Unusual barrels

[Robbie Payne]

Please educate me on what’s going on with these found on a GHE in a local gun store recently.

[John Davis]

Here’s a guess. Second set of barrels added by Remington at some point as indicated by the date codes?

[Robbie Payne]

Is it typical to have no rib markings on Remington barrels?

[Brian Dudley]

Late remington replacement barrels. Forend as well.

[John Davis]

Is it typical to have no rib markings on Remington barrels?

Yes

[Brian Dudley]

What you have here is something that I see as a plus. A gun that was factory refitted with new fluid steel barrels. The gun was likely damascus original. You now have a fluid steel set that are newer by a couple decades. The guns overall value was likely improved with the addition of those barrels. And anyone who knows what they are looking at knows that they were a factory job.

[Dave Noreen]

WL3 is a repair done in W = August L = 1942, probably when these late Remington barrels were added to this 1904 vintage Quality GHE.

The DW3 repair code doesn't make sense to me. D = September but W for a year code is 1928 too early, or 1972 too late for Remington doing Parker repairs.

[Steve Huffman]

Did Remington put the weep hole in?

[Brian Dudley]

Did Remington put the weep hole in?

That is what they did.

[Dean Romig]

It looks, by the stamped circle with what looks like a V in it but not centered, to me like the barrels were originally manufactured in Meriden well after the gun was made, but were simply pit in stock with no serial number and with a blank rib and went to Ilion with all other spare parts, and the rest of the barrel flats and the rib were stamped by Remington at a later date.

…but this doesn’t explain the weep hole unless the ribs hadn’t yet been added.






.

[Brian Dudley]

It is just has an empty circle. No V. The circle was standard fare for most unfinished meriden built barrel sets. The steel type stamp was added in when the gun was being put together. That being the main support for the idea that Parker did not actually use different steel types for their fluid steel barrels. I think the only exception to this would be Parker Special Steel which just had the PS stamp with no circle.

Weep holes would be put in at the time of bluing.

[Dean Romig]

And the OV barrels on the Trojans and the Whitworth barrels as well that were serial numbered at the Whitworth plant.





.

[Dave Noreen]

I think the only exception to this would be Parker Special Steel which just had the PS stamp with no circle.

From my observations I find the early Parked Spec. Steel barrels being marked P.S. on the barrel flat.

113916

Beginning in the 204xxx range the handful of GH/GHEs I've recorded have the PS in a circle --

113917

113918

113919

113920

[Gary Bodrato]

To add to the confussion of "Made in the USA", there are Belgian Export unfinished barrel proof marks on the left barrel flat shoulder !! The open end gauge oval with arrow ends and the remnents of the dancing lion are visiable

[Gary Bodrato]

Photographed and enlargement of proof marks

[Brian Dudley]

It is nothing. Just some scratches.

[Gary Bodrato]

Deadwrong Brian, hit the photo to enlarge. 3/4 oval gauge stamp with arrow ends clearly visable, also dancing lion stamp

[John Davis]

I’m with Brian on this one.

[Brian Dudley]

If you see that, then good for you. You have a wilder imagination than most.

Do you read palms and tea leaves too?

[Stan Hillis]

I'm not taking sides here, but I definitely see the oval with at least one clearly defined "arrowhead" on one end of it. It's an odd "scratch" that forms a tiny perfect arrowhead on the end of an oval line. Just sayin'.

[edgarspencer]

You have a wilder imagination than most.

I see a puppy chasing cotton balls

[Gary Bodrato]

Brian, What are you a two year old? the only thing imaginative with that reply is an over blown ego. If you dont see it just say you dont

[edgarspencer]

Neither Parker, Remington, or anyone "re-proofing" barrels would put any stamping on Bearing Surfaces. Stamping is applied only in the relieved area between the lugs and the Bearing Surface.

