The Sporting Clays Classic

[Greg Baehman]

Parker Reproduction’s Sporting Clays Classic model is my nominee for the Most Versatile Parker on the Planet. With only 125 of this model in existence there is a certain amount of exclusivity to those that are lucky enough to own one. The Sporting Clays Classic shown below, having 3” chambers, steel shot capability and 10 choke tubes — 2 SK, 2 IC, 2 MOD, 2 IM and 2 FULL, yields at my count, 50 possible combinations. In other words, it would require a total of 50 fixed choked guns to equal the versatility of just one Sporting Clays Classic! :eek:

[charlie cleveland]

what a fine gun to own....i like thechokes on this gun.....charlie

[todd allen]

That one is a beauty, for sure!

[Jeff Elder]

Very cool. Never knew they made one with spin in chokes.

[Paul Ehlers]

FYI

The choke tubes on these guns were the Winchester Win-Chokes that Winchester was using at that time. This makes sense being as the repro's were being built under contract with Winchester in Japan.

These also weren't thin wall tubes and required the barrels to be expanded at the muzzles to accept them, so there will be a slight bulging of the barrels near the muzzle end of the barrels.

This isn't a big deal to me because it's just part of what is probably one of the most unique offerings available with the Parker reproductions.

[John Dallas]

If Krieghoff can swell their barrels, I see nothing wrong with doing it on a Japanese import

[Greg Baehman]

Please do not confuse the bulging of Krieghoff and other maker’s barrels with the very slight flare of the Sporting Clays Classic. Back in the day when Parker Reproductions were producing these guns it was prudent of the manufacturer to maintain wall thickness through the choke tube area. During this time period thinwall choke tubes were in their infancy, manufacturers were cautioning against shooting steel loads through them and writers were writing and shooters were saying to be careful handling them for fear they’d dent or get out of round.

I get a kick out of those running around saying Sporting Clays Classic barrels are bulged, like it’s a terrible thing. They likely have never even seen or have never shot a round of anything with the Sporting Clays Classic — if they had, they might come away with a different opinion.

Shown below is a Sporting Clays Classic. Look closely for yourself, you might need a straight edge to detect the slight flare.

[Paul Ehlers]

Just a point for clarification.

I wasn't trying to demean the sporting clays classics as being inferior in any way due to the flaring, bulging or whatever one wants to call it for the accommodation of the win-chokes.

My view was just from an instructional/informational standpoint. The PGCA is an educational organization about all things Parker shotgun related & this site is the online place for both the members & the general public go to gain knowledge of our beloved guns. With this in mind, my intension of mentioning the flaring was simply stating a matter of fact for educational purposes about this unique Parker reproduction offering.

The flaring is what it is & wouldn't bother me in the least. I would love to own one, but to others it might be a big deal.

[Phil Cloninger]

Greg, I am a great fan of the SCC and love the choke holders you made for this SCC case...

As mentioned in an earlier post, I love my SCC, but also like 26" barrels for Upland.
I was able to purchase a set of the original 26", Q1 and Q2 barrels from Josh and have them fitted....We have made the most versatile PR just a bit more versatile with the addition of the 26" barrels.

Now I am looking for a PR two-barrel case in 28". The last time I checked, Josh didn't have one in that configuration. If anyone might have one for sale, or a lead on one, I would appreciate your letting me know.... Thanks!

[Bill Murphy]

Some time back, I was informed on this site that there are more than one variation of the Sporting Clays Classic choke installation. One variation seems to have more flare than the one pictured here. The one pictured here shows very little or no flare. The other variation shows a very visible flare. They may have been a very early SCC, maybe a prototype.

[Greg Baehman]

Some time back, I was informed on this site that there are more than one variation of the Sporting Clays Classic choke installation. One variation seems to have more flare than the one pictured here. The one pictured here shows very little or no flare. The other variation shows a very visible flare. They may have been a very early SCC, maybe a prototype.
Once upon a time, a long, long, long, long time ago, I heard that that if a person hears something enough, something that has been repeated over and over and over again, so much so they start believing it themselves -- and then they go on repeating it . . . and then others that have heard it go on repeating it . . . things such as a very visible flare or bulging to a Sporting Clays Classic's muzzles comes to mind.

