Boss copper-plated bismuth shot shells

[henderson Marriott]

In the very recent AHFCA Fox News Issue, there is a featured article on
duck hunting and patterning tests by Jeff Stegmeier involving Fox, Parker, Lefever and C. Daly shotguns.

The writer experienced separation of Boss copper plated bismuth #5
shot shells in his HE Super Fox gun. The pattern tests involved all five
shotguns, with only the Super Fox turning in evidence of poor patterns and apparent disintegration or lack of integrity with shot-or "peeling off" of the copper plating. The author objectively stated that this only happened with copper plated bismuth Boss shells. His HE Fox patterned very nicely with non-plated bismuth shells.

The article features a table of pattern results. The author does point out that it occurred only in his individual gun, and readers are advised to test their own guns as results may vary.

[charlie cleveland]

chokes might be to tight in the fox....charlie

[Dean Romig]

That's pretty bizarre Henderson.





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[henderson Marriott]

Since I have a 3in Super Fox, and some of these same shells; like
Sherman Bell, may find out for myself. Since my 3-in guns are mainly for geese and turkey,
it pays to check. Have had good luck with bismuth in LC Smith Long Range 3-in guns,
but NOT copper plated.

[Stan Hillis]

My 32", 3" chambered HE Fox has been patterned with BOSS Cu plated 1 1/4 oz. loads of #5s. These are the loads they don't advertise much, but are lower pressure shells loaded without plastic shot cups, but rather with fiber wads. I was surprised to see only 67-68% patterns with it. Since i was shooting at a grease plate and taking pics of the patterns to do pellet counts later I didn't notice any copper fragments or other evidence of fragmentation of pellets. But, that may well have been happening. I knew going in to expect lower percentage patterns with the loads with no shot cups, and the lady at BOSS I talked with had also told me to expect that.

I have not patterned the BOSS, higher pressure, shot cup loads yet in it, but will definitely use paper to do so and will look closely for evidence of fragmentation. BTW, my 3" chambered LC Smith pigeon gun patterned the same lower pressure BOSS loads only slightly tighter at nearly 70%.

I have used the BOSS shells for two years in my HE, on ducks, and have used hand loaded bismuth in it for many more years than that. As a casual observation, I have noticed no difference in the killing ability of the two. But again, that is not empirical evidence, just a casual observation. Very interesting stuff.

[henderson Marriott]

Good points, Stan.

The Fox article ironically states the problem occurred only with the author's 3 in
HE Super, which he stated is # 32577, and has a bore of .739 and a choke of .048.

He inspected his paper test targets on his test board and found deformed pellets,
copper "shrapnel" pieces, and pieces of broken pellets . The author is convinced
the pellets broke apart within his barrel, which means the damage probably occurred at or between the forcing cone and the long tapered and polished choke-or both.

Fox made three changes to the traditional barrel: they lengthened and polished the forcing cone;increased the bore of the barrel, and third, they developed a long gradual choke with a highly finished or polished surface. The purpose of these steps in the 30 or 32 in barrels was to create tight patterns AND prevent "flyers"-those little flattened lead pellets that head anywhere but at a mallard drake. Bert Becker is given credit for
much of this new barrel boring, and he definitely did a few including Nash Buckingham's famous HE: "Bo Whoop".

If the Boss version of these shells with pellet protected cup is used, the results might be totally different in the author's Super Fox. Of course, these internal shot cups were not used in the 1920s and 30's so its apples and oranges as the protected shot column heads down the bore. I think Silvers and I have often wondered about that in our Long Range Smiths and Super Fox 3 in guns.

As an aside, the author's Super Fox produced 82.5% pellet count using regular bismuth non-plated Kent 1 1/16th oz #5 shot shells -against a 30 in pattern circle at 40 yards.
(The highest percentage of any of the 5 test shotguns-out of the right barrel-.048
choke constriction, also the greatest amount of constriction.)

As to my 30 inch Super Fox, two Long Range LC Smiths, and a Parker 3-in VHE--
I am going to be even more selective about which non-toxic shells go into their chambers for geese and even more so about shells fed to them -while chasing the elusive Eastern wild turkey.