[Brian Dudley]

I will also add that yes, tubes were imported for a lot of guns. Nearly all damascus tubes were imported as well as early high quality fluid steel. The TUBES were imported. Not assembled barrels. If they were marked, it would have been the TUBES. Ie: whitworth tubes had the whitworth markings on them. And after assembled, sometimes they remained and sometimes they didnt, depending on the amount of striking and polishing done to the barrel set. Parker assembled the barrel set in house meaning that the breech end, lugs and everything were put together and machined in the factory. There would be no markings left from importation left in that area. And as Edgar stated, that area of the barrels would never be stamped with anything to begin with.
And, in the time period that these barrels were made, the tubes were being completely made in house with the starting steel blanks coming from domestic sources in the NE USA.

No, I am not 2 years old. And ego has nothing to do with it. When I see something ridiculous stated, I call them like I see them. It reminds me of a recent example of someone claiming to see an engravers signature in some edge scratching of some scroll. It was also a ridiculous claim. I called him on it. He requested to whole thread be removed. An over-reaction, yes. I only assume it is because he knows his claims were incorrect.

I am done with this bickering over nothing.

[Gary Bodrato]

Neither Parker, Remington, or anyone "re-proofing" barrels would put any stamping on Bearing Surfaces. Stamping is applied only in the relieved area between the lugs and the Bearing Surface.

Wrong on this one Edgar. put your good glasses on. Belgian barrels to fit Parkers have been imported by many people over many years, The Marks on the "Bearing surface" are Export unproofed barrel stamp and a Chamber and Guage stamp, so the end user knew what it was.

[Gary Bodrato]

Brian, The only ridiculus claim is your know it all attitude. You really Dont know as much as you imply you do. You may be done, but you really are a piece of work, about as dull as your stock finish. If your not Man enough to carry on a conversation with out being a snarky little Know it all theres plenty of kids blogs.

[Gary Bodrato]

HOw many more exaples of proof marks on bearing surfaces will it take?

[John Davis]

I do not believe Remington ever imported Belgian proofed or non proofed barrels for use on Parker guns. I do believe these barrels were added to this gun by Remington. I could certainly be wrong, I often am.

[Gary Bodrato]

And for the near sighted and narrow minded and those that do not read French
It says --Calibre and chamber legnth
Armes made for Foriegn Export

[Dave Noreen]

To my eye that oval you think you see is just the residue of a dried drop of lubricant that was squeezed between the barrel bearing surface and the watertable and dried up. I'd bet a bit of Hoppis and a quick scrub and it will disappear.

[Steve Huffman]

Maybe a Letter on this gun If there are records would help, I really hate to see what's going on here.

[Gary Bodrato]

To my eye that oval you think you see is just the residue of a dried drop of lubricant that was squeezed between the barrel bearing surface and the watertable and dried up. I'd bet a bit of Hoppis and a quick scrub and it will disappear.

Look real close to the red lines, at both ends are arrows and that funny little thing on the left is an export lion stamp (1924-1968) also if you look inside the oval there is the number 1 and a non decipherable number next to it which would be the start of gauge and chamber stamps Hit the photo to enlarge

[edgarspencer]

The barrels shown, which this thread started out discussing, are Parker made barrels, and the assumption is they were subsequently fitted by Remington, so why would that silly "dancing lion" be stamped on them. Your noted table indicates that mark is applied to export barrels for proofing.
I misspoke when I said Parker, Remington, and some other proof house, but I meant some other proof house proofing Parker barrels. The barrel flat photos you show are plainly not those of higher quality manufacture.

I'm sure you'll search out something to prove me wrong, complete with more acerbic responses, but I pay little notice to people who act like boorish prigs, who come on here and insult us as "nearsighted', and well respected members.

[Gary Bodrato]

The barrels shown, which this thread started out discussing, are Parker made barrels, and the assumption is they were subsequently fitted by Remington, so why would that silly "dancing lion" be stamped on them. Your noted table indicates that mark is applied to export barrels for proofing.
I misspoke when I said Parker, Remington, and some other proof house, but I meant some other proof house proofing Parker barrels. The barrel flat photos you show are plainly not those of higher quality manufacture.

I'm sure you'll search out something to prove me wrong, complete with more acerbic responses, but I pay little notice to people who act like boorish prigs, who come on here and insult us as "nearsighted', and well respected members.

