MEC 9000GN

[edgarspencer]

I received the most unexpected and generous gift for my birthday; A shiny new MEC9000 GN Progressive loader. I am amazed how complex and well designed this machine is, especially after using my three 600Jr presses for nearly 50 years.
What I am interested in knowing is, does anyone have experience in using a 28ga 9000 press to reload 2 1/2" ? Is there enough adjustment in the machine to get the same well crimped hull I currently get from my 600Jr 28ga press?
Thanks, in advance for any advice.

[CraigThompson]

I’m pretty sure shorty loading is off the table on 9000’s, most likely Grabbers as well and I suspect 650’s also . Which pretty much covers all the MEC progressives .

[Daryl Corona]

Well happy belated birthday Dad. May I suggest a call to MEC? I think they will do a conversion for you but you will have to ship it to them. I could be wrong- I frequently am. If they will do it it will be worth it.

[Randy G Roberts]

Nice birthday gift for sure. The last time I checked with MEC converting to the short loads was no longer an option. If that has changed please do let us know Edgar.

[Frank Srebro]

I just bought a MEC 9000 in 28-gauge and to load 2-3/4" shells as chambered by modern guns. Just trying to learn here. I thought the original 28g shotshells were 2-7/8" and later standardized at 2-3/4". What guns were made for 28g shells shorter than 2-3/4" (considering the Parker chamber convention of 1/8" short for the intended shell)?

[Bill Murphy]

The "original" 28s were not 2 7/8". They were 2 1/2 shells, with many chambers, Parker included, 2 3/8". I have fired thousands of rounds out of 28 gauge Parkers with 2 3/8" chambers using factory and reloaded 2 3/4" shells over 63 years. I have not had any problems. To be fair, these guns were all 0 frame 28s. If they were 00 frame guns, I may not have been so willing to shoot big shells in short chambers.

[Daryl Corona]

Like Bill, I have fired thousands of rounds of 2 3/4" ammo out of my two, OO frame 28's with no ill effects. I know that many prefer to load and shoot 2 1/2'' shells and that is a matter of personal preference. To each his own.

[edgarspencer]

Bill, Daryl, Frank, Randy, and others; I had to call MEC this morning to order a part and asked the gent I was speaking with if the press could be made to load 2 1/2", and he was pretty emphatic that the design wouldn't permit it. To an engineer, even a retired one, that sounded like a challenge. I've been staring at the press, run a few hulls through (and obviously spoiled them in the 'learning' process) and believe I have an idea which will require minimal work, without changing any of the press mechanics; merely substituting one 'modified' part.
I'll run it by the guy I spoke with, maybe on a Friday, knowing lots of people don't like thinking on a Monday.
Bill, I agree, in an 0 framed gun, digesting an extra 1/4" probably isn't an issue. That said, I have 1200-1500 short hulls and NPEs, and wads, and didn't really want to pack them away in the land of abandoned components.

[Jack Kuzepski]

Edgar,
Let us know how the modified part works out (pics would be great). Thanks.

[Jerry Harlow]

Edgar,

I am attaching a link to Precision Reloading so you may see a brass spacer bushing. I use these on 600 JRs to load shells that are 1/4 shorter than what the press is set up for. They have 12, 20, and .410 (1/2"). They don't yet make a 28. But I'm sure with your machinist ability or contacts you could make them for 28.

Since the first three stations on the MEC 9000 only deprime and resize the metal, prime and dump powder, then seat the wad and drop shot, I believe after that station at the crimp starter station you could pull the shell, put the spacer under it, and put it back in its slot to move on after starting the crimp to the next two stations until at the last one where the shell and spacer would be dumped into whatever container. This would require making three of them to follow the 2 1/2" shells until they are dumped then remove the spacer and use it for the next shell. A few more actions but it would work. These spacers hold tightly to the shell and fit precisely in the MECs slots.

https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!l=MM&i=SB2014

[Mike Koneski]

Jerry, those spacers will not work on the progressive presses. The turret revolves with each pull of the handle to advance the hulls. Those spacers work on the 600 Jr because you are manually moving a single hull from station to station.

