib frame is higher on Ithaca NID’s generally.

The vent rib was ramped from top of receiver if you know what I mean? I thought you may have handled that one.

Sorry for the confusion Dave,
Me and Randy were referring to a 32” 20 gauge Grade 3 NID that was posted a few years back, it was a phantom I guess, it was sold before we called, only a few hrs after posted:cuss:

Craig is referring to a the 32” 20 gauge Field grade encountered at the Southern I believe in 2022, one of the last NID’s with no marking.

Yes Stan, it was at the 2022 Southern and this gun was how I first met you. The gun was owned by a friend of a friend and he was interested in having you take a look at it.

[Bill Murphy]

Stan, the one I found at Vegas a decade or two ago is identical to the one you describe. I sent it home to Maryland and as far as I know, the recipient still has it. I don't think they were put together from the unmarked frames that floated around the East Coast 40 or 50 years ago. How would anyone come up with sets of 20 gauge vent rib 32" barrels to finish the guns? I think the three guns described in this thread were real production guns, very late. Like Stan, I was suspicious of the gun's originality so I turned it over to a friend.

[Stan Hoover]

Thanks Dan,

Sorry I didn’t recall who put me on that one, I just remembered whose it was and that it was a head scratcher, the first one I had seen.

Bill,

This one currently resides not too far from Md, in VA if it hasn’t moved since I last talked with then owner. It was not for sale when I was asked to offer my opinion.
I did however have a chance to purchase an unmarked NID 12 gauge with three sets of barrels that were loosely fitted. Is is currently a project gun.
Former owner’s grandfather worked at the factory and was able to acquire said gun

[Dave Noreen]

Thanks for that information Dave,

That may explain why I've encountered a handful of unmarked NID frames over the past couple years.
Were the frames you encountered marked with a serial #?

When I was at Creekside in 1986, I remember them marked F and 16 or 20. I can't swear they were serial numbered but in that they were color case hardened and completely finished stocks and frames I suspect they were serial numbered. That was a while before I was crazy enough to be recording such information. I was at Creekside a few months before the Gun Owner's Relief Act of 1986 took effect and I didn't want any of them bad enough to mess with an interstate transfer.

[CraigThompson]

I dare say the 20 I mentioned won’t be for sale in the anywhere near future . That individual likes it quite a bit and his recently married daughter has a decided preference for the gun as well .