Lefever C at LGS

[Brett Trimble]

Gentlemen,

I saw a Lefer C grade 16ga at a local gun shop today. Barrels are fluid steal, 28in, 2 9/16 chambers, choked full and fuller.

It seems to be in good original condition, tight on the face, barrels ring nicely, some screws buggered, most not. I’ve attached some pics.

The shop owner showed me the blue book value as a place to start on price. Assuming 80% condition it’s $7,500 plus 75% for 16ga. That comes to $13k.

What would you offer and why??

Best,
Brett

[Reggie Bishop]

That’s a very rare and nice LeFever. I would offer $7500, but I would pay more.:)

[Brett Trimble]

Reggie,

Thanks so much for your reply. I was very tempted to offer $10k but took a deep breath because I realized I was in love.. :)

What would you pay for it, ultimately?

I don’t know a thing about Lefevers!!

[Brian Dudley]

It is a beautiful gun. A desirable one that does not come along too often.

[Reggie Bishop]

Brett I only own one, a lower grade 20. C grades are seldom seen in smaller bores, especially nice ones.

[Mike Poindexter]

Depends on how badly you want it. I’m no Lefever expert, but by Parker standards that is not a 75% gun. I don’t see any case color on the frame that is gone to gray with some minor freckling. The engraving is sharp and very nice and the stock and checkering appears very nice, almost too nice for the rest of the gun. As to Blue book values, I view them with skepticism. Sometimes they are way too high and sometimes way too low. Are you buying it as a nice shooter or as a collector investment? In either case I am put off by the up charge for 16 ga. Now 28 ga would be a different thing….

[Brett Trimble]

You alway call them as you see them Brian. In your opinion, is $13k over market?

[Frank Srebro]

Beautiful! I assume you know that's an ejector gun? That later ejector system usually works just fine but you'll want to test for timing and kick.

[Steve Huffman]

I think I had that gun in my hands years ago you anywhere close to Ohio. The man that owned it sold it shortly after he offered it to me Maybe a different gun just saying Did you notice any cracks around the locks, I think it was on the left side nothing major, but I saw it and he never knew it was there I just blew up the picture with the tang and is that a crack on the right side I just cant remember what side but I knew it was somewhere

[Brett Trimble]

Winplumber,

The gun is in San Diego. Hard to say about an Ohio connection. I see what you’re pointing out on the stock. Good catch!

[Steve Huffman]

The gun was sold to a car dealer in or around Bowling Green Ohio the person who offered it to me has since passed away, was the gun marked anywhere as to Bowling Green Ohio

[Brett Trimble]

I didn’t see any markings to that effect. The gun shop owner in SD (who is a good guy) told me that an older gentlemen brought it to the shop ten or so years ago and that the shop owner bought it to use. He promptly put it in a safe and forgot about it. We were talking about vintage guns and he brought it out to show me..

[Brett Trimble]

Mike, I would think of it as a nice shooter. It’s in good enough shape that I wouldn’t alter it other than to clean it up. So you think $7.5K but not higher?

[Arthur Shaffer]

I may be totally wrong, but it looks to me that pictures 6 and 7 show a small crack that starts at the right side of the wrist and runs diagonally back across the top of the wrist to a point halfway across the left side of the wrist. You can't see the whole thing in either picture due to the top lever, but it appears to line up through the small screw head in front of the safety slide.


Edit:

I just re-read winplumbers post and I believe that is the same crack I am talking about. In looking at the other pictures, it appears that there may be a couple of smaller cracks toward the rear of the right lock plate.

[Brett Trimble]

Art,

I think I’m seeing cracks on both sides. I’m going to take another look at the gun in person. If it is cracked, he’ll be able to make it right. Would change the value some, however..

[Mike Poindexter]

Brett, its just me and the gun doesnt really sing to me, so don't rely on my thoughts as a valid measure of the gun's value. I just passed on a pre-1913 Grade 2 LCS 16 ga FW in 98% condition because the guy wanted $6200 for it. To a collector, it might have been worth that. Not for me. As for shooters, nice A grade Foxes and G grade Parkers are what I search for, just enough engraving to make it nice to look at, but not so much that I stare at the gun instead of the bird. Again, that's just me, so take it with a grain of salt. Good luck.

[Brett Trimble]

Mike,

I completely understand your logic. In fact I’ve been looking for a Parker G grade in 16ga with shootable stock dimensions in good condition for quite a while. So far I’ve come up empty!

[Craig Larter]

Just my two cents. A 12ga CE in the condition shown would be a $5500. gun in my opinion, add in the small bore premium of 75% and I get to $9625. Very hard to come across a 16ga CE Lefever, good luck. Craig

[Larry Stauch]

I don't think I would quibble over some of the most minor issues this gun has. A good wood guy, like a few on this forum, can fix those minor cracks. You may never see another one of those for SEVERAL years, if ever. If I were standing there, it would be my gun. And ultimately if you don't want it please PM me. :)

[Dan Steingraber]

I think that car dealer may be a friend of mine.

[Arthur Shaffer]

I totally agree that the gun would be desireable and wood issues can certainly be made right. My comment was re: something that would maybe command a 5 figure price. That is the relavent issue. It would still be desireable with no stock. Just at what value, which was the point of this post.

