Parker Stock Comb Terminology -- Survey

[Garry L Gordon]

On another thread there was discussion of different comb options that one could order for a Parker. I'm wondering what they were called, and the dates of those orders for which we have records. I like to try to determine what Parker Bros. termed their stock options and if that terminology changed over time.

For example, I have a gun that the research letter states is a "medium full comb," while others note their letters state "trap comb," and still others, "full comb."

If you have a research letter that notes one of these combs, would you please reply back on this thread with the following information?

- Research Letter terminology for the comb (trap, medium full, etc.)
- Date of production for the gun
- A photo of the comb (if you have one).

Thanks in advance -- Garry

[Dean Romig]

My fully optioned CHE Double Trap No. 230760 has what I consider a "trap comb" but a letter was not possible on that serial number range. Suffice to say it was a trap comb but not quite as pronounced as others I have seen.


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[Garry L Gordon]

Thanks, Dean. That's a good looking clay buster.

[Dean Romig]

I didn'y own it for long...
It was the 2004 PGCA Raffle gun and I won it...
The first time I fired it was at trap at my club.
I broke 24/25 and missed the last bird so I bought another round...
I broke 24/25, missing the last bird for the second time...
It wasn't the "arrow" it was the "Indian" who missed... Trap is a mind game!!





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[Bob Brown]

I have a SSBP and trigger guard off a a BH trap gun made in 1898. Curiosity made me send in for a letter on it. It lettered as being ordered with a raised Monte Carlo stock.

[Randy G Roberts]

Garry I looked at 3 letters on guns with a trap comb and all 3 mention the grip and the "trap modified forend" but nothing on the actual comb. Dang the luck !

[Garry L Gordon]

Garry I looked at 3 letters on guns with a trap comb and all 3 mention the grip and the "trap modified forend" but nothing on the actual comb. Dang the luck !

Thanks for checking, Randy. Can I assume that each gun had a larger than typical comb? And can you share the dates of these guns?

[Randy G Roberts]

Thanks for checking, Randy. Can I assume that each gun had a larger than typical comb? And can you share the dates of these guns?

Yes, all had trap combs. Wider throughout the entire length of the comb and more rounded at the flute. The BHE has a much thicker than normal wrist as well. See the following for DOM info....

[Dean Romig]

Randy… not to be picky but none of those three letters address a trap comb, just a “trap modified fore-end”. Do you have any other info on those guns that talk about the combs?
I have seen letters that specifically reference a “trap comb”.




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[Garry L Gordon]

Thanks for the additional information! I also notice the term "ball grip" from one of those guns. After reading a thread with lots of comments on various grip terminology, I wonder if that terminology changed over time, and the same kind of evolution of terms happened with comb specifications.

I hope more folks with research letter information will contribute to this thread.

[Randy G Roberts]

Randy… not to be picky but none of those three letters address a trap comb, just a “trap modified fore-end”. Do you have any other info on those guns that talk about the combs?
I have seen letters that specifically reference a “trap comb”.
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Dean the following is my original post in which I stated:
Garry I looked at 3 letters on guns with a trap comb and all 3 mention the grip and the "trap modified forend" but nothing on the actual comb. Dang the luck !

[Dean Romig]

Oops... I missed that Randy - Sorry





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[Mike Koneski]

Thanks for the additional information! I also notice the term "ball grip" from one of those guns. After reading a thread with lots of comments on various grip terminology, I wonder if that terminology changed over time, and the same kind of evolution of terms happened with comb specifications.

I hope more folks with research letter information will contribute to this thread.

Garry, after some research this is what I found on "ball grips"...Couldn't just pass this up. Sent to me by a friend.

[Garry L Gordon]

Garry, after some research this is what I found on "ball grips"...Couldn't just pass this up. Sent to me by a friend.

But do you have a research letter??

[Mike Koneski]

No research letter as the dates don't coincide with known serializations. Only more images.

[Dean Romig]

I have two of what I consider true ‘ball grip’ guns, both Lifters, both D or equivalend ‘dollar quality’ guns, one a 10 gauge and one a 16.





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[Garry L Gordon]

Apparently the Parker nomenclature changed over time. It makes sense that it would.

[Randy G Roberts]

Garry as you do not seem to be getting a lot of hits on this topic have you considered perusing through some Parker catalogs to see if there might be some nomenclature within them specific to comb terminology. I know that some of them mention the Monte Carlo and Cheek Piece options so you never know.