Bill, would you please post a pic of any SCC with a very flared muzzle? (Oh, that's right you're unable to post pics. :cuss:) So, at the very least, please refer us to a link on this site that documents an SCC with a very flared muzzle and I'll start believing it, too. Until then, I believe you're dreaming.

[David C Porter]

With a 12" straight edge I show about 1/16" gap. Just looking at it you really don't notice the barrel flare.

[Bill Murphy]

Greg, all I know is that, many moons ago, I was offered, face to face, an SCC that had a muzzle flare that I could not live with. I don't have pictures and I don't have the gun. I just know I wanted an SCC and couldn't live with the flare. If I were offered an SCC today without a bulge, I would jump on it. By the way, this has been discussed here before and posters much more experienced than I discussed the two different varieties of SCC. The pictured SCC is very nice with no apparent flare. I would love to add that gun to my Repro collection.

[Greg Baehman]

***Snip*** By the way, this has been discussed here before and posters much more experienced than I discussed the two different varieties of SCC. ***Snip***
Bill, would you please lead me, via a link if you're able, to one of those discussions where the two different varieties of the SCC were discussed?

[Bill Murphy]

Greg, I love your essay that combines humor with sarcasm with a bit of irony injected. Of course I can't give you the link you requested. The point I made was that I once "did not buy" a SCC because of the muzzle area of the barrels. That point has nothing to do with our conversation or your gun. Again, your SCC is beautiful and I would love to own it.

[Chuck Loveless]

I just purchased a SCC and it came with 6 chokes. Did yours come with all that you show in the case? BTW beautiful block for the chokes, I'll be making one to hold my chokes . Thanks

[David C Porter]

I got the block idea from Wild Skies, but added the top cover. They came with 6 chokes. I added a few extras

[Greg Baehman]

I just purchased a SCC and it came with 6 chokes. Did yours come with all that you show in the case? BTW beautiful block for the chokes, I'll be making one to hold my chokes . Thanks
Like David, I purchased additional chokes to the six that were included from the factory. In addition to the tubes I listed in my initial post, I also purchased 2-Cyl and 2-XF tubes -- making for a complete set of Winchester Winchoke Type III tubes available for the SCC. So, instead of requiring 50 fixed choke guns to equal the versatility of just one Sporting Clays Classic, it would add so much more additional versatility that it would likely require a warehouse to store all those fixed choke guns in. :eek:

TIP: The "rectangular" area within the case for your block is not a true rectangle - it is actually trapezoidal in shape. When making your choke tube holder do not cut the wood as a rectangle or you will end up of having voids around the perimeter of the block. Take careful measurements before cutting.

[Kevin McCormack]

I LOVE the subtle but definitely pronounced "Muderlakian Twist" to this thread! What a ball he would have with it were he alive today!!

[Bill Murphy]

Ed M. was a classic "curmudgeon" of the unfriendly genre. I, however, took over the "curmudgeon" title of the PGCA forum. However, I, unlike Ed, am a friendly "curmudgeon", out to educate and assist fellow members. Too bad some PGCA posters don't see it that way. Oh, well.

[todd allen]

Apologies in advance for taking this conversation into the weeds.
I met Muderlak once or twice, and knew Larry Baer to some extent personally. Been to his house, etc.
That would have been a cage match if you got them in the same room together ;-)

[Bill Murphy]

Maybe Dave Noreen will post the classic Maryland pigeon shoot picture that includes me and Ed in a good mood. Ed and I had our "cage match" after I brought a carload of rare and interesting Parkers for his book to his son's house in Virginia. After a grueling day of photography and setup, two of my guns appeared in his book. I don't know whether we ever met or spoke again, and our cage match was only a dream. I ordered the book directly from Ed and requested that it not be autographed. End of story.

[Greg Baehman]

It's a small world we travel in . . .

