VHE Parker - 20 gauge Pigeon gun....?

[Wes Stueber]

Hi, all!

I was at a gun auction over the weekend and on preview day I saw a Parker VHE w/ 30" barrels - with NO safety on top of the tang..!

For those who would know - was this made as a pigeon gun, possibly? I have never seen one like it before. It sold today for $3,100. to an Indiana buyer. The gun was made in 1920 on a #1 frame. I can go back to get the serial number if it's needed? It did have a good Jostam pad installed - a brick color.

The tang was never cut for a safety lever it appeared to me.

Interesting Parker...just thought IF others have seen 20 gauges like it before?

Thank you!

Wes

[Bill Murphy]

Need a PGCA letter to confirm that it was actually made without a safety.

[CraigThompson]

We had a DHE 16 gauge 31” that lettered as such in the shop for sale a few years back that left the factory without a safety . Ida bought that gun but some Jack leg had it redone and not the best I ever saw .

[CraigThompson]

Hi, all!

I was at a gun auction over the weekend and on preview day I saw a Parker VHE w/ 30" barrels - with NO safety on top of the tang..!

For those who would know - was this made as a pigeon gun, possibly? I have never seen one like it before. It sold today for $3,100. to an Indiana buyer. The gun was made in 1920 on a #1 frame. I can go back to get the serial number if it's needed? It did have a good Jostam pad installed - a brick color.

The tang was never cut for a safety lever it appeared to me.

Interesting Parker...just thought IF others have seen 20 gauges like it before?

Thank you!

Wes

Indiana huh think I have a pretty good idea who bought that gun :whistle::rotf:

[Jeff Kuss]

Not Me! I already have a 20 with no safety.

[Randy G Roberts]

Not Me! I already have a 20 with no safety.

Not me either. Barrels to short :)

[Wes Stueber]

Gentlemen,

The serial # of the Parker VHE was #185852. IF the safety was there in the past, someone did a great job filling in the slot.

Thank you all for your replies. {Seeing it was a first for this old guy..!}

Wes

[Jeff Kuss]

I'll dig in the safe and take a picture.

[CraigThompson]

Not me either. Barrels to short :)

Well Ida lost money as Ida bet on you :rotf:

[Jeff Kuss]

Vhe 20 no safety and no dolls head

[Garry L Gordon]

Well Ida lost money as Ida bet on you :rotf:

You’d better have a talk with Ida. :)

[Jeff Kuss]

AAHE 16

[Jeff Kuss]

Che 12

[Dean Romig]

I know of a hammerless CH or CHE, a 20 gauge with 30” “Damascus” barrels and no safety. It was originally shipped to Canada.
Today it sports 28” Belgian fluid steel barrels. A beautiful gun I made a sincere and very fair offer on but my offer was refused…





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[Wes Stueber]

Jeff & Dean,

That's just the way the VHE 20 gauge tang appeared - just like yours. {Beautiful guns, by the way..!!}

Are there a number of Parkers out there w/o safeties on them, that you guys know of? I just cannot understand the thought of NOT having a safety on any gun..! Pigeon guns.?

I hope the new owner knows about the safety as the photos of it did not show that area very well. I assume they originally HAD to be ordered w/ no safety then?

Well, I learned something new today - thanks to you guys - thank you, all!

Happy, 1st Day of Spring, tomorrow.

[Dean Romig]

Safety or not, all Parkers are completely safe… until the breech is closed.






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[Brian Dudley]

Keep in mind that most safety delete guns that are factory made did in fact have a safety slot in the frame. They were filled and engraved over. So when closely inspecting guns without safeties, you may see the ghosted outline of the filled slot. That does not mean that it was done post-manufacture. That is how most of them are.

A safety delete gun is commonly called a “live bird gun” but that does bot mean that all were used for live bird or competition shooting. It is just for the ahooter who hates safeties on their guns.

[todd allen]

The best gun safety is the 6 inches between your ears.

[Bill Murphy]

Jeff who does your 20 with no extension rib letter to? I have a couple of those and assume they are competitive pigeon shooters.

[Jeff Kuss]

Brian is correct. The safety slot is filled in and engraved over on my guns.
The vhe 20 letters to O W Gaines. He was the son of long time parker employee Leroy Gaines. Oliver shot at the Meriden Parker Gun Club.
The AAHE was a California Duck Club gun. It was gifted to Hilt Parker for Christmas in 1926. He was the caretaker of the Cerritos Gun Club. The second owner was Will J Reid the third national president of Ducks Unlimited.
The Che is the most likely a live bird or clays gun with 32" barrels. It was sent to Gentry Hillman of Birmingham Al. Gentry was a trap shooter at the Birmingham Gun Club.

[Jerry VanHorn]

I have a 32" VHE 16 that had the slot filled in with just a fitted piece of plain metal..No engraving..

[Garry L Gordon]

I recall that Aldo Leopold ordered his Fox without a safety. His gun was just for hunting. Some people just don’t want the safety.