[Garry L Gordon]

Garry as you do not seem to be getting a lot of hits on this topic have you considered perusing through some Parker catalogs to see if there might be some nomenclature within them specific to comb terminology. I know that some of them mention the Monte Carlo and Cheek Piece options so you never know.

Thanks, Randy, that’s a great idea. It will give me a good indoor quest on a cold day (like we’re having today).

I can’t believe that the honorable Bill M. doesn’t have a letter or three that would help out. (Bill, where are you?)

[Chuck Bishop]

I looked thru my copies of Parker catalogs and prior to the 1910 catalog, Parker only listed straight or pistol grip. The pistol grip would include capped pistol grips, round knob pistol grips, and ball grips. Ball grips were on the early hammer guns and looked like a bulb. Parker did use the term "ball" on their later .410 guns. Starting with the 1910 catalog, they used the terms straight, pistol grip (includes both CPG and round), 1/2 pistol grip, and Monte Carlo.

[Chuck Bishop]

From the 1910 catalog

[Dean Weber]

Pursuant to Dean R.'s comments about "ball grips" as opposed to Mike's comments about ball grips.......ahem.

My lifters with true ball grips are called pistol grips within the letters. If we recognize grip structures changed over time (ball, capped, round) and yet pistol grip is used in my letters for most of these from the 1800s to 1940s (exception is where capped pistol grip is called out). Yet the grip styles/structure are very different.

We also know that styles of comb structure did change over time even within the lifter period. Whether the names changed with them seems not as clear. Further, I have never received a letter calling out the comb structure even though I have a couple which would be called full or trap comb.

Obviously, I don't have access to Parker records, but I suspect comb was not documented in the same manner/frequency as grip structure. No matter the singer performing the act.......:);)

[Chuck Bishop]

I only put in the research letter what either the order book or stock book says. The order books only rarely will specify CPG, they only say p.g. or straight. The stock books do say either straight, pistol grip, or capped pistol grip so if there is no stock book for the gun, the letter will say pistol grip even though it's a capped pistol grip. I may have done a letter where a Monty Carlo stock was indicated but it would be extremely rare. You can assume a Monty Carlo stock by the 3 dimensions of drops if they are listed.

[Dean Weber]

Chuck,
After writing about 50 of my letters and likely 1000s by now, how often do you see the comb type called out? I suspect seldom, as the books are only non-standard combs and therefore no need to document regularly unless the comb is remarkable. I dunno. Just spitballin.

[Rino Grassa]

My 1903 16ga VH Letters the stock as " 1/2 Pistol Grip

[Dan Steingraber]

I looked thru my copies of Parker catalogs and prior to the 1910 catalog, Parker only listed straight or pistol grip. The pistol grip would include capped pistol grips, round knob pistol grips, and ball grips. Ball grips were on the early hammer guns and looked like a bulb. Parker did use the term "ball" on their later .410 guns. Starting with the 1910 catalog, they used the terms straight, pistol grip (includes both CPG and round), 1/2 pistol grip, and Monte Carlo.

VH 28 #234418

115769
115770

[Dean Romig]

Thanks Chuck -
I wish Parker Bros. And Remington had been more consistant in identifying the style of grip and comb.






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[Garry L Gordon]

Thanks to all who have contributed information here! The original question was concerning the Parker comb variations. Dean W.'s comments echo my own regarding the terminology used...on the apparently rare instances where it is used.

I think the only way to get any sense of what kinds of combs Parker would produce is linked to those few instances where it's mentioned in the records. I don't see references in the catalogs.

Dean shared with me a case where a gun had a larger comb, but it was not mentioned in the research letter (and so, the records). The comb on his mid-1920s gun is exactly like my 1924 gun (for which no records exist). Others have noted mention in their letters, and as I noted earlier, I have one that is specified as having a "medium full" comb.

So, if there are letters out there with mention of the comb, please consider responding to this thread. Short of going through all of the records, I can't see a better way of getting at this question.

Thanks!!

[Chuck Bishop]

Dan, your grip type in the stock book is listed as a 1/2 pistol grip. I was wrong about the ball grips on .410. In the last stock book I found ball grips listed for all the gauges. I'm guessing the word ball is the same as a 1/2 pistol grip or what we also call a "round grip". I know this is all confusing, but just know that I put in the research letter exactly what the records show.

[Dean Romig]

It seems, after all the examples shown here and the opinions expressed, that the description of the type of pistol grip a gun was made with really didn't have an official name as would have been dictated by the front office but rather were described by the stockmaker or the person actually recording the gun's manufacturing specs...

