Learning to shoot the .410

[todd allen]

This is with an AYA #4, and not a Parker, but the dynamics would be the same.
It's just a matter of a 4 digit instead of a 5 digit price.
I, for one, struggle with the "little guns", but will keep trying.
https://youtu.be/MPO7pAFYVRE

[Garry L Gordon]

Todd, I acquired an H&H hammer gun and a Parker VH, both in .410. I have hunted dove (walking them up) with the H&H with good results, and I'm saving the Parker for some Missouri woodcock when flights arrive this Fall.

After watching your video, maybe one needs to speak with an accent to shoot a .410 well. Our PGCA colleague Stan Hillis is obviously a seriously good wing shot with his .410s. I'll bet he has a Southern accent, so maybe either acquiring an English or Southern accent will help our shooting.:rotf:

I'll try Southern, you can give the British version a try.:corn:

(Thanks for sharing the video!)

[todd allen]

I don't know if I have ever seen an H&H in .410. Can you post a couple of pics?

[Garry L Gordon]

The .410 barrels are late additions. I have the original 28 bore barrels which work just fine for me, too.

How come you didn't refer to me as "bloke?":) (Sorry, I could not resist.)

[Bill Murphy]

It's much more enjoyable to watch those videos with the audio turned off. Closed captions would be a plus.

[Gerald McPherson]

What did them fellers saye anyhow?

[Dave Noreen]

I find vintage American .410-bore doubles very hard to shoot. Their over-sized frames and the heavy butt end of the barrels puts way too much of the weight between the hands and those little whippy barrels out front are near impossible to control. A lot easier to shoot my seven-pound Browning Superposed .410 bore. For the last eleven years of my NSSA Skeet shooting career I was shooting a tubed Remington Model 3200 so I was shooting a nine-pound six-ounce .410 bore!!

[Kevin McCormack]

What Dave said - I owned 2 Parker .410s, a VH and a GHE, both 26 inch barrels. Also had an LC Smith Field Grade .410 with 28 inch barrels in the same era. The Smith I could shoot decently; trying to shoot low gun skeet or SC with either of the Parkers necessitated the gyrations of throwing a casting net for minnows for me. WAAAY to whippy for field shooting; reminded me of floor exercises at the Olympics with a Hula Hoop.

[Stan Hillis]

I can assure you guys that getting to be proficient with a .410 is light years easier with longer barrels. I began using .410 S X Ss at age 8, and now 63 years later I have formed some opinions about them. I want the longest barrels on mine that I can get. I currently own three .410 doubles with 30" barrels. I've also found that using them on game requires quite a different shooting technique than I use with my larger bore doubleguns. With the very light .410s I begin my "move" towards the mount by swinging the muzzles on the bird from a low gun position. I fire almost immediately upon the butt being seated in my shoulder pocket. With bigger bore guns I have a much more deliberate move ......... mounting the gun before making the "move" and establishing lead.

My three current 30" barreled .410 doubleguns:

https://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/71279_1024x768.jpg (https://www.jpgbox.com/page/71279_1024x768/)

However, I am still searching for the perfect .410 double ........... maybe a 32" ????????

[Bill Murphy]

Stan's problem is solved. A new gun.

[CraigThompson]

However, I am still searching for the perfect .410 double ........... maybe a 32" ????????

I’ve never had one of the Browning 725 32” 410’s in my hands but if the same thing in a 28 gauge is any indication I wouldn’t be adverse to a 32” 725 410 .

[Stan Hillis]

I'd love to try Murphy's long barreled Skeeter on some flying targets. I've never seen a 30" Skeeter .410 in person. Bring her down to Rick's for the Fall Southern, Bill. I'll bring cash.....

[Bill Murphy]

I am amazed at the price of .410 Skeeters recently. The price of my 30" gun surprised everyone who saw me buying it. Now "over $5000" is common. The easiest way to shoot a 32" .410 is to send one of your 32" 20 gauge 0 frame Parkers to Briley to be tubed. That may be my next project.

[Dave Noreen]

Stan would look good with one of those 32-inch BHE .410-bores!!

[Stan Hillis]

Bill, I could never bring myself to send my beautiful 32" DHE 20 gauge tubes to Briley, or anywhere else that I couldn't drive them in person. They're just too precious, and beautiful, to entrust to any shipping.

[John Davis]

After watching your video, maybe one needs to speak with an accent to shoot a .410 well. Our PGCA colleague Stan Hillis is obviously a seriously good wing shot with his .410s. I'll bet he has a Southern accent, so maybe either acquiring an English or Southern accent will help our shooting.:rotf:

I'll try Southern, you can give the British version a try.:corn:

(Thanks for sharing the video!)