[Dean Romig]

True. When the breech is open the gun is safe.





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[Wes Stueber]

Very true, Dean! I'm sure you've seen pictures of hunters in the past w/ their external hammers cocked, chambers loaded and the gun broken open..?

I'm sure those guys were quick enough to close the breech while bringing the gun up to fire w/ NO hammers to worry about cocking!

This subject of 'no safety' would make a great article for our "Parker Pages" magazine.

Thanks for all the comments, esp. the one from Garry about Aldo Leopold & his Fox. I think it's a fascinating subject, but one I'm not comfortable with, YET..!

Wes

[Dave Noreen]

All of the long barrel small-bores that Edwin Hedderly, Editor of Western Field, got from Parker Bros. were ordered without safeties, and he was duck hunting with them. From the cover of a 1966 Guns & Ammo --

115138

The order --

115140

Likewise, Nash Buckingham's XHE Ansley H. Fox, nicknamed BoWhoop, is a no-safety duck gun --

115141

[Wes Stueber]

Thanks for the photos and info, Dave - much appreciated here!!

I just CANNOT understand the reasoning behind NOT having a safety lever on a shotgun, or any gun, for that matter?

Can you, or any of our other knowledgeable Parker members, enlighten me as to WHY or WHAT they thought back then..? To me, it is very dangerous.

Maybe I should have bid on the VHE 20 gauge w/ 30" bbls. - w/o the safety..? It sold for $3,100. and was made in 1920. Oh well, I'm learning.

Good shooting & thanks again!

Wes

[Mike Koneski]

Well Ida lost money as Ida bet on you :rotf:

+1 here !!

[Mike Koneski]

Thanks for the photos and info, Dave - much appreciated here!!

I just CANNOT understand the reasoning behind NOT having a safety lever on a shotgun, or any gun, for that matter?

Can you, or any of our other knowledgeable Parker members, enlighten me as to WHY or WHAT they thought back then..? To me, it is very dangerous.

Maybe I should have bid on the VHE 20 gauge w/ 30" bbls. - w/o the safety..? It sold for $3,100. and was made in 1920. Oh well, I'm learning.

Good shooting & thanks again!

Wes

If you are shooting live birds or a clay target game, the gun isn't loaded until ready to shoot. Top shooters preferred that feature. I prefer it too. On my clays guns I'll dismantle the auto-safety. Remove the rod on a Parker, lock the safety off on a Lefever.

Hunting guns are a different animal, there I don't lock the safety off. I never trust that an auto-safety actually engages the safety, I'll always check to make sure the safety is actually engaged. That said, I do use some of my clays guns for hunting, unless they are a live bird configuration.

BTW, I've never seen a SBT with a safety.

[Garry L Gordon]

Remember the guns with safeties but not intercepting sears could discharge if dropped. A safety can give a false sense of security and is no substitute for what our fathers told us: treat all guns as if they were loaded, and never point a gun at anything you don’t want to shoot. I want automatic safeties on all my guns, but I cannot ever recall, in over 60 years of using a firearm, where a safety prevented an accident.

[Dave Noreen]

Short barrel open bored guns without safeties are often considered "plantation quail guns" where the shooters road horseback. Gun carried unloaded in your scabbard and only loaded when you dismount and walk in for the flush.

[Dean Romig]

Very true, Dean! I'm sure you've seen pictures of hunters in the past w/ their external hammers cocked, chambers loaded and the gun broken open..?

I'm sure those guys were quick enough to close the breech while bringing the gun up to fire w/ NO hammers to worry about cocking!

This subject of 'no safety' would make a great article for our "Parker Pages" magazine.

Thanks for all the comments, esp. the one from Garry about Aldo Leopold & his Fox. I think it's a fascinating subject, but one I'm not comfortable with, YET..!

Wes


Exactly Wes, and that’s how I carry my hammer guns while hunting. I close the action when I step in to make the flush or when I know I’m in very close proximity to the bird - and always very in tune to my companion’s position at all tines.





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[John Dallas]

Have spent a Lot of days as a Dog Boy at tower shoots in my area. Unfortunately, there have been a few very animated discussions which I have initiated, when I would say to a shooter coming into my area, with the gun dangling from his hand pointing at me, "Please open the action" and he would say, it's OK, The safety is on", and then my decibel level would rise as I said "I didn't ask you if the safety was on, I TOLD you to open the action". Usually worked, but occasionally I would have him removed from the shoot

[Bill Murphy]

I have seen long threads discussing the operation of a hammer gun in the field. I would like to read those threads again. As for Aldo's Fox, I think that he hunted quail behind steady pointing dogs and had no interest in shooting wild flushing birds. In my opinion, he loaded his gun after his dogs went on point. Nash claimed that he loaded his gun only when he was ready to shoot. I don't really believe that statement. I just think he was muzzle conscious and didn't rest his finger on the trigger.