I first met Ed Muderlak and his wife at the Ace of Clubs drinking and eating establishment in Sagola at one of the early Yooper shoots. The Muderlak's and I had a very nice conversation, which mostly centered around their travels, his books and Parkers. This conversation eventually led to talking about what Parkers I brought to the shoot which included a Sporting Clays Classic. He loved the SCC and said it was a pity that Parker Bros. didn't yet have the technology to produce guns with choke tubes during their production. Although his wife didn't mention that she liked my SCC, too; I could see it in her eyes! :whistle:

I also met Larry Baer at one of the Antique Arms Shows in Las Vegas. This is the show that I examined the first BHE/DHE engraved Parker Reproduction 0000-frame .410 I had ever seen. This gun was on Paul Dorsa's table and was for sale. Larry Baer had a Parker Reproduction A-1 Special 28/28/.410 3-bbl. set in-the-white for sale on his table. It was this Baer's 00-frame 3-bbl. set that I measured to compare it with Dorsa's 0000-frame to properly recognize and identify as an actual 0000-frame gun, as I had never seen one before. What was doubly rare, odd and unusual was that it was a BHE with DHE engraving -- which turns out to be one of only three known to exist -- at least to my knowledge.

[Bill Murphy]

Ed's wife is one delightful person. I miss visiting with her.

[todd allen]

The world of side by sides is definitely a small world!

[Jim Thynne]

Ed M. was a classic "curmudgeon" of the unfriendly genre. I, however, took over the "curmudgeon" title of the PGCA forum. However, I, unlike Ed, am a friendly "curmudgeon", out to educate and assist fellow members. Too bad some PGCA posters don't see it that way. Oh, well.

But I do miss Ed and Parker Dog!! One of a kind!!

[Bill Murphy]

Thanks for the comment, Jim.

[Tom Jay]

A Parker SCC has been posted for sale on GI, #102578928. Robin Hollow Outfitters is the seller.

[Greg Baehman]

A Parker SCC has been posted for sale on GI, #102578928. Robin Hollow Outfitters is the seller.
Purchasing a Sporting Clays Classic, like that one or one similar to it, will cause those that know the capability of this model to be saying…

"Beware the Man with One Gun"

(Dbl. wink!)

[Bill Murphy]

At the risk of alienating many of our posters, let me suggest that the quote about "one gun" refers to one gun without screw chokes or three sets of barrels. Just my humble opinion. Of course, I'm the guy whose solution to every problem with guns, chokes, or ammunition is "Learn to shoot."

[tom tutwiler]

Quick story on Ed. I was in a small gunshop in Leesburg Va many years ago and I believe the name was Nimrod. It had a bunch of high end doubles. Most from Europe and England as I recall, but a few Parkers and other things. I had just come back from Germany so the year must have been about 1989. Anyway, I walked in and the owner was with a gentleman and they were both looking at a vintage book. I asked if I could look around and the owner said sure. Anyway, poking around and there was a pile of books on one table and they were all Ed's book "Old Reliable". I was not a Parker guy at the time, but I certainly knew of Parker shotguns. Picked up the book and looked at the back cover and of course there was Ed's picture. I looked at for a few minutes and thought I know that guy and was trying to figure out from where.

Looked back at the front where the owner and Ed were talking and suddenly realized that the fellow on the back cover was sitting right there. Anyway, waited until their was a break in the conversation and slid up there and asked if he indeed was the fellow on the back cover and he said yes. Anyway, I bought the book and was about to leave the store and he stopped me and asked me if I wanted him to autograph the book and I said sure. Still have it of course on the bookshelf. Pretty neat story.

[Bill Murphy]

Ed's son, or was it his son in law, lived right outside of Leesburg, east of town off Route 15. Ed spent a bit of time there. The Nimrod was a fun little store, long gone now.

[Greg Baehman]

***snip*** If I were offered an SCC today without a bulge, I would jump on it.***snip***

Here you go Bill, seller says the barrels have no flare out for the tubes! Nice wood, too!

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/shotguns/parker-shotguns-reproduction/parker-reproduction-dhe-classic-sporting-clays-12-ga-unfired-in-case-as-new-condition-28.cfm?gun_id=102782392

[Bill Murphy]

Price would have some minor consideration in making a deal.

[Tom Jay]

Check out Robin Hollow’s inventory. They have my SCC for sale and it does not have flared muzzles.

[Greg Baehman]

Price would have some minor consideration in making a deal.
IMO, the asking price of $7995 for this SCC represents great value considering the versatility, condition and rarity of this particular model. Of course, you’re free to come up with your own opinion regarding value.