I assure you, it ain’t the accent.

[Stan Hillis]

I don't have a Southern accent ......... everyone else, not from around he'ah, just talks funny.

[Garry L Gordon]

I assure you, it ain’t the accent.

Aw, Shucks, I lost my Southern accent years ago when I left Virginia, and I was hoping to use that as my excuse for my poor shooting. I guess I’ll have to come up with a new excuse. :crying:

[Stan Hillis]

Belaboring an accent (or expletives), Southern or not, can lead to it being ignored, kinda like in the case of the boy who cried wolf. The trick is in using such appropriately, and judiciously.

Overdoing anything is not good, temperance being the key. :nono:

[Dean Romig]

Moderation is for monks... :cool:





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[Mike Koneski]

Learning to shoot a .410 is easy. Just start shooting it and shoot like it's any other double you use. You'll be breaking targets in no time. Just keep at it and don't overthink it.

[todd allen]

My problem is that all of my target shooting, and most of my hunting is done with full size 12 gauge guns, with the longer barrels being my preference.
My one .410 double is a diminutive little thing with 26" barrels. It definitely moves differently.

[Jay Oliver]

I enjoy shooting a 410 as well. The Parker 410 VH I have is a 26", but it shoot's like a dream. I do think tight chokes make a 410 shine. Would love to find a quality 410 sxs with 30" or 32" barrels.

I have a Citori 410 with 28" barrels that I have used to train my dogs and have fun with sporting clays. I don't shoot it much any more. It is a wonderful shooting gun and there aren't many targets I shoot with a 12 that I can't get with that 410. It does have screw chokes and the best thing I did was get a set of Briley chokes which are so much better than the factory chokes.

I think you just have to start shooting a 410 more like Mike said. I don't think it is always barrel length either. I have a 24" 28ga VH and a 24" 16ga Greener that do very well all around the sporting clays course and in the field.

[Stan Hillis]

My problem is that all of my target shooting, and most of my hunting is done with full size 12 gauge guns, with the longer barrels being my preference.
My one .410 double is a diminutive little thing with 26" barrels. It definitely moves differently.

That is why I use a different shooting style with the .410. I just have to because of the difference in weight, and time it takes to establish lead with a much lighter gun. It's still tough. If I shot them more it would get better, but the hardest thing about shooting game birds with a .410, when you also shoot them with bigger bores, is making yourself limit the range that you will attempt take a bird to 30 yards. I kill them at 35 with the .410, but I have to tell myself 30 is the max. Otherwise I will be trying at yardages where the pattern density is just too thin. If you absolutely center a dove with a good 3/4 oz. load at 40 yds., and a tight choke, I've no doubt it will go down. However, the devil's in the details, and I cannot be assured of centering the dove in my pattern everytime, thus the 30 yard rule.

[allen newell]

I love shooting my 410 Iver Johnson Skeeter. They only made 500 of these. It's pure joy to shoot skeet with. Have shot pheasants with it over my setter. Great little gun and gauge

[todd allen]

My .410 is a lowly Ithaca Lefever Nitro Special, which I have posted here before.
I restocked it myself with some Cecil Fredi wood, and it fits me well. It has been in my opening day dove rotation for quite a few years, and has given me good service over the years.
That said, it is a tiny little feather-weight, compared to my 12s, and requires a different touch.
I think my preseason warm-up should include exercises of pointing a cue stick at passing doves, to get ready for the little gun.
I am only partly kidding here.

[Stan Hillis]

My .410 is a lowly Ithaca Lefever Nitro Special, which I have posted here before.
I restocked it myself with some Cecil Fredi wood, and it fits me well. It has been in my opening day dove rotation for quite a few years, and has given me good service over the years.
That said, it is a tiny little feather-weight, compared to my 12s, and requires a different touch.
I think my preseason warm-up should include exercises of pointing a cue stick at passing doves, to get ready for the little gun.
I am only partly kidding here.

I understand what you mean EXACTLY, Todd.

[Donald McQuade]

Until recently I have had very poor results on clays with a 410. I have tried several over/unders and side x sides, including my buddies beautiful, scaled frame RBL, and just can't seem to break even easy targets with any consistency. Then, early this year I acquired a Win Model 42. The Shoot ability of that little gun is amazing. I was breaking targets at distances I had no business shooting, and consistently posting decent scores on the SC range. I guess that little Winchester will keep me buying 410 shells while I continue my search for a 410 double that I won't embarrass myself with on the clays range.

[todd allen]

Years ago at a SC shoot in Mesquite NV the HOA win was by an old man who rode a bicycle between stations, and turned in a 90 x 100 with a M 42 Winchester .410, beating all the young men with their 12s.

