Purdey Question #2

[Ian Civco]

A recent Purdey question inspired me.

Hence, Purdey Question #2.

I handled one years ago, and what a shotgun!

Never thought one might be an option, but with the recent slide in double shotgun prices, especially 12 ga, one might be on the horizon.

When do you think might be the time to buy? Now? 5 years? 10 years? Etc. E.g., when might this market bottom?

Then, where to buy? Seems probably cheaper to buy domestically, than import from the UK, even if used. I wouldn’t even consider new.

And I guess some refurbishment is okay. Not what I would like, but it seems okay with British shotguns oddly. And even more oddly, it even seems okay with Parker shotguns! I prefer factory original even if worn, but am open to any thoughts from the Parker community.

Any other thoughts?

[Reggie Bishop]

Time to buy is today. Tomorrow isn't guaranteed. I am not convinced, considering some of the last few auctions, that prices are declining. At least not for nice original guns.

[Ian Civco]

I meant that double shotguns are declining and ever less popular.

[CraigThompson]

Time to buy is today. Tomorrow isn't guaranteed. I am not convinced, considering some of the last few auctions, that prices are declining. At least not for nice original guns.

I think condition is bringing as much of a premium as it ever did if not more . But I also think run of the mill condition wise guns may not be a hot ticket item as perhaps they were a few years back .

[CraigThompson]

I meant that double shotguns are declining and ever less popular.

The people that covet these things are steadily getting older and leaving this world , so yes the market may becoming narrower .

[Ian Civco]

The people that covet these things are steadily getting older and leaving this world , so yes the market may becoming narrower .

That’s my mindset. I’m guessing I’m younger than the average Purdey owner.

[Jeff langbehn]

I bought mine after a li

[Jeff langbehn]

I bought mine after a lifetime of wanting one wish I had done it 10 years sooner. With that said buy the best you can afford, yes they are built very well but they all wear out sooner or later. Never know when another pandemic may show up an really slow things down. Del Whitman worked on mine and he does exceptional work all the best jeff

[Bill Murphy]

The great fallacy is that British guns are worth as much refinished as original unlike American guns which only have high value when in original high condition. The truth is that British guns are worth much more when in high original condition than when in ground down refinished condition. No matter where a gun was made, a high condition original gun is always worth more, much more than a ground down gun.

[Bill Murphy]

I chased my dream Purdey for fifty years, let a half dozen great guns slip by either because I was too slow or the gun was too expensive. Then, a few years ago, the perfect Purdey appeared in a gun store just a few miles from my home. It had every feature I could have wanted and in high condition. To add a final feature, it was cheap, way cheap. I could have had a very acceptable Purdey years earlier, but it didn't matter. I now have the perfect example I have waited for. I would like to have some of the ones I missed, and I will try to own them if I have the chance, but they will be more than I would pay. I have my eye on the perfect mate for my Purdey, but it is priced $40,000 higher than mine cost. I will never own this second gun.

[Bill Murphy]

Duplicate post.

[Ian Civco]

The great fallacy is that British guns are worth as much refinished as original unlike American guns which only have high value when in original high condition. The truth is that British guns are worth much more when in high original condition than when in ground down refinished condition. No matter where a gun was made, a high condition original gun is always worth more, much more than a ground down gun.

I don’t see how it can be anything other than exactly this.

[Arthur Shaffer]

I believe that, due to impulse and replacing a number of guns I sold a few years ago, that I have purchased a LOT of guns in the last 2-3 years than most people. I have concentrated on doubles during that period. I haven't been buyig really premium guns but nice or ynique guns. My impression is that doubles two years ago had dropped to bargain levels. Since that time I have noticed, IMHO, that the bidding perssure on these guns has risen and availability has dropped significantly. There are always fluctuations but right now I see the market is up. It does seem to me that the availability of really top end collectable guns has risen sharply during that time. If you read the ads, I suspect that the bulk of these are not random "finds" but sale of entire estates and collections. The result of this seems to be a sharp upward jump in prices for these guns. This seems to be counter to the theory of the aging collector vs price. I believe it is due to pent up demand taking advantage of the situation. It may be that this is a permanent repeating cycle or it may just be a short term reaction to a change in market. I think it is really impossible to determine the future in collecting. Compared to the time I graduated from college and bought my first old double, prices are comparitively sky high.

[Ken Hill]

Why a Purdey? Have you looked at H&H Royals or Dickson Round Actions? Purdeys are nice but so are other Brit guns.

Ken

[Ian Civco]

Why a Purdey? Have you looked at H&H Royals or Dickson Round Actions? Purdeys are nice but so are other Brit guns.

Ken

Dickson Round Action shotguns are truly works of art. I wouldn’t discount them. Holland & Holland is right up there with Purdey. But Purdey is like a Rolls Royce or Harvard education. Yes, there are other cars out there, and other universities, but there’s only one Rolls Royce, only one Harvard, only one Purdey, etc.

[Ken Hill]

Ian,

Fair enough. The tough question is are prices rising or falling. If you can time the market, that would be great. You have time to look over a lot of guns. Look at current asking prices and selling prices. When you find the gun, buy it at a reasonable price and don’t look back.