[CraigThompson]

Probably the easiest but a bit more costly is to order a new PW 800 Plus and when ordering tell them you want it set for 2 !/2" shells which they'll be happy to do for you for an additional $35-50 dollars on top of the cost of the press .

[Jerry Harlow]

Jerry, those spacers will not work on the progressive presses. The turret revolves with each pull of the handle to advance the hulls. Those spacers work on the 600 Jr because you are manually moving a single hull from station to station.

Mike,

Yes, I have four 9000 so this is why I am sure it works. What I wrote is when the shell gets to the first crimping station, pull it out and put the spacer under it. It will follow the shell until the end when it is ejected. Thus one would need to rotate three of them in the three final stages as the machine progresses and ejects the shell. Pull the spacer and put it on the next shell at the crimp station. The shells are easily pulled there at the first crimp station, the spacers fit the shell and the MEC firmly, and should work if the 28 gauge spacer can be made.

[Mike Koneski]

I got ya. I thought you were trying to have the spacer follow the hull around the entire turret. If you have to move them like you are saying, I'd just get a 600 Jr and load with it. If you're not looking to do Spolar production numbers, then the Jr would suffice.

[edgarspencer]

Craig, The press was a birthday gift, so, easy or not, MEC threw down the gauntlet when they told me the press will not load 2 1/2".
Jerry is correct, and I follow his train of thought completely, except The spacer is needed under the wad guide/shot drop tube also, because the hull needs to be Inside the fingers of the was guide, at least on a reload, in order for the wad to slide smoothly into the hull. This thought came to me in the middle of thee night, so I went down to the basement to confirm it.

This whole idea is rather silly for the number I need to reload on a weekly basis, which is 200 on average, 300 if I get more time to shoot. I've been feeding my habit on a row of 600Jr presses just fine, but when a 9000 press falls in you lap, you do stuff that only makes sense to yourself.

I've had "ideas" sent to me by a couple people, and apart from Jerry's spacer, none of the others will work, BUT, since I'm going full steam ahead, I plan on making my 'modified part' and proceeding.

The parts that I ordered from MEC came today and I plan on spending some time at the Bridgeport next week. My wife leaves for the month of November next Tuesday, and Apart from the myriad of daily chores, I'll have a clear head with no distractions. When I'm done, I plan on discussing it with MEC. What I don't have a handle on is whether there are others who would like to load 2 1/2" shells on their 9000. MEC could implement the change for only the cost of modifying the tooling used (by an outside vendor) to make the part I'm making. I think it will take about 10 minutes to change the part and go from 2.75" to 2.5"

[Daryl Corona]

I'd be interested in that modification Dad. I can shoot 2 3/4" in all my 28's except for a beautiful little Pieper 28 hammer which absolutely will not digest a 2 3/4'' round. I'd shoot it more if I could reload for it on my 9000.

[CraigThompson]

Craig, The press was a birthday gift, so, easy or not, MEC threw down the gauntlet when they told me the press will not load 2 1/2".
Jerry is correct, and I follow his train of thought completely, except The spacer is needed under the wad guide/shot drop tube also, because the hull needs to be Inside the fingers of the was guide, at least on a reload, in order for the wad to slide smoothly into the hull. This thought came to me in the middle of thee night, so I went down to the basement to confirm it.

This whole idea is rather silly for the number I need to reload on a weekly basis, which is 200 on average, 300 if I get more time to shoot. I've been feeding my habit on a row of 600Jr presses just fine, but when a 9000 press falls in you lap, you do stuff that only makes sense to yourself.

I've had "ideas" sent to me by a couple people, and apart from Jerry's spacer, none of the others will work, BUT, since I'm going full steam ahead, I plan on making my 'modified part' and proceeding.

The parts that I ordered from MEC came today and I plan on spending some time at the Bridgeport next week. My wife leaves for the month of November next Tuesday, and Apart from the myriad of daily chores, I'll have a clear head with no distractions. When I'm done, I plan on discussing it with MEC. What I don't have a handle on is whether there are others who would like to load 2 1/2" shells on their 9000. MEC could implement the change for only the cost of modifying the tooling used (by an outside vendor) to make the part I'm making. I think it will take about 10 minutes to change the part and go from 2.75" to 2.5"
I’d like a 9000 or Grabber that would load 10 gauge 2 7/8” . I talked to them about just such a thing about ten years ago , and atleast they were honest in saying yes they could do it but doubted if they’d sell twenty machines a year for a short 10 so from a buisness standpoint a no winner .