Nice respone Edgar, well respected is funny, tolerated is more acurate. The insults started with the kid that lives in his mothers basement and you jumped right in. Gentlemen admitt when they are wrong, others either try to change the subject or slink away. So far its 1 and 1. Have any other comments?
"The Borish Prig"

[Jay Oliver]

Wow...this went off the rails fast. I learned long ago to accept/value the wisdom from this fine group even when I was dissapointed with the answer. No need to instigate...there is another sxs forum for that...and most of us are not on it...

[Gary Bodrato]

Wow...this went off the rails fast. I learned long ago to accept/value the wisdom from this fine group even when I was dissapointed with the answer. No need to instigate...there is another sxs forum for that...and most of us are not on it...

If you see that, then good for you. You have a wilder imagination than most.

Do you read palms and tea leaves too?
__________________
B. Dudley

And now you jump in?

[edgarspencer]

Gary, I had to read between the lines and unrelated comments, but I'm now guessing your supposition is that the barrels, assembled, minus ribs, were made in Belgium, stamped as un-proofed, and sold to Remington. Is that right?
You didn't actually say that, and I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, just what I think you're saying.
What I originally said, I still stand with, that Parker and Remington would never stamp that location, is because, as seen in the first pictures, it's finished ground. IF (BIG IF) you're saying they were made by 'others' and sold to Remington, then it is entirely possible they were stamped there, as that surface had, as yet, to be ground.

Having said all that,(1) The WL3 code would almost certainly be when the barrels were fitted, But it's highly unlikely they were exported anywhere around that time, because of the WW2. (2) This was only 7 years after Remington acquired Parker, and we know there were plenty of already made barrels, made in Meriden, that went to Ilion, Remington had been making barrels at that time, and Remington sold Delgrego all remaining parts, which included Lots of barrels (1 1/2 frame being about the most commonly produced). Would Remington have stamped all the other information (in the relieved area) Such as unstruck weight, Parker material grade, HT over A, when they would have been heat treated and annealed in Belgium, and The Remington Version of the overload proof ?

Art Wheaton is probably the only person, because he worked for, and at Remington, who might know if any barrels were imported for relatively 'vanilla' guns because they still made their own (Though I don't think he worked there in the time frame these were added).

Soooo, I stick with what I originally said about them not stamping on bearing surfaces, meaning FINISHED GROUND surfaces.
Also, You are not right OR wrong, because it was your theory, not a known fact.
Lastly, the 'silly dancing Lion' doesn't match the image from your tables very well.
Last Lastly, Brian, in fact, does know his stuff, doesn't live in anyone's basement, and turns out one of the best stock finishes currently available to us.

[allen newell]

This is a terrific forum and a great platform for the exchange of ideas and discussion. We all have our own opinions let's just respect each other and keep the exchanges on a professional level. We have one of the best forums in my view, let's all strive to keep it that way.

[Gary Bodrato]

Mr Spencer
I* applaud*you for returning this post back to civility. Also i commend you on your command of the english language, funny, I'm getting hammered by a guy and his written eloquence*i find impressive.Now on to whats at hand. My original*post only expressed what I saw. I posted an enlarged photo and a copy from a Liege*proof book that i saw as being a close reference to the marks, nothing more or less. Some respondents expressed they did not see it, some did. End of story. Had not Brian Dudley taken this to a higher level two outcomes might have been forthcoming, My post ended with yeas*or nays or as your first sentence implies I may have inquired further if single barrel or rough assembled barrels were ever imported from Liege by Parker Bros or Remington. Truly the only authorities*on this matter may have been Babe and Larry DeGrego* At this point I see no interest in furthering this post as we have surely entertained*the troops sufficiently.
Sincerely
Gary Bodrato.
Addendum
But I am at total disagrement in your defence of Brian Dudley.

[Scott Chapman]

Not sure what your grudge is, Gary...but you seem to be insufferable. I lurk here regularly and appreciate the time, effort, and knowledge a lot of these fine gentlemen share with the public.

Please take your bullying elsewhere...

[David Holes]

I had a friend who decided to haunt this forum, was glad to see JD remove him. I have hopes for this one.

[Gary Bodrato]

Not sure what your grudge is, Gary...but you seem to be insufferable. I lurk here regularly and appreciate the time, effort, and knowledge a lot of these fine gentlemen share with the public.