I was curious about the seller stating “Barrels are dead straight, no flare out for the tubes.” So, I sent the seller a message asking for a pic that would address that claim, he promptly sent the pic which confirmed what I suspected — this SCC does have a very slight flare in the muzzle area — just like all SCCs. He has edited his listing slightly and now states “Barrels appear to be dead straight.” So, I guess if you’re one of those that cannot live with barrels that appear to be straight, but really aren’t; this is not the gun for you.

[edgarspencer]

This is all new to me. Is this flare to aid in choke tube removal?

[Greg Baehman]

This is all new to me. Is this flare to aid in choke tube removal?

No. Please read Paul's response in post #5 and my response in post #7 on pg. 1 of this thread. Others may expound further their thoughts and reasons.

[Daryl Corona]

This is all new to me. Is this flare to aid in choke tube removal?

For some reason many modern guns have flared or swaged barrels to accommodate the thick factory choke tubes. Unlike Briley thinwalls which are thin and almost invisible. I sold a beautiful Perazzi MX28 due to the flared muzzles. Couldn't stand looking at them. The only choke tube gun I shoot now has Teague chokes in them and they are virtually invisible.

[edgarspencer]

For some reason many modern guns have flared or swaged barrels to accommodate the thick factory choke tubes. Unlike Briley thinwalls which are thin and almost invisible. I sold a beautiful Perazzi MX28 due to the flared muzzles. Couldn't stand looking at them. The only choke tube gun I shoot now has Teague chokes in them and they are virtually invisible.

Is the flare just on the outside to provide enough meat to tap the threads for the tubes? That seems sorta Rube Goldberg, if I'm understanding it correctly.

[Daryl Corona]

Is the flare just on the outside to provide enough meat to tap the threads for the tubes? That seems sorta Rube Goldberg, if I'm understanding it correctly.

It looks like they swage the barrels expanding both the ID and OD to accept those chunky factory choke tubes. Briley figured it out years ago not having to expand the barrels. Although I have an 11-87 and a 1100 with factory choke tubes and they are not flared.

[David C Porter]

The barrels are not swaged, they are machined that way to give more thickness for the choke tubes & keep down barrel weight. Where thin choke tubes are the only way to install choke tubes in normal choked barrels. The factory choke tube barrels are more robust & safer (dings & barrel damage from dropping) than thin choke tubes. Some choke tube barrels are machined with a straight taper & some with a slight bell. I've had both Thin & factory. Personally, I'd rather have the more robust factory choke tube barrel.

[Bill Murphy]

I wish I could give Daryl more than one "thanks" for his last two posts. He tells it like it is. The flares are not in our imagination and some shooters can't stand them. Further, the gun in question at $7995 is two thousand dollars more than a similar Repro without chokes, a heck of a surcharge for choke tubes. Briley does the whole job with chokes for $549, less with dealer discount. In addition, it seems like the seller can't make up his mind about a gun that our posters say "has a slight flare" and describes the barrels in his ad as "dead straight". Which is it?

[Greg Baehman]

I wish I could give Daryl more than one "thanks" for his last two posts. He tells it like it is. The flares are not in our imagination and some shooters can't stand them. Further, the gun in question at $7995 is two thousand dollars more than a similar Repro without chokes, a heck of a surcharge for choke tubes. Briley does the whole job with chokes for $549, less with dealer discount. In addition, it seems like the seller can't make up his mind about a gun that our posters say "has a slight flare" and describes the barrels in his ad as "dead straight". Which is it?
With the above post filled with so much naivety, one wonders where to start? So, I'll start with this:

It bears repeating that you are not comparing apples to apples. You cannnot compare the dramatic swell, flare or bulging, or whatever you choose to call it, of Perazzi, Krieghoff and a host of other manufacturers barrels to the slight flare of the Sporting Clays Classic. They are very different in appearance. You, yourself Bill, commented in post #13 of this thread: "The pictured SCC is very nice with no apparent flare. I would love to add that gun to my Repro collection."

RE: The asking price of the listed gun being two grand more than a similar Repro. Why does one gun command a higher price than another? Listed below are a few reasons, you may have others...
* Versatility -- apparently it doesn't to you, but to others it might be a big deal.
* Condition -- apparently it doesn't to you, but to others it might be a big deal.
* Rarity -- apparently it doesn't to you, but to others it might be a big deal.
* Quality of wood -- apparently it doesn't to you, but to others it might be a big deal.
* Dimensions -- apparently it doesn't to you, but to others it might be a big deal.