[Jack Kuzepski]

Edgar,
When I load short shells in 12, 16 and 20 gauge I start with once fired 2-3/4" shells that I cut down on my band saw using a jig to 2-1/2". I then load the shell as I normally would as a 2-3/4" shell. However after the shot is dropped, I place an over shot card on top of the pellets. then finish the shell as normal. I don't have to change anything on my press. I do not load 28 gauge but can't see why it wouldn't work.

[edgarspencer]

Edgar,
When I load short shells in 12, 16 and 20 gauge I start with once fired 2-3/4" shells that I cut down on my band saw using a jig to 2-1/2". I then load the shell as I normally would as a 2-3/4" shell. However after the shot is dropped, I place an over shot card on top of the pellets. then finish the shell as normal. I don't have to change anything on my press. I do not load 28 gauge but can't see why it wouldn't work.

Jack, I’m not sure I’m following you. I previously loaded all my 2.5” shells (12,16,20 and 28) on one of my 600Jr presses, each with a “short kit”.
I also cut down 2.75” hulls, both ‘once fired’ or, on NPEs, when 2.5” new wasn’t available. I made a ‘guillotine’’jig which gives an edge as good as new. I’ve shown the jig here before, but it simply puts the shell on an adjustable dowel, close the handle with a razor blade enclosed and twist the hull around. Takes about 5 seconds each.
When you say you then reload just as you would a 2.75, you must be using a different wad, because the load would otherwise be about even with the top of the now shortened hull. Impossible to ‘crimp, otherwise.
What press are you using? The crimp die on a 9000 won’t even touch the mouth of a 2.5’’ hull, unmodified. Not following the use of an overshot card either.

My whole point in this exercise is to make my 9000, a gift, do both.
My 2.5” loads are the same shot and powder charges as my 2.75” loads, Except, I use a specific wad for each, not the same for both.

[Jack Kuzepski]

Edgar,
I've rechecked some of my shells, my jig cuts them 2-9/16 not 2-1/2, my mistake. The idea was to load the shells just like a 2-3/4" shell and just before crimping drop an overshot card on the shot charge so the shot would not fall out when the finished crimp was done with the hole that was there from the shortened shell length. With 12 and 16 gauge, it works just fine. I had forgotten that with 20 gauge, it ended up almost like a roll crimp.
I found a pair of factory 28 gauge loaded shells on my loading bench from somewhere and measured the loaded shell length and you are right, there is no room at all for any kind of crimp. Sorry for the confusion.

[edgarspencer]

My idea for converting my 9000GN works perfectly.

In crimping a 2 1/2" shell in 600Jr press, it's necessary to raise the shell up 1/4". However, that isn't possible on a progressive press. But on the 9000, it isn't possible to either raise the shell, or lower the crimp die.

My idea was to lower only the internal profile of the crimp die(Thanks, Dave), without changing the way the die is secured in the press. The cam needs to still contact the roller on the die.

I accomplished the lowering of the internal die profile, by buying two new Crimp dies. First, I bored out one of the dies, straight thru. I did this by clamping the die on my Bridgeport milling machine, being sure it was aligned vertically. Using a deep hole boring bar, and machining out the entire internal profile.
Next, I took the second new Crimp die, cut off the side mounted arms, and chucking it in my lathe, turned it to a diameter so as to have a sliding, interference fit inside the first, bored out Crimp die. Using a two part epoxy, I cemented in the turned piece into the bored piece, but 1/4" lower.

The only other changes consisted of removing a 1/4" off the bottom of the side mount of the wad guide, and readjusting the spindex pre-crimp die, and the final 'taper die, both down 1/4". There is sufficient thread travel of these two dies.

After installing the new, modified final crimp die, no adjustment to the cam was required.

I ran a few single hulls through the cycle with no issues, so then ran a couple dozen hulls through in the normal manner.
The whole recipe for the 2 1/2" shell is the same as those run on the 600Jr press.
As is often the case with single stage charge bars, the bar on the 9000 also delivers less than the 3/4 ounce that it's supposed to drop, by about 12 pellets (#8), so I just lowered the top punch of the final crimp die. All crimps were satisfactory.
So much for MEC telling me a 9000 won't load a 2 1/2" shell.

