Ithaca NID extractor issue.

[Joseph Sheerin]

I have a 1938 16ga Ithaca NID G2 shotgun, and occasionally the extracter slips under the rim of the shell, and does not extract it. I have to then break down gun, remove the extractor, and push the shell out.

I noticed as compared to my Parkers, the extractors of the NID are quite a bit smaller, covering a lot less circumference of the shell. Maybe 25% of the shell rim, compare to about 40% on my VH.

Anyone else ever run into this with a NID? If so, what'd you do about it?

[Matt Buckley]

I had this issue with a early year 16 gauge NID with the cocking indicators. I had to pull a shell out once in the duck slough with my leather man. Only happened once to me but I have since sold the gun off.

[Joseph Sheerin]

I had this issue with a early year 16 gauge NID with the cocking indicators. I had to pull a shell out once in the duck slough with my leather man. Only happened once to me but I have since sold the gun off.

The extractor design is not nearly as stout as the Parkers.....

it's happened twice now, also noted that there is a bit more play in the extractor on the NID. Not really sure there is much I can do about it, as buying a new one isn't really an option. :D

[Stan Hoover]

Joe,

I've shot my NID's more than any other gun, but I've never had that happen.

I've had it happen with my Parker 16 gauge underlifter, but it had good reason, some paper shells that had took on a small amount of moisture, it was not the guns fault.
Like you I had to remove the extractor before being able to remove the stuck shell, luckily I was hunting pheasant within walking distance of my house.

Your NID must have had a ton of shells put through it or someone was fooling with it that shouldn't have been, snap a picture of the extractor if you don't mind, wouldn't mind seeing it.

Stan

[Joseph Sheerin]

Joe,

I've shot my NID's more than any other gun, but I've never had that happen.

I've had it happen with my Parker 16 gauge underlifter, but it had good reason, some paper shells that had took on a small amount of moisture, it was not the guns fault.
Like you I had to remove the extractor before being able to remove the stuck shell, luckily I was hunting pheasant within walking distance of my house.

Your NID must have had a ton of shells put through it or someone was fooling with it that shouldn't have been, snap a picture of the extractor if you don't mind, wouldn't mind seeing it.

Stan

Will do when I get a chance. thanks.

[Brian Dudley]

It sounds to me like your ithacas extractor it likely messed with.

[Arthur Shaffer]

I have quite a few and never any trouble. I have a 16 that I have shot a lot since I got it in 1973; no problems. One problem may be paper shells as mentioned. Another may be that for most of the last 50 years, the 16 loads available have been 2-3/4" loads trying to keep up with a 12 gauge.

You might check the chambers and forcing cones. If someone opened it up, they may have not controlled the reamer very will and cut the extractor/chamber oversize.

Just wanted to add (this may ruffle feelings here), but i don't think shooting modern loads in an NID is really a safety issue. They are considered by a llot of people to be the strongest of all the classic shotguns. It's just that the combination of stiff 1-1/8 oz loads and a gun with a shorter chamber may be enough to make the hull sticky. My 16 I mentioned was made in 1948, has 2-1/2" chambers (who knows when the barrels of a 1948 gun were made) and I shot it till it burnt your fingers every time I went dove hunting. Before I knew better, I shot the heaviest field loads I could find. When I finally grew up and got some tools, I measured the barrels. I found out they were 2-1/2" and had 0.028 thick barrels in the front half. The gun is as tight as the ay it was made.

[Joseph Sheerin]

For the record, this gun is a 1938 gun, with 2 3/4" chambers stamped on barrel flats.

I was shooting winchester 1165 fps 1 oz loads.

[Joseph Sheerin]

Here's some pics.

I may shoot some lighter RST's next time, see if that makes a difference.

[Stan Hoover]

Joe,

nothing really jumps out to me from your pictures, on the third picture where the extractor seems to be fully retracted, it does appear that it could be tweaked upward, it look like there might be some room at the top.
Also, if you remove the barrels and then manually pull the extractor out, does it have any downward movement like your guide pin may be bent?
Meaning that the further the ectractor extends, it keeps dropping lower away from the shell?
There is a set screw that retains the extractor guide rod/pin from fully coming out, this screw can be backed off to allow the extractor to be removed, and then you could check for straigtness of the rod/pin.

Stan

[Joseph Sheerin]

Joe,

nothing really jumps out to me from your pictures, on the third picture where the extractor seems to be fully retracted, it does appear that it could be tweaked upward, it look like there might be some room at the top.
Also, if you remove the barrels and then manually pull the extractor out, does it have any downward movement like your guide pin may be bent?
Meaning that the further the ectractor extends, it keeps dropping lower away from the shell?
There is a set screw that retains the extractor guide rod/pin from fully coming out, this screw can be backed off to allow the extractor to be removed, and then you could check for straigtness of the rod/pin.

Stan

yeah, I pulled it out it looks very straight. It moved freely with finger, etc.

If any thing, there is a bit of side-to-side movement once it's out. It's like the shell sticks or something, but once the extractor was out, very little pressure to remove it, and it fit in other tube just fine too. I am gonna try the lighter RSt's in it. Although, this gun should be fine with 1165 1oz loads imho.

[Stan Hoover]

Not sure what else it may be Joe,

Maybe Brian will see something I'm missing? I personally have never had any issues with NID extractors, but never say never.

