Ammunition pressures

[Allen Peterson]

I have a couple of Parker guns a 12ga.VH and a Trojan. I use Polywad or RST low Pressure Ammo in my old English, German, and other American double guns with the exception of My Ithaca NID,s. This past weeked I tried some spreader loads in the Tightly choked VH, at the 5 stand. The results were inconsistant.
(Could have been just plane crappy shooting). The gun is too good looking to mess with the chokes and is great on the trap fields. I am opening up the chokes in the Trojan for use in sporting clays. Will this gun and stock hold up to 2 3/4 dram 1 oz loads from Federal?

[Fred Lauer]

I don't know if it's just me, but those Federal Top Gun loads knock the snot out of me and my Trojan. If your gun is at about the 8 lb. mark it might not be bothersome. Could be just me. Fred

[Gregory Miller]

I guess we need to the disclaimer thing i.e. have a competent gunsmith check your gun...

As to a Trojan or VH with 2 3/4 drams, that is far below its proof value for a 12ga. And, I have shot a few thousand rounds of 2 3/4 out of my VH. Not an issue. Both Vulcans and VH use modern fluid steel barrels.

As to spreader loads, they have a mixed reputation. I know people who use them, but I also know people who have pattern tested them and found really big holes in patterns.

an ounce with 2 3/4 dr eq of No. 8 should do just fine. Mine is Mod/Full and has not been a problem for Clays.

[Bill Murphy]

Fullchoke16, please let us know the specifications of the Federal Top Gun loads that you find uncomfortable. The loads suggested by the original poster should not be abusive in any Trojan.

[Fred Lauer]

Bill, You're right. I dug out a box of those Top Gun Federals and they are labeled 3drams, 1 1/8 oz. not 2 3/4, 1 oz. Fred

[Bruce Day]

I'm not aware of any 12ga Parker that was not intended when made to handle a 3 dre, 1 1/8oz load, both in recoil and chamber psi. Obviously, a person may choose for a variety of reasons to use a lesser load.

[Bill Murphy]

12 gauge Parkers back into the teens were often pattern tested at the factory with 3 1/4 DE, 1 1/4 ounce loads.

[Mike Shepherd]

This is out of the Parker Story, Volume 2, page 515 and is for 12 gauge 2-5/8" chambers. TPC states that the article states that Parker adheres to the standards in the table.

Nominal Chamber and shell length - 2-5/8"

Theroetical Service Pressure limits Based on Definitive Proof Pressures
Mean: 9800
Maximum Individiual 12,000

Service Working Limits for Factory Loaded Ammunition
Mean: 9500
Maximum Individual 10,800

Notes on the table say that the units I gave are pounds which I take to mean psi
The table was in a 1934 article

One of the notes in the table said that the limits are based on 1925 British Rules and Regulations

I surmise that the psi and ton pressure measurement are in LUP which I think stands for "lead units of pressure." One of Burrard's volumes has a conversion for LUP to electronic pressure measured units. I have never been able to confirm that the table this is taken from is in LUP.

I shoot Federal Top Gun 2-3/4 dram 1-1/8oz loads in my Parker VH 98XXX, 7-1/2s and 8s. This gun is 2 frame with 30" barrels and weighs 7lbs 13 ounces. It had the chambers lengthened to 2-3/4" before I got it. I have measured the chamber wall thicknesses at the end of the chamber and the thinnest is .110". I use the gun for clays and for field trialing.

My gun was made well before 1934.

You pays your money and you takes your chances.

Best,

Mike

[Bruce Day]

Yes, Bill is correct, Mike is correct and I'm correct in the above statements. Yet, these issues consume discussions and questions on this forum and we have never had whatever it takes to produce a unified statement in a FAQ or guideline. That has been a source of frustration for me for years. Somehow some people believe that by stating what Parker did is somehow the PGCA sanctioning present day actions by people who may or may not have guns that are suitable to stand the same loads today, and we seem to be unable to resolve that issue.

[Mike Shepherd]

And here is the 2-3/4 DE 1oz Federal Top Gun:

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/shotshell.aspx?id=671

One summer when I was shooting a lot of clays I ordered in a pallet of these and I think they are great.

And here is the Top Gun 2-3/4DE 1-1/8oz which the Gander Mountain here usually stocks:

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/shotshell.aspx?id=446

These are the shells I usually shoot in my old VH.

Best,

Mike

[Bruce Day]

Mike shoots the same 1oz Feds that I usually shoot in 12ga damascus or fluid. They have a softer recoil than some other ( Rem) 1 oz loads, I suppose it is the components.

[Allen Peterson]

Just for general information I recieved a return call from federal. The top gun loads in both 2 3/4 and 3 dram loads develop somewhere between 8600 and 9000 psi. These are within the design operating pressures if the gun is in good condition .