[Stan Hoover]

Edgar,
I admire your knowledge and perseverance to figure out how to make it work.
Well Done,
Stan

[Daniel Carter]

After your answer to my PM i went and looked at my 9000 and of course you were right about the cam, all others could be adjusted. The wad guide was an easy fix. Now patent it and make MEC pay you a royalty to use it. Well done.

[edgarspencer]

Stan, everything I did on this 28ga press, could be done on any other gauge progressive press. The steps necessary to change the inner and outer relationship of the crimp die could be accomplished very inexpensively by the vendor MEC uses to make the part by a very simple modification to the injection molding die it is made from. This modification wouldn’t change the injection molding die permanently. It would make crimp die’s for both sizes.
In the end, I’m not sure MEC would acknowledge that there are enough customers interested in loading 2 1/2” shells.

[Stan Hoover]

Stan, everything I did on this 28ga press, could be done on any other gauge progressive press. The steps necessary to change the inner and outer relationship of the crimp die could be accomplished very inexpensively by the vendor MEC uses to make the part by a very simple modification to the injection molding die it is made from. This modification wouldn’t change the die permanently. It would make die’s for both sizes.
In the end, I’m not sure MEC would acknowledge that there are enough customers interested in loading 2 1/2” shells.

Edgar,

I believe you're correct on there probably not being enough demand for offering the mods to load 2 1/2" shells.

I guess we're in the minority:rolleyes:

I am however loading 2 1/2" 16 gauge shells on my Ponsness Warren press that is set up for 2 3/4". Takes a little adjusting of the final crimp die, but it can be done.

Stan

[Bill Jolliff]

Atta boy Edgar.

Another challenge successfully met.

Old engineers never die, they just keep on tinkering. And fixing things.

:clap:

[Mike Koneski]

Stan, everything I did on this 28ga press, could be done on any other gauge progressive press. The steps necessary to change the inner and outer relationship of the crimp die could be accomplished very inexpensively by the vendor MEC uses to make the part by a very simple modification to the injection molding die it is made from. This modification wouldn’t change the injection molding die permanently. It would make crimp die’s for both sizes.
In the end, I’m not sure MEC would acknowledge that there are enough customers interested in loading 2 1/2” shells.

Edgar, you could make those crimp dies and sell them as an aftermarket item to the progressive presses. MEC, PW, Spolar, Pacific, Hornady......

[David Noble]

My idea was to lower only the internal profile of the trim die, without changing the way the die is secured in the press. The cam needs to still contact the roller on the die.

I accomplished the lowering of the internal die profile, by buying two new trim dies.
Next, I took the second new trim die, cut off the side mounted arms, and chucking it in my lathe, turned it to a diameter so as to have a sliding, interference fit inside the first, bored out trim die.


Edgar, great thinking you did there but I was confused by your use of the term trim die. Perhaps I'm wrong, but should that have said crimp die instead?
I'm prepared to be scolded in the event that I am wrong. :rotf:

[CraigThompson]

Edgar you think you could semi easily convert a 12 gauge 9000 to 10 gauge 2 7/8” ? :whistle:

[edgarspencer]

Edgar, great thinking you did there but I was confused by your use of the term trim die. Perhaps I'm wrong, but should that have said crimp die instead?
I'm prepared to be scolded in the event that I am wrong. :rotf:
Dave, You're correct. Brain Fart I guess
Edgar, you could make those crimp dies and sell them as an aftermarket item to the progressive presses. MEC, PW, Spolar, Pacific, Hornady......
Mike, The translation of the Latin on my Family Crest is "Buy High, Sell Low". The Crimp dies, from MEC, are $20 each, and you need to buy two to make one, using my mock-up method. Think I could get $22? Hmm, do you think MEC would rent me the injection molding die? All that needs doing is move the core plug 1/4" out
Edgar you think you could semi easily convert a 12 gauge 9000 to 10 gauge 2 7/8” ? :whistle:
No, But I could mess it up pretty good trying.