Would it were that were otherwise.





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[Dan Steingraber]

Dan, your grip type in the stock book is listed as a 1/2 pistol grip. I was wrong about the ball grips on .410. In the last stock book I found ball grips listed for all the gauges. I'm guessing the word ball is the same as a 1/2 pistol grip or what we also call a "round grip". I know this is all confusing, but just know that I put in the research letter exactly what the records show.

Chuck, I found it interesting that the work order tag being used at that time only had 3 pre printed options. CPG, Straight and Ball. The more I learn, the less I know. It seems, like others have suggested, nothing is truly certain re: these lovely guns.

[Dean Romig]

And here’s even more to add to the confusion…

Parker No. 36488 is in my posession but there are some discrepancies in the records we have.

It is a (30”) Bernard-barreled Grade-4, making it a B4, not a D3 and it has a C (capped pistol grip) not a P as shown on both the Serialization book and in the data from which the research letters are derived.


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[Garry L Gordon]

I do think, as I've already noted, that the comb style is dependent on the timeframe (and, obviously, the folks that worked during it).

It would still be nice for those that have letters to contribute to respond. We may be able to find consistencies/trends during certain time periods, just like we do with engraving.

[Reggie Bishop]

This morning I reviewed about 30 research letters that I have. Only one referenced a “medium full comb”.

[Garry L Gordon]

This morning I reviewed about 30 research letters that I have. Only one referenced a “medium full comb”.


Thanks, Reggie!
Would that be a 1918 20 gauge CHE?

[Reggie Bishop]

Thanks, Reggie!
Would that be a 1918 20 gauge CHE?

Oui

[Garry L Gordon]

Oui

Hey, I’m psychic!

[Randy G Roberts]

Garry I have a recently written letter that does address the comb. I was going to mention it to you at the HOF Banquet but with all of the activity and eye candy that Louis had there it totally escaped me. The attached letter is one of the more detailed I have.

[CraigThompson]

Without a doubt THE thickest comb I’ve ever seen was on the CH 8 gauge Josh had in his for sale rack this past weekend .

[Garry L Gordon]

Garry I have a recently written letter that does address the comb. I was going to mention it to you at the HOF Banquet but with all of the activity and eye candy that Louis had there it totally escaped me. The attached letter is one of the more detailed I have.

Thanks, Randy. What an extraordinary gun.

Your 1900 gun stock terminology states, "extra thick comb." My two 1918 guns (both 20s) are termed "medium full comb."

I've located two more guns, a VH and BH that have thick nosed combs, but neither has any reference in the records (and I'm as positive as I can be that they are both original). One is a 12, the other (mine) a 16. They both have the fluting typical of Parker stocks.

Does your gun have this fluting?

(Top photo is a 1918 DHE 20. "Medium Full Comb" and no fluting.
Bottom photo is a 1924 BHE 16. There are no records for this gun, but another member has a similar era gun with the same style comb, and it's not mentioned in the records.)

[Randy G Roberts]

Garry in its present state this gun does not possess the typical trap comb that it apparently began life with. It appears to me that the stock was altered at some point.

[Garry L Gordon]

Garry in its present state this gun does not possess the typical trap comb that it apparently began life with. It appears to me that the stock was altered at some point.

Too bad, but I hear that you trap shooters can be pretty persnickety about your stocks.:)

I wish we could have seen the original configuration. I think this special comb "thing" must have been somewhat idiosyncratic to specific eras and workers, just like engraving; but it would be nice to see more documented examples.

[Randy G Roberts]

Too bad, but I hear that you trap shooters can be pretty persnickety about your stocks.:)

I wish we could have seen the original configuration. I think this special comb "thing" must have been somewhat idiosyncratic to specific eras and workers, just like engraving; but it would be nice to see more documented examples.

Actually I am not a trap shooter :rotf:

[Garry L Gordon]

Actually I am not a trap shooter :rotf:

Are clays shooters persnickety about their stocks? Just trying to learn.:corn:

BTW, thanks for keeping this thread going. I still think there are more documented comb designations out there.

[Randy G Roberts]

Are clays shooters persnickety about their stocks? Just trying to learn.:corn:

BTW, thanks for keeping this thread going. I still think there are more documented comb designations out there.

Some are downright fussy in that everything has to be perfect right down to 1/64", some are constantly making adjustments which usually occur after a poor round. I would guess that the percentage who pay little attention to stock dimensions is small. Most likely the more serious a person is the more attention to detail, the weekend warrior probably not so much.