Never say never with Parkers….

[Josh Loewensteiner]

Factory documented 2-1/2 frame. 10ga/12ga two barrel set, with case.

[Brian Dudley]

That is likely the dimension over the breech balls. That is how the frame sizes were documented in the earlier stock books. I know that Chuck currently does not usually put information on frame size in the letters since it is not always shown on the stock book pages. And also these earlier outside dimensions listed add to confusion.

This has all been discussed before.

[Brian Dudley]

2-1/2” would be the outside measurement of the breech balls on a number 3 frame.

My guess is that you have this gun in your posession? How is the barrel lug marked?

[Dean Romig]

Not necessarily Brian. I have older Parkers than 1891 wuth actual frame sizes stamped on the bottom of the rear lug.





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[Brian Dudley]

Did I say that? No. I know that this era of manufacture would have the frame size on the lug.

[Dean Romig]

Well it’s a bit confusing Brian, to me at least, that the letter specifies a #2 1/2frame yet guns of that era had the frame size stamped on the lug, which we knew as a scale of measurements between firing pin centers yet the referenced size (2 1/2{and it doesn’t reference inches “} is one we’ve never heard of before…
My opinion is that it is simply a matter of semantics and the confusion was initiated at the factory using different descriptions?…maybe? I dunno….

[Brian Dudley]

That is my assumption, but since actual frame measurements or details on lug markings were not provided. We are left to speculate based on what we know.

There has been past discussion based on earlier records where the outside frame dimension is recorded in the stock books leading one to deduce that this was “shop speak” for identifying frames. Barrels are the only component marked with “frame sizes”. So the workers way of identifying and referring to the actual frame was by the outside measurement over the breech balls before shoe filing.

In those discussions I recall Chuck stating that he does not add information on frame sizes to letters since it is not always clearly stated, as with the later records. And with the outside measurements being thrown into the mix, it makes for confusion. Vs. Previous research chairs, in this case Ron Kirby, chose to include any and all information put down as it was written.

[CraigThompson]

So this bad boy “should have” 2 1/2 stamped on the barrel lug ?

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Interesting choke request, RH -mod, LH-cyl

[Bill Murphy]

Yes, I have owned Parkers whose PGCA letter mentions a 2 1/2 frame, which is, as I recall, a #3 frame.

[Russell E. Cleary]

Interesting choke request, RH -mod, LH-cyl


For waterfowl flying into a gunner's "stool", or decoy spread?

[Dean Romig]

I have a 2-frame 10 gauge with 30” Damascus barrels with rt-Full and left-IC and it has the 2 frame size stamped on the rear lug… but the width across the breech balls is a lot greater than 2” . Looks like 2 11/32”








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[CraigThompson]

I have a 2-frame 10 gauge with 30” Damascus barrels with rt-Full and left-IC and it has the 2 frame size stamped on the rear lug… but the width across the breech balls is a lot greater than 2” .
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I've got a Grade 1 top lever 10 gauge two barrel set 26 and 30 thats stamped as a 2 frame .

I like the sound of the gun this threads pertains to but I'd like it better if it were a 2 frame .

[Brian Dudley]

https://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=31980&highlight=Measurement

[Dean Romig]

Okaaaaay... I have LOTS of Austin's data and records on many aspects of Parker Bros. guns but even though those are my words, I have never seen any of his evidence of a
2 1/2-frame. I would love to know what he found and what references are made.





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[Craig Budgeon]

Dean, the measurement you have shown is 2 11/32", 17/32 is over a 1/2".

[Dean Romig]

You're right Craig - I'll edit my post to reflect your correction. Nonetheless, it's still greater than 2" by a long shot.





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[Rick Losey]

so, the PGCA letter says 2 1/2 frame- typo?

could Chuck look at the records for this serial number and see if the 2 1/2 reference might be to something else?

I once received a letter for a gun that had something odd in it, I asked for clarification and it turned out the records were misread due to odd notes - sometimes the the old writing styles cause issues

[edgarspencer]

"Special Instructions include..." Could imply either Customer's Instructions, or Factory Instructions. My guess that it is the former, and not the later, as the factory would certainly know no such frame previously existed.

[Steve Huffman]

I don't see that Josh has responded if he has the gun in question that might clear a lot of things up if its marked.

[Chuck Bishop]

Judge for yourself.

[Dean Romig]

Thanks Chuck- that doesn't leave anything out except for the fact that those specifications look to have been dictated by the customer and they were written by the person taking the order as dictated.

IMHO





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[Brian Dudley]

The OP is still pretty quiet on a follow up.

[CraigThompson]

The OP is still pretty quiet on a follow up.

The gun will surface in about 45 days in an auction listing .

[Alfred Houde]

Deleted.

[Joe Graziano]

I love the fact that this is as hotly debated as any political issue. It shows the passion of the Parker collector community. There are maybe 1000 people worldwide who would understand this conversation. It’s fascinating. I’m still looking for my 14 bore on a 1 1/4 frame with original 34 in barrels.

[Alfred Houde]

Deleted.

[Craig Budgeon]

Until someone produces a 2 1/2 frame Parker I will assume a clerical error or a customer request.

[Brian Dudley]

Until someone produces a 2 1/2 frame Parker I will assume a clerical error or a customer request.

Craig,

You should assume that any reference to a 2-1/2 frame the records equals a 3 frame. As that is the outside measurement of a 3 frame gun. Because that is what it is.

[Craig Budgeon]

Well Brian if the order taker had written 2 1/2" instead of 2 1/2, there would have been no necessity for this post.

[Dean Romig]

Better yet, if he had written 2 1/2” or 2 1/2-inch instead of “2 1/2 Frame” it would have eliminated any further discussion. There are probably a lot of things we can assume in this world of Parkers.





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[henderson Marriott]

I am beginning to regret being slow to respond to John A.'s 10 GA Parker DH -Titanic Steel-with sleeved barrels and 3 1/2 in chambers- offered months ago. While not original, it would have been the answer for wary geese. But at 9.6 pounds, a bit substantial for crossing backwater swamps at 6:30 AM after an elusive but vocal boss turkey.