24 " barrels

[kurt varga]

Listing on GB has PP grade 16 ga parker steel barrels 1927, 24in listed as being cut but to me the muzzle still has the wedges in place. I've looked in the parker big book and no listing for those 24" barrels with parker steel. Are the barrels the real deal or been cut?

thanks kurt

[Dave Noreen]

The PGCA Research Letter page shows the PGCA has records for the serial number 217718, so you could get a letter on it.

[kurt varga]

I'm asking about the barrels , are they cut or orig 24".
kurt

[Garry L Gordon]

I'm asking about the barrels , are they cut or orig 24".
kurt

Kurt, if there is a record for your gun, it would likely specify the barrel length.

[kurt varga]

I don't own the gun if you read my first post you will see that i asked about the barrel to try and learn, if they are not cut as the seller says then they are a very special set of barrels.
kurt

[Garry L Gordon]

I don't own the gun if you read my first post you will see that i asked about the barrel to try and learn, if they are not cut as the seller says then they are a very special set of barrels.
kurt

Kurt, I did read your first post. If you can get good photos of the barrel ends, it might get you an opinion. You don’t need to own the gun to get a letter, and it could save you money in the end. I’ve gotten letters on guns I was interested in at auctions. The peace of mind is worth it.

[Bruce Day]

This is Rich Flanders old 16 ga that he hunted grouse with for many years. The cut barrels gave open patterns that were perfect for close conditions. I have shot the gun and used it to kill a porcupine after it quilled one of the young dogs.

[edgarspencer]

Listing on GB has PP grade 16 ga parker steel barrels 1927, 24in listed as being cut but to me the muzzle still has the wedges in place. I've looked in the parker big book and no listing for those 24" barrels with parker steel. Are the barrels the real deal or been cut?

thanks kurt

Lock, Stock & Barrel are very knowledgeable sellers. Apart from the obvious indication, the barrels not touching at the muzzle, the gun is listed in the serialization book as having 28" Barrels. The presence of Keels isn't unusual in cut barrels. Keels were simply used to fill the gap at the muzzle to keep the solder from flowing, and often were several inches long. The photo in the GB listing is sufficiently clear to confirm they're cut. One of my favorite grouse guns is a 20ga DHE with cut, 24" barrels. One of the many guns I parted with and regret doing so, was a Grade 0, 16ga lifter with barrels cut to 24".

[Bill Murphy]

I read your first post and "Yes". A PGCA letter is $40.00 and a Serialization Book is about $30.00. Either one will confirm that the gun left the factory with 28" barrels.

[George Lang]

Edgar, just to let you know that 16 ga is still going strong and I won't make your mistake.

[edgarspencer]

:cuss:Edgar, just to let you know that 16 ga is still going strong and I won't make your mistake.:cuss:

[Stan Hillis]

Keels were simply used to fill the gap at the muzzle to keep the solder from flowing, and often were several inches long.

Several inches long is news to me.

Why would Parker, or any other maker, use keels to fill in the gaps at the muzzles, that were several inches long? Would that not suggest that the makers were anticipating someone, down the road, shortening the barrels?

The keels I have taken out by melting the solder and removing the ribs were only 1/8" "long" at most.

[Mike Franzen]

Perhaps the longer keels were used to balance the gun.

[Bill Murphy]

:shock::shock:

[edgarspencer]

Several inches long is news to me.

Why would Parker, or any other maker, use keels to fill in the gaps at the muzzles, that were several inches long? Would that not suggest that the makers were anticipating someone, down the road, shortening the barrels?

The keels I have taken out by melting the solder and removing the ribs were only 1/8" "long" at most.

Several keels were shown here, and one or two were over 4" long. One thing is for certain; the muzzle picture shown of the cut barrels clearly shows keels. The barrels were cut by 4". Were new keels inserted and soldered in place after the barrels were bobbed? Unlikely, but not impossible.

[Dean Romig]

Several keels were shown here, and one or two were over 4" long. One thing is for certain; the muzzle picture shown of the cut barrels clearly shows keels. The barrels were cut by 4". Were new keels inserted and soldered in place after the barrels were bobbed? Unlikely, but not impossible.


It all depends on who bobbed the barrels. If Parker Bros. cut the barrels they most certainly would have installed new keels. DHE 149020 proves the fact.





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[edgarspencer]

Well, there's a hot mess. Did you refuse to pay the ransom? Those pics demonstrate how digital photography can sometimes work against you. too much detail.

Those pics need some sort of supporting documents. There's no proof, without the letter, to say Parker cut them. There is no proof one could say(one with a vivid imagination) the keels present aren't original, or, replaced.
The keels always extended out the front, in the initial soldering process, and were them cut flush during finishing. Their length had as much to do with gauge also, because the ribs needed to rest on something firm to keep them squared up when they were wrapped.
Keep in mind, also taking into account Mike's comment re balance, that solder is nearly 4 times heavier than steel. Large cavities needed to be 'filled' with something, (keels) to A, prevent filling them with solder, adding weight, and, B, to prevent shrinkage withing the solder as it solidifies. Solder solidifies like steel, like a thickening envelope, leaving a void in the center. Voids are little places where moisture takes up residence.