One has to wonder why Daryl would purchase that beautiful Perazzi MX28 in the first place if he couldn't stand looking at them due to the flared muzzles?

As to the seller of the GI listed SCC changing his wording from "Barrels are dead straight, with no flare out for the tubes." to "Barrels appear to be dead straight." My take on that is that he was totally unaware and couldn't believe there was/is a slight flare after it was pointed out to him via his own photo. So, he edited his listing. I guess he can now play dumb by using the word "appear" if someone should question his listing.

If you're that anal about the slight flare to a SCC's muzzles, you best keep the SCC in your "did not buy" bucket o' guns. :)

[Daryl Corona]

With the above post is filled with so much naivety, one wonders where to start? So, I'll start at the beginning.

.

One has to wonder why Daryl would purchase that beautiful Perazzi MX28 in the first place if he couldn't stand looking at them due to the flared muzzles?



Well the reason I purchased the 28 Perazzi is because it was a good deal and I thought I could live with the flared muzzles. After a while it bothered me so when the gentleman I purchased the gun from told me he a fixed choke MX28 and he would give me what I paid for the flared one it was a no brainer. Some people like chocolate, some like vanilla. Muzzles with even the slightest amount of flare have no appeal to me.

[Greg Baehman]

Muzzles with even the slightest amount of flare have no appeal to me.
No need to worry, you’ll get over it. Therapy is available. The first step is admitting there’s a problem. :)

[Daryl Corona]

No need to worry, you’ll get over it. Therapy is available. The first step is admitting there’s a problem. :)

There is no problem here. With all due respect I don't like them so buy all the flared guns you want. We all don't have to like the same things.

[Greg Baehman]

You're right, no need to get all worked up about it as what's been said has been in jest. After all, we're all friends here!

I love slightly flared muzzles! Fixed chokes, too!

[David C Porter]

I see the gunbroker listing price for the "SSC" has been lowered from $8995 to $7995. That's still about $2000 too high. I bought mine (unfired in original box, hard case & cover) for $5700 last November. Granted, the wood is very nice on the gunbroker, but also splinter forearm & double triggers are not a plus to most buyers.

[Bob Jurewicz]

I am of the belief that: splinter forend, long LOP, Double Triggers and great Wood are definitely value adds.
Bob Jurewicz

[Bill Murphy]

And getting harder to find as collectors sniff out the double trigger guns.

[Greg Baehman]

IMO, the asking price of $7995 for this SCC represents great value considering the versatility, condition and rarity of this particular model. Of course, you’re free to come up with your own opinion regarding value.
Well, as predicted, this beautiful Sporting Clays Classic is marked as SALE PENDING -- despite what some naysayers wrote regarding the price. Must have been the versatility of choke tubes, the very slight muzzle flare and the gorgeous Claro walnut that the Sporting Clays Classic brings to the table that led to the quick sale.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/shotguns/parker-shotguns-reproduction/parker-reproduction-dhe-classic-sporting-clays-12-ga-unfired-in-case-as-new-condition-28.cfm?gun_id=102782392

[Mike Koneski]

That is a nice gun. Choke tubes would be wasted on me though as I'd choose two choke tubes and they'd stay in the barrels. Probably M/IM.

[Greg Baehman]

That is a nice gun. Choke tubes would be wasted on me though as I'd choose two choke tubes and they'd stay in the barrels. Probably M/IM.
Alternatively, if you were to take full advantage of the SCC's versatility you could drop in the SK/SK tubes when Skeet is the game or if you're in a Long Bird competition you might consider the F/XF tubes, or a multitude of any other situations -- you name it. With an SCC you're ready for anything!

[Daryl Corona]

Alternatively, if you were to take full advantage of the SCC's versatility you could drop in the SK/SK tubes when Skeet is the game or if you're in a Long Bird competition you might consider the F/XF tubes, or a multitude of any other situations that might arise. With an SCC you're ready for anything!

That does make it a versatile gun but I'm with Mike. M/IM will do it all.

[Greg Baehman]

That does make it a versatile gun but I'm with Mike. M/IM will do it all.
Is that M/IM fixed choked gun capable of shooting steel? How about when the firepower of 3" loads might be called for? How about Handicap Trap Doubles? Or how about those screaming rabbit targets at 15 feet?