[Dean Romig]

Bismuth being harder and more prone to fracture than lead, I wonder about the ability (or non ability) or bismuth shot to molecularly adhere to the copper plating in certain tightly choked guns...?





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[henderson Marriott]

I think that you have made a very good point , Dean. The constriction or other factors
in the makeup of forcing cone-choking may have tipped the metallurgy scales enough to cause flaking and disintegration of a portion of the copper-plated bismuth shot... at least in this 3-in Fox.

It does beg the question whether Boss research did extensive tests to determine the
end user performance of its plated bismuth against unplated bismuth shot pellets.

But again we come to the old truism that every shotgun is a law unto itself.

[Stan Hillis]

It may well be that it could be determined that above a certain number of points of constriction we get fragmentation, and that below that we don't. It's an interesting concept anyway, and worthy of further examination, IMO.

Henderson, has it been determined for certain that the author's (Jeff) BOSS loads were the low pressure ones? I don't recall the article mentioning that one way or the other, so I actually assumed that they were the standard (higher pressure) ones. One of your posts above made me think that you somehow knew that the loads he used for the testing in the article were the low pressure, fiber wad ones. But, I could have read something into your post that you did not mean.

[henderson Marriott]

Author Stegmeier used Boss copper-plated bismuth 2 3/4 in shells with 1 1/4 oz No. 5 sized shot,
and these appear to be the fiber wad variety @ 1275 fps velocity. He does not mention shell pressure levels in his article details. I have a small number of these same Boss shells.

I am reasonably certain that if shot cup Boss shells were used instead of the fiber wad variety, his pellet shot percentages on target might possibly go up, along with less damaged or disintegrating pellets and copper fragmentation.
While not knowing for certain, I think his velocity achieved indicates the higher pressure
shells offered by Boss.

I am planning on re-testing my own waterfowl/turkey guns with some newer shells
and may test the author's findings in my own Fox and Smiths.

[Frank Srebro]

The Boss bismuth continues to be described by Ridge and others as copper plated. Is that correct or is it merely copper washed for aesthetics and marketing appeal?

[Stan Hillis]

I have wondered the same thing, Frank. I've combed their website looking for clues but can only find references to copper plating. I'm aware of the difference, and that in other settings, such as nickel plating, it is very hard to find true plated shot. I load a specialty load for doves with nickel plated shot from Precision Reloading that is specified as being true plating, electro-plated. I read somewhere once that they source it from Italy.

But, given the lack of specifics on the BOSS shot I wonder, like you.

[henderson Marriott]

Good question. The author describes after the first trial that he found "several small flecks of copper plating" in the paper target. Looking at the picture provided by Jeff Stegmeier in the Fox Newsletter article, it appears that the small pieces are plated. The pieces described as "shrapnel" because of their broken condition-are " plated".

Alternatively, copper-washed bismuth pellets might possibly be better than plating,
as the surface treatment is very thin-closer to true bismuth alone.
It does raise another question: could the copper "plating" process itself be contributing
to the issue? Possibly the process could be causing the bismuth pellets to become
brittle, lending them to be more susceptible to the physics of velocity, mass and constriction of the choke. I do wish the author had used more of the Boss treated bismuth in other shotguns, rather than just the HE Fox. That said-the Kent pure bismuth shells still had the best performance in the 3-in Super of all guns in the pattern trial.

We are left with questions and few answers at present. The process Boss uses I do think may be a factor.

[henderson Marriott]

The Boss shot shell company is located in Stephensville, MI. I contacted them
earlier today and they affirmed that their shot pellets are "copper plated"
in the U.S. Their company site emphasizes "copper plated" bismuth, even
stating their unique position in the industry with the process.
A Boss tech representative will be contacting me next week; he is out-of-town.

More to follow...like what is the company that does their shot "plating? {Stan and I have a dog in this hunt, as we both own Super Fox guns and have a few Boss shells.}

[Aaron Beck]

Ive never had an issue with those shells but if I were looking for "issues" i would guess the ultimate alloy matrix of the "bismuth" was more responsible for fracture than the copper.