[Dean Romig]

OMGoodness Edgar… you’ve seen the letter before and you’ve handled the gun too and you may even rember it is tho only known Parker twenty-eight gauge to have been made with 24” Damascus barrels… in ANY grade. But I know you just like to pull my chain…:whistle:


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[edgarspencer]

Dean, that letter, and George's comment, bring to the surface, many of our 'less well thought-out' decisions. George, That little 16 came to me by a 'picker', who unearthed it from the original family. Bridgeport, CT, as I recall. The stupid move began, with me selling it to Tom Carter. Tom indicated at the time, as I recall, that he was going to fit steel, 20ga barrels to it. That never happened, and Dean bought it. Then Dean joined Tom and I in the 'Stupid Move' club and again sent it packing. There is lots of space for new members in the Stupid Move club, so, should you decide to join, I suspect both Dean, and I would be willing to help your application along.

[Dean Romig]

So you’re saying that George now owns the 16 ga. Twist barreled Lifter that was bobbed to 24”??





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[edgarspencer]

Edgar, just to let you know that 16 ga is still going strong and I won't make your mistake.

So you’re saying that George now owns the 16 ga. Twist barreled Lifter that was bobbed to 24”??

I may have interpreted George's comment incorrectly, but, if not, it would appear by his comment, that he is the current (in an ever-growing list) owner.

This thread is now a 100 car pileup of a train wreck.

[George Lang]

Edgar, thanks for your generous offer but I believe I'm already a member of the Stupid Move Club, many times over, in fact I believe I am a Charter Member.

[edgarspencer]

Yes, George, I remember seeing you at the annual meeting. I made a note to myself, not to attend that event again. Everyone standing around reminding each other of our stupid moves. Regardless how ill advised they were, it was a reminder that there's always room for improvement, even though we think the most recent took the cake.
To this day, I remember the talk the company commander gave us, the night before we got our first liberty after graduation from Basic, and before we went on to our A schools. He offered words of wisdom, and caution. I think he told us something to the effect, that Love may fade, but Herpes is Forever.
Being a charter member of the SM club means, that despite no longer having to pay annual dues, the only route to leaving the club, is to die.**

**Edit: Actually, that's not true either. As I recall, there's a bunch of pictures, called the Wall Of Shame, where members who have passed on are Honored for making moves so incredible, they are assumed to be unbeatable.

[Dean Romig]

Well you two aren’t alone here… I too am a charter member, having made a few blundreius errors in this regard as well… one being selling the gun in question… :banghead:






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[allen newell]

Welcome to the club Gents. I joined a long time ago. And Edgar, it was a long time before Basic training and that Company commander's words of wisdom that we all got.

[Gerry Addison]

I have a 28 gauge with factory 24 inch barrels and they are specified that way in the serialization book.

[Aaron Beck]

what does a 24" 28g on a 0 frame weigh? what is the stamped barrel weight on the flats?

[Dean Romig]

There were only 27 known 28 gauge Parkers made with 24" barrels.





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[Dean Romig]

what does a 24" 28g on a 0 frame weigh? what is the stamped barrel weight on the flats?


I'll guess about 6 1/2 lbs or so.





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[Aaron Beck]

6.5lb because the barrels are relatively thicker than a 20 or 16? did they not alter the outside profile?

[Dean Romig]

Of the barrels? Yes it should have had a more ‘abrupt’ (if I can use that word) swamping profile to stay within a desired weight.





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[edgarspencer]

I have a 28 gauge with factory 24 inch barrels and they are specified that way in the serialization book.

Gerry, here's my letter on 99687. 99686 was also purchased by the same family, and these were the first 24" 28ga guns

what does a 24" 28g on a 0 frame weigh? what is the stamped barrel weight on the flats?

As you can see from the letter, my 24" gun was originally PG stocked, with a short LOP. I had Brian put a Parker straight stock on it, with a 14 1/8" LOP.
The gun weighed 5 pounds, 12 ounces.


There were only 27 known 28 gauge Parkers made with 24" barrels.

I'd guess you're taking that from the tables at the back of volume II, but the actual number is a bit higher. 99687 isn't in the book, but that was because the order book entry was partially smudged with a red tick mark. See above copy from the book.

I'll guess about 6 1/2 lbs or so.

My 24" weighs 5 lbs 12, and my 28" weighs 5 lbs 14. My 30" is 6lbs 5oz.

6.5lb because the barrels are relatively thicker than a 20 or 16? did they not alter the outside profile?

Yes, even the 0 frames are profiled smaller than a 20. The main reason my 30", also on an 0 frame, weighs in so much higher than the others is the stock is a very dense piece of circassion walnut. All are straight stocked.

[Dean Romig]

Agreed Edgar, and 149020 isn't listed in the tables either but there is a reason, I believe in my case, for this.

In the serialization book 149020 is shown as having been made with 28" Damascus barrels, built in 1908 and it obviously sat in inventory for four years until in 1912 an order came in from a wealthy and important client for a 24" Damascus gun... so the Brothers P filled the order.





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