Just think, no more muttering to yourself . . . "I sure wish I had a Sporting Clays Classic!"

[CraigThompson]

That does make it a versatile gun but I'm with Mike. M/IM will do it all.

That’s to open most of the guns I shoot are full and a bit more . And true you either obliterate or miss very few chippers on anything inside fifteen yards . :rotf: Funny how perspective changes over the years ! When the basis of my shotgunning was skeet quail dove grouse 26” IC/M or S/S were what I wanted . Now typically I want full full and 30-34” for everything although I don’t bother grouse any longer . It’s kinda satisfying when I’m at the local club shooting skeet with those that think they’re the clubs hotshot skeet shooters and I run a round with a 32” SxS hammer gun that’s choked quite tight after they’ve informed me “I won’t hit shit “ .

[Mike Koneski]

Is that M/IM fixed choked gun capable of shooting steel? How about when the firepower of 3" loads might be called for? How about Handicap Trap Doubles? Or how about those screaming rabbit targets at 15 feet?

Just think, no more muttering to yourself . . . "I sure wish I had a Sporting Clays Classic!"

You have a good point but for this guy, I don't shoot 3" or steel shot. If I must shoot steel that's what my fixed choke BSS is for. If I'm waterfowl hunting I use ITX or TSS. I can shoot ITX in my Parkers. It has a custom stock and an ISIS recoil system so it handles my waterfowl loads and my heavy crow loads (1 1/8 oz #5 or #6 at 1350-1400 FPS).

[Daryl Corona]

You have a good point but for this guy, I don't shoot 3" or steel shot. If I must shoot steel that's what my fixed choke BSS is for. If I'm waterfowl hunting I use ITX or TSS. I can shoot ITX in my Parkers. It has a custom stock and an ISIS recoil system so it handles my waterfowl loads and my heavy crow loads (1 1/8 oz #5 or #6 at 1350-1400 FPS).

What Mike said. I find no need for 3" or steel. I find that not worrying about chokes let's me focus on what's important. I bought my BSS way back when they first mandated . If need be I'll use a non-tox load.

[CraigThompson]

What Mike said. I find no need for 3" or steel. I find that not worrying about chokes let's me focus on what's important. I bought my BSS way back when they first mandated . If need be I'll use a non-tox load.

Yeah I got past playing with 3” when I had that hardware store HE Fox . My handloaded 3” 1 5/8 ounce loads were eye opening to say the least !:bigbye:

[Greg Baehman]

I hear that Trump shoots a Sporting Clays Classic.

[John Dallas]

And shoots it better than any human has ever done before

[Chuck Loveless]

Did all these guns have 3" and steel shot capability? Thanks, Chuck

[Greg Baehman]

Did all these guns have 3" and steel shot capability? Thanks, Chuck
Every SCC that I've measured and every brochure and article written that I've read say the SCCs have 3" chambers, despite every SCC that I've seen are stamped as having 2 3/4" chambers on the left barrel. Per the manufacturer, the SCC is fine and fully capable of shooting steel shot providing modified or more open choke tubes are installed when shooting steel.

How is yours stamped and what is your gun's chamber length actually measure?

[David C Porter]

My SCC is marked 2 3/4" & measures 3"

[Chuck Loveless]

You're right, mine is marked 2 3/4" G grade and has 3" chambers. Thanks for the info. Actually shooting it tomorrow in a 100 bird sporting clays DU tournament. Chuck

[allen newell]

Does Trump really shoot a shotgun?

[Arthur Shaffer]

I have never seen a reference to him hunting or shooting, but he may participate in a social situation, given his friends and associates. His two sons are intense big game hunters and well spoken of often on the better big game hunting sites. I seem to remember a comment by Trump in an interview to the effect that he didn't understand the draw for them but supported their activities totally and respected their abilities in the endeavour.

[edgarspencer]

I have never seen a reference to him hunting or shooting, but he may participate in a social situation, given his friends and associates. His two sons are intense big game hunters and well spoken of often on the better big game hunting sites. I seem to remember a comment by Trump in an interview to the effect that he didn't understand the draw for them but supported their activities totally and respected their abilities in the endeavour.

I met Don Jr at the Orvis Game Fair several years ago. He had just bought a Model 12.