[Stan Hillis]

I have "scrounged" bismuth shot from some strange sources for reloading. I once won an auction for four small bottles of SARCO bismuth shot samples, in different sizes, that had been pulled from the production line for testing, etc. I put it through the "pliers test" and it squeezed without cracking or fracturing, much like lead does. Don't know that I've ever opened a BOSS shell to do that, but it might be a good idea, for kicks and giggles.

[Aaron Beck]

The boss shot will fracture on the anvil, so will the shot ive gotten from bpi. ive never tried roto metals
but the boss shells sure smack ducks dead.

[Frank Srebro]

I doubt Jeff used a microscope to confirm/deny thick copper "plating". Without an objective analysis who's to say the pellet flakes referenced in his report were flaked heavy copper or bismuth flakes with a copper wash .....I suppose you could call that thin electroplating. Just my thinking but when someone says plating I'm remembering the relatively thick chromium plating on steel automobile bumpers before they changed bumpers to polymers; if not done properly that chrome though relatively thick would flake off in strips with exposure and over time.

Another point I wonder about is if Boss uses relatively pure elemental Bismuth or an alloy like the 90% Bismuth/10% Tin composition as in the excellent Eley-Hawk non-tox shotshells. They tested well at various distances for efficiency (patterning) and penetration in dry pine.

Another question, as I understand it the USFWS has a list of approved non-tox pellets. If anyone is talking with Boss you might ask if Copper (a heavy metal) is on that list for use while waterfowl hunting.

[Allen Peterson]

Last year I patterned some Boss 3 inch out of my Fox wildfowl and Winchester m21 duck..Patterns about the same as lead. both kill geese. if there is fracturing, I have not noticed it hunting. The only gripe I have is the shells are beautiful but prone to corrosion in the blind bag. do not leave them in the blind bag after the hunt

[Stan Hillis]

What exactly do you mean by "blind bag", Allen? Are you referring to the canvas bag that BOSS supplies free when you order case lots, or to something like a camo bag sold for transporting stuff to and from the blind?

[henderson Marriott]

Not mentioned to date is the possibility of an errant issue lot of extra brittle or otherwise
substandard bismuth "plated" shot -supplied to Boss- from the shot company.
This upcoming week may supply some answers to our questions from the Boss tech folks.

[Stan Hillis]

Looking forward to reading their reply, Ridge.

[henderson Marriott]

Well folks, the plot thickens...

The Boss process is proprietary and within the industry, they have the copper -plating
process patents. Kent, Winchester use tin -plating. Mono-metal, shot supplier state they do no plating. Federal-Hevi are allegedly under the same company, and use unplated bismuth, apparently. Most of the others tin-plate or alloy their bismuth shot;OR order it from the bismuth shot manufacturer. The research shows that bismuth is both soft-close to the Atomic weight of lead-but it has brittle properties that may be related to the shot
forming process. Those who are brass case rifle cartridge reloaders know that brass work-hardens and may need annealing. The plating process that Boss uses is patented, and they were a bit closed-mouthed to research inquiries.

After the cost of tungsten or tungsten alloy shot became almost prohibitive,
the shot shell industry returned to bismuth. Most of this research in non-toxic shot metals is driven by waterfowl hunting and the non-toxic legislation requirements of the US FWS- as we know-hence earlier steel shot.

It is recommended that our fraternity of older double users, particularly hunters, read
the "Bismuth Shot Shell Review" under The New Hunters Guide" Series-
written by George Konetes, PhD-Feb 2023.

It was very informative on the latest bismuth brands, and their strong points or limitations.
Boss was rated highly, so we still may never get a final answer on that lot of Boss shells
within Jeff's Super. I suspect excessive brittleness. The Dr. Konetes Bismuth review mentions problems with
brittle shot pellets that other makers encountered. There were mentions of other rough bismuth pellets, particularly Hevi
bismuth. The Bismuth Shot Shell Review is recent and objective: recommended online reading.

[Allen Peterson]

What exactly do you mean by "blind bag", Allen? Are you referring to the canvas bag that BOSS supplies free when you order case lots, or to something like a camo bag sold for transporting stuff to and from the blind?Stan I'm talking about a zipper bag I carry in the boat or field blind . its got Ammo, calls, lunch and a thermos of coffee hand warmers ect. I haven't figured out a good use for the canvas bag that boss sometimes throws in . Its a cool little bag though

[Stan Hillis]

Ridge, thanks for the report. I will definitely read Konetes' review.

