Greener questions

[Marty Kohler]

I have always wanted a 20 gauge greener. Maybe it is because of the one Gene Hill liked so much that he imagined who might have owned it originally and wrote a story about it. I had the opportunity to buy a very light 5 lb. 11 ounce 12 gauge with a very petite frame which is very close to my double (00) frame on my VHE 28. I purchased a couple of boxes of 2 1/2” RST shells for it.

Wondering where I could find out more about this gun. Graham Greener is no longer doing letters or doing any research which is fine. He gave me two names .....Mr. Dryhurst and a Mr. Tandy which to this point I haven’t heard back from. Does anyone here have information to share?
Serial # 50498. I believe 1901 0r so
Min wall thickness .027 both barrels
Bore 10” from Breech L. .787 choke.030 R .734 choke .010
Proofed at 1 1/4 oz with a 70 Marking
Chambers 2 5/8”

Any and all thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you

[Marty Kohler]

Pictures..... 12 gauge Greener
28 gauge 00 frame

[Marty Kohler]

Pics

[Phil Yearout]

Nice! The Greener Gene wrote about was actually a 16ga, 24" barrels. But his closing is classic Gene: Here's to you, old friend, who made this perfect gun come true. And I promise that as long as woodcock whistle and good dogs sleep at our feet while we sit before the fire and drink whiskey...you'll be remembered.

[Marty Kohler]

Thanks for that Phil...I saw your picture of your gun cabinet a while ago and I think mine is it’s brother....very similar.

[edgarspencer]

Nice! The Greener Gene wrote about was actually a 16ga, 24" barrels. But his closing is classic Gene: Here's to you, old friend, who made this perfect gun come true. And I promise that as long as woodcock whistle and good dogs sleep at our feet while we sit before the fire and drink whiskey...you'll be remembered.

I just re-read that chapter last night......for the 20th time. What made Hill's gun even more special was the sum total of it's weight, the 24", single trigger, and, most unusual, the top safety.

[Daryl Corona]

Beautiful gun. Shoot it in good health.

[Kevin McCormack]

VERY nice Greener Marty! What grade is it? I owned a 20 ga. FH 35 Greener very briefly that had a broken ejector train on one barrel. Correspondence from Graham Greener at the time detailed the extensive process and considerable cost for repair (essentially rebuilding the entire ejector train) which I decided not to pursue. I sold the gun to a gentleman who had had work like that done before by Greener and didn't care about the cost, import/export hassles, shipping, etc.

I am not familiar with Mr. Tandy, but on our second trip to Scotland for driven birds, our trip organizer Jim Baker, who has had some fabulous guns built by Greener, invited David Dryhurst up for dinner at St. Andrews one evening. He was a most delightful fellow and gave us a "living history" of the origins, development, and marketing of Greener guns. It was quite riveting hearing (as they say) the "rest of the story."

Thank you for the great pics!

[Jay Oliver]

That's a beautiful Greener. A light 12 proofed to 1 1/4...that might kick a little. I like light 12s and do very well with 3/4oz loads. That is a very nice gun that you would have a lot of fun with.

Here is Gene Hill's Greener that I was lucky enough to acquire this past year. I have posted a few pictures on the forum previously. As others have said, it's a 1912 16ga. with 24" barrels. original pad, single selective trigger choked IC/M with ejectors and that top tang safety. It shoots very well and I like the shorter barrels. Hoping to take my first woodcock with it in a few weeks...

[Keith Sirmans]

Wow what a greener! I would definitely use that light 12 with light loads.

[Marty Kohler]

Jay.....I had seen your previous post and am very envious. If I had known that that gun was available you would have gotten a run for your money. I had thought about PMing you to try and take it off your hands as I am a big Gene Hill fan. Thanks for posting again and when you take that first Woodcock somewhere Gene will be smiling. Good luck with it.

[Marty Kohler]

Kevin.... I was hoping someone here could direct me to a source where I could find out what grade it is. I also was wondering if this very lite 12 gauge was a special order or are 12’s this light rather common? I had seen letters before on Greener’s and am sorry Graham has discontinued this service. I am hoping someone will continue to provide Greener information. I will continue to use google in my search for that someone.

Any comments again are appreciated. Thanks.

[Drew Hause]

Marty: we could confirm the 1896-1904 date of proof with a close up of the barrel flats. It should be marked '1 1/4 oz Max'.
1904-1925 would be '1 1/4 oz Shot'.

Under the 1896 Rules of Proof 12g 2 1/2” and 2 5/8” chambers (bore .710-.740) were proved for a maximum service load
of 3 1/4 Dram Eq. with 1 1/4 oz. shot. (1220 fps)
Under the 1904 Revisions, Supplementary Nitro Proof for 12g 2 1/2” and 2 5/8” chambers was for a service load 1 1/8 oz.

'70' (without mm) would be a post 1989 chamber length mark, but if reproved after honing it should have a Crown over R and be marked with bore in mm and BAR, and will have a Proof House date code

Bore 10” from Breech L. .787 choke.030 R .734 choke .010
That is .737" on L?

Cornell Pubs has 1900, 03', 04' & 06' Greener catalog repros so if we can narrow down the DOM you could order the appropriate catalog to ID the grade
https://cornellpubs.com/product-tag/w/page/4/

[Jay Oliver]

Thanks Marty,

I saw from your profile that you were from western New York, that's not too far away from Rhode Island. We'll have to meet up at a shoot or sporting clay place at some point. I would be happy let you shoot that Gene Hill Greener. I have read and listen to the audio book a thousand times. When I saw the description in an auction, I knew that it was the "Woodcock" gun. By the way, the narrator does a great job on the audio book:

Listen to A Hunter's Fireside Book by Gene Hill on Audible. https://www.audible.com/pd/B00BAZQWUG?source_code=ASSOR150021921000R

Also I didn't mean to take away from your wonderful Greener, I just posted since everyone was talking about that chapter. Your Greener does seem to be a much higher grade. I looks like it has IC/F chokes, which is my favorite combination. It is a beautiful gun!

Have you had a chance to shoot it much? How long are the barrels? 26? That would be great with 1oz loads too. That is probably what I would use if I was hunting. And 3/4 or 7/8 if I was target shooting. I hope you enjoy it!

[Marty Kohler]

Dr. Drew... Thanks very much for sharing your knowledge. Yes....L 737

I believe 1901 ...

[Keith Sirmans]

I lost my greener book in the hurricane but I'll see what I can find on it

[Marty Kohler]

Jay... Thanks for your comments and sharing the link. I have a double cassette that was sold with Gene Hill himself narrating his stories. It's called "Being There".

Yes 26" Barrels
Just got it...

These loads were pricey but I wanted paper and RST was out of stock on the others..

[Drew Hause]

You are correct Marty. The proof dates to 1896-1904 and there is no reproof.
The original bore was 13/1 = .719" - .728" so the L barrel at .737" is still in proof.
Please let us know what you find in the Greener catalog.

[Marty Kohler]

Dr. Drew, Thanks again....Ordered 1903 and 1904 Hopefully they will be nice reprints.

I am still going to try and secure a letter from whomever.

[Phil Yearout]

My set of Being There is a bootleg set on CD’s.