[Dean Romig]

Hooray for the old guys who know their stuff.





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[Bill Murphy]

I probably only own about a dozen or two .410s if you don't count Model 42s. The 42s bring the total up to 50 or more. If I had to give up all but one or two shotguns, the ones I would keep would be .410s. Both of my PW 800B .410 loaders are broken, but I am not out of shells yet. I am tempted to put the .410 dies back in my PW 375, a most reliable loader. I bought my 375 the first week they were available, but converted it to 16 gauge a few decades ago. The only .410s I can recall selling are a high condition L.C. Smith and a nice donut post vent rib Model 42 skeet, both sold to friends who pressured me to sell them.

[todd allen]

Here is a pretty good video of some Master Class .410 shooting, if you can get past the British accents, and the obvious plug for the Rizzini .410.
The take-away here for me is the gentle minimalistic movement of the older gentleman.
Also loved the Spaniel, who accompanied the shooters.
https://youtu.be/wVnLIINOxn4

[allen newell]

welcome to my world

[Bill Murphy]

Turn off the audio and you can enjoy these videos. Two societies divided by a common language.

[todd allen]

They say look for a sign. Got out of the shower, and my pants spoke to me.
Of course I had to swivel my silver buckle into the shot
119933

[Frank Srebro]

I’ve never had one of the Browning 725 32” 410’s in my hands but if the same thing in a 28 gauge is any indication I wouldn’t be adverse to a 32” 725 410 .

A friend has a Browning 725 Sporting in 410/32" and it works well for him but looks a bit ungainly to my eyes. Based on that perception I bought a 725 Sporting in 410/30". I also shoot Winchester Model 42's and with the longer sighting plane to include the 42 receiver a 26" barrel sights like a 29", 28" barrel like a 31". Protocol for me: use the 725 until the hulls are just about kaput for reloading and then shuck them through one of the 42's.

[Stan Hillis]

They say look for a sign. Got out of the shower, and my pants spoke to me.
Of course I had to swivel my silver buckle into the shot
119933

Very fitting that the 410 jeans are "athletic slim". What brand, Todd?

[todd allen]

They say "Lucky Brand", which is funny because my Internet handle is Luckydog.

[Bill Murphy]

Todd, the minimalist movements are probably the result of untreated torn rotator cuff. I know from experience.

[todd allen]

When I was growing my game in the target world, I learned a lot from the older guys in the game. Steve Carmichael, Earl Scripture, Dan Bonillas, etc.
Steve C. told me that the more gun movement you made, the more chance you had of missing the target.
The challenge with the "little guns" for me has always been slowing the 12 ga target gun muscle memory input that gets applied to the little gun.
I like to start the dove season here with something different like the .410, or in this year's case, a somewhat diminutive Parker 16 hammer gun.
I started the dove season with 4 misses in a row with the 16.
The bore size is less of an issue than the weight and dynamics of the "little guns", and is something I sometimes struggle with.
I started my target shooting career with a Model 12 30" vent rib trap gun, that I also used on ducks.
As a kid, I shot that gun quite well! Then a svelte little 6 lb 20 ga SxS came into my life, and a light bulb came on. Less input, more game birds in the bag.
Then a Nitro Express .410 dropped into my collection, and later a beautiful little NID .410.
The need for a light touch and minimalist input really came into focus with the .410s.

[Bill Murphy]

Yup, the .410 requires a light touch as well as many rounds. When I knew what end the shot comes out, a few years ago, I ran 246X250 with my Model 42 Cutts gun, all rounds back to back. I was out to shoot just a couple of rounds of practice, but just kept shooting as long as I was doing well. I have never shot my regular K-32 skeet gun as well. My friend, Kevin McCormack, shoots sporting clays with a .410 Citori and does as well as with bigger guns.

[Mike Koneski]

When I was growing my game in the target world, I learned a lot from the older guys in the game. Steve Carmichael, Earl Scripture, Dan Bonillas, etc.
Steve C. told me that the more gun movement you made, the more chance you had of missing the target.


Todd, as my first coach taught me decades ago, "Random gun movement loses targets." I agree with Steve C. 100%. :clap:

[allen newell]

I stumbled upon a near mint 410 Iver Johnson sxs locally a while back. Shoot skeet with it. Love it!

[Loren A Wilcox]

One thing to remember you aim a rifle and you point a shotgun.

[Stan Hillis]

You aim a rifle 99% of the time. However, when you shoot a rifle at a moving target, such as a running deer, you shoot it exactly as you would a shotgun at a flying bird.

Just my personal experience.