Thanks, Allen. I thought that's what you meant, but wasn't sure. I carry my loose BOSS shells in that canvas bag, in another blind bag, but always return the unused ones to the big box when I get home. Never noticed any corrosion, in 2 1/2 yrs. of use.

Edit to add: Ridge, I found lots of references to Konetes' pod cast but cannot find the article. Do you have a link to it, possibly?

[henderson Marriott]

Stan:

Pair "The New Hunter's Guide" with Konetes Feb 23 -"Bismuth Shot Shell Review".
Alternatively, run Bismuth Shot Shell Review. That should get you there.

[Frank Srebro]

Do a Google search for "copper plated bismuth shot patent" and you'll find a PDF of a patent application by Inventor Brandon Cerecke. Legalese in the application is a little hard to follow.

[henderson Marriott]

Jeff Stegmeier, who wrote of the problem with Boss shot in the AHFCA News Letter,
and I have been communicating on the shot shell issues.
He also has an inquiry ongoing with Boss, Inc.

The Boss patent author, Cerecke, also happens to be the Boss owner and CEO. In addition to copper plating, Boss supplied shot pellets may have cores of tin-bismuth alloy.
If tin is alloyed with bismuth, the percentage may affect the brittleness of shot.
It appears that Boss has the sole copper-plating patent on bismuth, but we don't know for sure that their plating of Boss shot is in-house or sub-contracted out.
Perhaps the CEO will let us know.
This has been an interesting PGCA-AHFCA joint effort. Some of you like me, may be members of both collector associations. We learn from each other.

[Frank Srebro]

In addition to Bismuth shot efficiency (pattern %) we should also hear about the other important parameter = penetration at increasing distance as the shot velocity drops off. What good is a certain % of pellets on paper at X yards if the shot rattles off the duck or goose, or worse yet only has shallow penetration and the bird flies away to suffer a lingering death? The old time medium for testing to insure deep penetration into the vitals is that the shot pellet(s) would pass completely through a 3/8" thick dry pine board. That along with the number of pellet strikes on the bird will set the max humane range for any given shotgun with that shotshell whether loaded with Bismuth, lead or whatever.

[Mike Koneski]

Guaranteed more birds have died from crippling injuries sustained from ineffective non-tox loads than ever succumbed to ingesting lead from the bottoms of wetlands. The enviro-nuts and antis can blow all the smoke they want to, but I'm not buying any of it. Just sayin'. :corn:

[Stan Hillis]

Agreed, Mike. But, it's not really about the ducks ...... it's about control, and "green agendas".

[Mike Koneski]

100% correct Stan.

[tom tutwiler]

Here is the link I believe.

https://www.newhuntersguide.com/2023/02/01/best-bismuth-shotshells-review-boss-kent-winchester-hevi/

[henderson Marriott]

This is the somewhat modified article by the same author. He did his own research and may have updated it. Both patterning % and density is covered as well as the important factor of penetration. Boss is well treated, with later mention of "Warchief" bismuth shell development.
The jury may remain out on Boss copper plated bismuth shot performance and disintegration. If the problem is experienced by other known hunters or PGCA members,
please let us know.

As an aside, there is at least one other small TSS/Bismuth shot shell manufacturer
that advertises copper-plated bismuth loaded shells. If so, these may be surface washed or treated-rather than plated to avoid patent infringement with BOSS.
More due diligence inquiry to follow.

[henderson Marriott]

The Salt Creek Ammunition Co. of Nephi, UT.
offers copper plated bismuth shells in 10 GA , 12 GA and other shot shell sizes.
(Maybe they have worked a deal with BOSS for copper-plated bismuth shot purchase.)

Additionally, their site and catalog offer shot shell reduced pressures to 6500PSI, and mentioned damascus or twist steel along with manufacturers LC Smith and Parker Bros.
Most interesting. Possibly filling a perceived niche.
Who knows-next will be black powder bismuth shells commercially available.