Stan

[Arthur Shaffer]

In looking at the picture, I guess it's half empty or half full, but my impression that there is something wookie with the left extractor. Hard to tell with the camera angles, but it looks to me like it may not be fitting the cutout hardly as well as the right. You never mentioned I don't think, but does it happen in one barrel more than the other?

You mentioned being free once lifted by the extractor. I have seen this both in shotguns and rifles. A small imperfection in the chambe can cause this. When shooting a load of even moderate pressure, the shell can expand just enough to hank in the imperfection. Once pulled loose, it comes on out. When I mentioned lengthening forcing cones or chambers, it is possible for a hand held reamer to do this at the back of the cutter if the alignment is not good enough. Your chamber hasn't been lengthened, but someone may have used a combination reamer to cut a new forcing cone and run it in a lattle too far. If you have a bore gauge, you could carefully measure the chambers from front to back and see if there is a slight constriction toward the back. If you don't have one you may be able to find someone who does or try a gunsmith to measure the chambers.

[Arthur Shaffer]

One other thing I ran into once was on a European shotgun that I suspectd that the barrels and chambers had been polished. The extractors were a snug fit and worked fine by hand. The gun would be hard to break open initially but then easy to extract the shell. One extractor was slightly proud of the chamber mouth when rubbed by finger. I took a fine grinder and fitted the extractor to the chamber mouth and it worked perfectly then. The extractor was biting into the brass base when fired. I suspect the chamber had been polished too much with the extractor not seated and that lead to the situation. When checking, remember that the extractor can be off in either direction and cause a problem. Take the barrels off, completely close the extractors and check the fit to the chamber.

[Rick Losey]

i have had that happen with my Super 10 - it seems the extractor is loose enough to give some wiggle room that allows the extractor to slide under hull in the left barrel.

Actually had it happen with my Super Fox this year as well - but that was caused by chambering a shell in bad light that had been in the loops of my coat too long and had some corrosion on the head.

i can twist the Ithaca extractor just a little and make it happen, so it seems to be combination of two factors - a sticky shell (polishing the chambers might help -so I'll try that) and either wear or less than perfect fit of the extractor- i've checked with a couple welders trying to find someone able to micro/laser weld a thin bit of material to the sides that I can then hand fit - but I think the two - less resistance in the process and no room to twist should take care of it

[Joseph Sheerin]

Yea, this has only happened at the gun club, where the rule is when shooting trap, only one round in the gun..... When both rounds are in, the shell in LT chamber probably keeps it from being able to slip under the shell in RT barrel

[Joseph Sheerin]

This has only happened in the rt barrel BTW.

[Brian Dudley]

The extractor simply does not fit correctly. It may be from another gun. It does not appear to be butchered up or anything like that. But it is sitting way too low in relation to the chambers on both sides.

[Joseph Sheerin]

The extractor simply does not fit correctly. It may be from another gun. It does not appear to be butchered up or anything like that. But it is sitting way too low in relation to the chambers on both sides.

It may look that way by the picture, but the edge of extractor is flush to chamber when in closed position.

I think I may have figured it out. There was some side to side play in the extractor, once it was clear of the barrel cuts it rested in. The set screw for the extractor, I tightened it down to where the extractor will open, but it no longer allows for that side to side play. It's not wobbly at all now, this may have corrected it.... The question is, how long til it works loose again I guess.

[Joseph Sheerin]

Maybe this is clearer. Now that I have tightened that screw though, there is no play when the extractors are extended like there used to be.

[Stan Hoover]

Joe,
Brian has a good point, that extractor should have the full serial number or the last 3 stamped on the backside or on the guide pin. I would have to double check one to remember where they’re stamped.
Or maybe you have already thought to check this?

[Joseph Sheerin]

I did not notice any serial numbers on the extractor itself. The barrels, reviever, wood, forend iron, etc all have serial numbers, but did not see them on extractor. Not that I have looked real hard. I don't remember seeing them on any of my previous NID's.

[Stan Hoover]

Joe,

I was incorrect on the extractor being numbered to the gun, the 2 NID’s that I checked are not numbered.
I checked an older Crass model and they were marked, but not with the serial, this was a part of a discussion here awhile back, what those #’s represent since they don’t match the guns serial number.
But back to the NID extractors, I’ve included a few pics of NID’s I checked and I believe they seem to fit somewhat tighter than the one you have. Don’t know for sure but it would seem a possibility that you may have a replacement extractor.

Stan

[Joseph Sheerin]

Ya, could be I guess, hoping that now that screw is tighter, and there is less play in it, they work fine....

[Joseph Sheerin]

A little update on my NID. After tightening up the set screw that holds the extractor in place, the gun worked flawlessly over the weekend on a quail hunt..... I guess it was just loose enough, that when one barrel was empty, it allowed too much play......

thanks all.

[Joseph Sheerin]

Hello Joe, I have owned a lot of N.I.D''s, I Know exactly the Problem, their is only one Fix, Sell it to me for Say $450 TO $500, AND YOUR PROBLEM
will go away.

Harry

Let me sleep on that.... :D

[Joseph Sheerin]

BTW, this is the gun... Sort of fond of it. Brian Board restored the wood with Timberluxe, and Breck Gorman the barrels.

No longer 100% original, but I think she's 100% beautiful.... :D

Brian asked me to take these pics of it for his FB page after I got it back.