Ken

[John Dallas]

Based on their recent performance I wouldn't hold up Harvard for anything positive

[Ian Civco]

Based on their recent performance I wouldn't hold up Harvard for anything positive

I won’t disagree one bit! Ivy League schools are overrated, in fact the whole college “experience” is overrated. If I was just getting out of high school now, I’d apprentice to become an electrician or a plumber. Your local electrician or plumber is probably more likely to own that Purdey than the college graduate with mountains of student loans.

[Bill Murphy]

Why a Purdey?? They just have a mystique in the world of shotguns. This is especially true in the USA, where Purdey pigeon guns have been used by the elite of the flyer game. Like a Parker, Purdeys have been made in more variety of gauges and weights than other makes, have features like side clips on pigeon guns, which are very rare or unobtainable on other brands. I have owned and shot guns by Greener, William Evans, Cogswell and Harrison, Woodward, and other Brit guns, but the Purdey has a cache that the others don't. Well, maybe the Woodward.

[John Dallas]

About 15-20 years ago, I got a 4 hour tour of the Holland and Holland factory by the plant manager. Unbelievable. In many places it was like going back in a time capsule. The manager acknowledged that there were places where they could eliminate hand operations by using my CNC, but said that the few dollars that you save would mean that the knowledge would be lost. He said for the customer was more about "I've got it, and you don't". I handled a 3 barrel S x S x S which was surprisingly mobile. A great tour

[Ed Blake]

High condition best British guns will hold their value and are a unique market. Sounds like you want a shooter. Hit the Southern SxS next year and you will see a bunch. Remember, many British makers of second and third tier were capable of making best guns. Give those a look and save yourself some money

[Tom Jay]

Contact Bill @ Robin Hollow Guns at Addieville East Farms. He has several very nice Purdey’s that are reasonably priced.

[Joe Graziano]

Over the past 18 months, I’ve gotten a fairly good feel for the British gun market. I’ve attended a few Holt’s auctions in person and have bought a couple guns at auction. First, the cost to import a gun from the UK to the U.S. has come down considerably. This is mostly due to Holt’s working with a new importer. They sell a huge number of guns to American clients. In the auctions I have attended, I’ve seen several old guns, particularly Purdey’s, go for absurd prices, usually to buyers bidding by phone or online. One can assume most of these are Americans. One particular Purdey was shown to me at a shooting ground before it went to auction. It was thoroughly worn. I considered offering the owner £1500 but decided to pass as it would have likely been a money pit. That same gun sold for £3500 plus commission. That’s nearly $5800 before import fees. I thought, someone is going to be very disappointed when that Purdey finally arrives. You can get amazing deals by buying at auction in the UK. And as I mentioned, the import costs have come way down, thanks to Holt’s. Personally, I would only buy from Holt’s and only after attending in person. Or, have a friend or pay an agent to inspect the gun in person. Or, go to the auction! Seriously, if you are going to lay out serious money for a dream gun, hop on the plane and fly to the UK. Attending in person is huge fun and quite exciting. Plus, you can spend hours and hours viewing and handling the finest guns in the world, asking questions and chatting with the incredibly knowledgeable and personable Nick Holt. I wound up buying a Rigby from Holt’s at about 1/3 of what I would have paid in the US. But I spent hours in the gun room pouring over every gun of interest, taking notes and setting personal bid limits for each. In the end, I got an awesome gun at a great price. It wasn’t easy and took a bit of luck in terms of other bidders. Always remember, you are bidding against extremely knowledgeable collectors and other retailers in the British trade. They aren’t sitting at home looking at pics and bidding by laptop. They come in person or have an employee or trusted friend view them in person.

Another great option, as Ed mentioned, is the Southern SxS. Francis Lovell ?owner of Atkin, Grant &Lang), Edward Martin, Diggory Hadoke and others attend each year. Francis moves a heck of a lot of guns at the Southern. All are very reputable. They can source a gun for you and bring it with them. These will generally be antiques, 1898 or older, to avoid ATF Form 6 paperwork. Or, just go to the Southern and see what they’ve brought with them for sale. From what I saw this year, there were some great deals, particularly from AG&L.

[Ian Civco]

I think attending in person at Holt’s is an excellent idea! That’s something to consider.

The most disappointing thing about attending an auction in person, however, is making the effort to attend, with high expectations, only to find the lots you are interested in are unattainable due to online or phone bidders blowing you out of the water. It was more fun in the days when your competition was often just anyone else in the room, +/- the occasional left bid.

[Joe Graziano]

Oh yes. I know how you feel, especially if you travel a long way. I’m already in Europe and go to the UK to shoot, so it’s simply taking a day off shooting and driving to Norfolk. The other side of it is what I did a couple auctions ago. I looked at the guns prior, then decided to bid online the day of the auction while out shooting clays. As you can guess, I got distracted and missed two great opportunities. The very last sidelock was a Rigby “B” grade with a rising bite. It had gone for £4200 in the previous auction and I guess was never paid. It was a beautiful gun. It went for £1K! I pulled up the auction just as it was going, going, gone! I couldn’t click bid fast enough and someone else got an amazing deal. And that’s auctions. ��