[Brian Dudley]

The gun does have visible case color on the exterior of the frame. See behind the bolsters and onto the plates. Obviously when it comes to case color alone, it is less than 75%. But when looking at the whole package, I would not say that is too far off to call it a 75% gun. The blue book is subjective obviously. The values in there are usually going to be high.
The “crack” that is the topic of discussion looks more like a scratch to me. But of course careful in-person inspection of it would be important.


As for price. I am not one to usually comment on that for various reasons. And a gun like this is not seldomly seen. So there is not a ton of comparables to go off. I would not be surprised if the gun would sell for $13k to some particular people. Or if it were being sold by some particular dealers, a price like that would Not be surprising either. Or maybe even higher. You should try to purchase it for the best price possible. That is always the point, isnt it?

[Brett Trimble]

Thanks to all for the great advice. Perhaps Brian summed it up best.. “buy it for the best price possible”!

[Dave Noreen]

I was a bit surprised to see the stock style with drop-points. I have seen those on C-/CE-Grades in the 3xxxx range like my 12-gauge --

113188

It seems from my rather limited Lefever study that the higher serial number upper grade Lefever guns had the little in inlay in that area?!?

[Victor Wasylyna]

All the pretty Lefevers being shown on this site are making me think I should expand my collection beyond Parkers.

-Victor

[Larry Stauch]

I think I had that gun in my hands years ago you anywhere close to Ohio. The man that owned it sold it shortly after he offered it to me Maybe a different gun just saying Did you notice any cracks around the locks, I think it was on the left side nothing major, but I saw it and he never knew it was there I just blew up the picture with the tang and is that a crack on the right side I just cant remember what side but I knew it was somewhere

So, just for reference, what was the price then and when was that?

And the last two sentences of Brian's last comment is very relevant.

[Steve Huffman]

About 8 years ago asking me I think was $7500 and I think the car dealer paid more IF this is the same gun which I have no way of proving

[Larry Stauch]

Thanks for that information Steve. I think adding some context to the conversation is important and relevant for making decisions.
And lastly, these are in the Elliott book, Uncle Dan Lefever.
X
X
X

[Brett Trimble]

Larry,

Thanks so much for that information. A C grade in 16 ga with ejectors is rare indeed! According to this reference about 120 (3000 X 8%) X 50%.

[Chris Robenalt]

Brett, maybe my eyes are seeing things, but this looks to have cast-off. If so, do you shoot left handed? Just curious. It is a gun worth paying big money for! Old Lefevers of this caliber only come along once in a lifetime!

[Brett Trimble]

Chris, I’m a righty. When I shouldered the gun it seemed to have neutral cast. Maybe some sort of distortion in the pics, I guess. I’m going to try to work something out with the gun when I get back in town this weekend. :)

Best,
Brett

[John Dallas]

The gun I shot as well as any I own (Remington 3200) has 1/4" cast on. Never realized that for 30 years. Now I struggle with it. Mind Job

[Mike Koneski]

All the pretty Lefevers being shown on this site are making me think I should expand my collection beyond Parkers.

-Victor

Victor, that's what I did. I really enjoy shooting those Lefever guns. My personal opinion is they have the nicest engraving of all the guns made in that time period. I also enjoy all the variations that Uncle Dan designed over the years. The guy was always looking to build a better gun and was never satisfied. I especially like the fully compensating action. Pure genius!!

[Craig Larter]

I agree with Dave Noreen that it is surprising that the early style of the drop points are on a gun with a later serial number.
Lefever made lovely guns and many were made out of sequence. They are also a bargain in price grade for grade compared to Parkers.

[Richard Flanders]

The crack(s) in that part of the stock are interesting. I was in a friends gunshop in Bozeman and he had a nice Woodward sidelock 12ga. I picked it up and opened it and that same part of the wood broke off near the back of the sideplate and raised up considerably. We were able to look inside and see what had happened. Whatever the top section of the V-shaped main spring in the workings connected to had broken off and the spring had come up and broke that relatively thin section of wood nearly clean off. Who woulda thunk it!? Needless to say he wasn't able to sell me that one after that. Very nice gun too.

[Steve Huffman]

Just wondering how this ended

[Brett Trimble]

Thanks for asking! It turns out there were cracks in the stock. He pulled off the stock and repaired them properly with drill rods and epoxy. The repair is invisible. I made an offer but he wanted to look at the stock before accepting it. I’m going to see the gun and close the deal on Tuesday.

[Brett Trimble]

To any that might be interested I was able to work out a deal for the gun today. I’ll post better pictures after I pick it up next Friday.

Just wanted to say a heartfelt thanks to you all for taking the time to put me on the right path.

Best,
Brett

[Mike Franzen]

Great thread. Looking forward to more. Congratulations on a beautiful gun.

[Garry L Gordon]

To any that might be interested I was able to work out a deal for the gun today. I’ll post better pictures after I pick it up next Friday.

Just wanted to say a heartfelt thanks to you all for taking the time to put me on the right path.

Best,
Brett

Brett, I’m looking forward to seeing more of that wonderful little gun.

[Craig Larter]

I'm so happy you were able to do the deal, neat gun!