Please take your bullying elsewhere...

I assume you read things in order of appearence? where sir did the "Bullying" start? please interject which post it was.

[Gary Bodrato]

I had a friend who decided to haunt this forum, was glad to see JD remove him. I have hopes for this one.

Please expand on who, much can be read into an open ended sentence If your are pointing the finger at me POINT IT, dont be shy

[CraigThompson]

But I am at total disagrement in your defence of Brian Dudley, Hes a lonely person hidding behind a computor putting people down thats allowed to florish on this web site. I would like him to post photos of the work area of BDM gun stocks as i doubt one exists

I can only comment on my own dealings with Brian and they’ve been quite good . What differences you may or may not have with him is between you both and should be discussed between you both , but not on open forum .

[Russell E. Cleary]

Gary:

The Forum rules that we all have agreed to adhere to render out of bounds who started the dispute, or whose posts were more personally provocative, etc.

The Forum rules, found in the WEBSITE & FORUM – HELP & ASSISTANCE section, as the “Forum Decorum” sticky thread at the top, is quite clear about what debates are allowed and not allowed.

Here are a few relevant bullet points (of a total of about 14):

• Be polite and respectful to others. There are no stupid questions, there are however rude answers which might get the responder a “time out”.
• Try to be helpful to others. If you are in a bad mood then please do not participate as your negative mood will undoubtedly show in your posts.
• Common respectful and professional debates are encouraged BUT, that does NOT include a personal attack of the person you are debating. Frankly, if you do not like someone - do not fight or attack them in your posts. Please contact them outside this forum and our servers/systems – and then feel free to trade insults.

[edgarspencer]

The problem with internet comments, versus the same made in person, say for example, sitting around a table having a few beers, is they lack tone. Everyone gets their panties in a bunch at things that we'd probably laugh off, in person.
Brian is known for economical use of words, which is often a regional thing, I think. That came over, years ago, to me as brusque, but, I have the advantage over Gary, of having known Brian for many years. We've had drinks together at meetings, lots of chats in the tents, many phone chats an emails regarding projects, and most importantly, he's done many jobs for me. I follow his work on social media (where he freely shows his work, and workspace.) He's done several jobs for me, and none of them were as simple as a 'freshening up'.
Bending tangs to go from PG stocks to straight, making the trigger guard, then shortening a 15" stock, from another gun, to 14.25" with peaked butt plate, was no simple job. He completed the job sooner than the promise, and well below the original quote. My DHE 16 stock was long, and the original Skeleton butt plate was removed and replaced with a pad. He shortened the stock, perfectly inletted a skeleton butt plate, and refinished the dirty finish such that I still maintain, it's the nicest piece of figured wood on any Parker I've seen, but I never knew that until he finished the job. This work spans many years, and I have proof of what he does. Gary doesn't.
I'd bet money anyone would form a sound opinion based on experience, over what someone 'sounds' like on the internet.

[Hal Sheets]

Deadwrong Brian, hit the photo to enlarge. 3/4 oval gauge stamp with arrow ends clearly visable, also dancing lion stamp

Well I see a cut glass lamp shade!

[Hal Sheets]

Not sure what your grudge is, Gary...but you seem to be insufferable. I lurk here regularly and appreciate the time, effort, and knowledge a lot of these fine gentlemen share with the public.

Please take your bullying elsewhere...

Well said Scott!

[Kevin McCormack]

Hyper microphotographic techniques combined with reverse Hubble and Webb space telescopes have revealed the image below in the area with the marks in question. Maybe they can give us an insight into what the symbols mean...

[Hal Sheets]

Brian, The only ridiculus claim is your know it all attitude. You really Dont know as much as you imply you do. You may be done, but you really are a piece of work, about as dull as your stock finish. If your not Man enough to carry on a conversation with out being a snarky little Know it all theres plenty of kids blogs.

"Stifle yourself Edith!"

[Hal Sheets]

I’m with Brian on this one.

As am I !

[David C Porter]

Put it to rest & move on. This constant back & forth is getting to be rediculously childish.