JABC's

[Austin J Hawthorne Jr.]

Although these are a far cry from fine guns (Mr. Dunkle..feel free to delete this thread if you find it inappropriate) I was wondering if anyone here collects, or has had some JABC's at one time. I would like to start compiling the various names that were given to these guns. Also, if the condition was better than most, did you have any fears of shooting them given satisfactory barrel wall thickness? Photos, if you have them, would also be appreciated.
Thanks,
Austin

[Dave Noreen]

My old friend the late Henry Thomas of Federal Oak Farm in Charles County, Maryland, gave me this RICHARD 28-gauge that had been his father's.

110590

I actually watched Henry shoot a round of skeet with this gun with factory AAs!! I never shot it.

A few years later he gave me his 1938 vintage 20-gauge Fox-Sterlingworth that he was given for his 21st birthday that year. Over the next 55 years following his English Setters around the Fox-Sterlingworth had been intimate with every thorny growth and barbed wire fence from upstate New York to Southern Maryland.

110591

I shot a few limits of Virginia Doves with it.

I passed both of these guns on to a younger Southern Maryland English Setter man who also knew Henry just before I left the National Capital region twenty years ago. A couple of years later he sent me a picture of Henry's Fox-Sterlingworth with one of his Setters and an Upstate New York Ruffed Grouse.

[Mike Koneski]

Austin, what is a JABC?? Synapses are not firing on this one. :knowbetter:

[CraigThompson]

Austin, what is a JABC?? Synapses are not firing on this one. :knowbetter:

You’re not alone I’m a bit baffled .

[Mike Koneski]

"Just another bad copy"? :vconfused:

[Dave Noreen]

Just Another Belgian Clunker

[todd allen]

I had a chance to buy a Wells Fargo JABC at a gun show once. Barrels were about 20", and it had a copper plaque tacked on the side of the buttstock that said Wells Fargo, so it musta been real, right?
:rotf:

[Austin J Hawthorne Jr.]

I thought everyone knew about JABC's. They used to be found in barrels at almost every country gunshop and gun show for $50.00 to $100.00 apiece. They were my introduction to double guns when I was a kid as I would be allowed to use my grandfathers while hunting with him and my dad. Grandpa passed on while I was in the military and his brother was given his guns. Where they went from there I could never find out.

[Mike Poindexter]

I almost bit on one a few weeks ago, but the seller said his gunsmith said it was a wallhanger so I passed. Couple a hundred bucks, but a wallhanger I dont need. J. Manton sort of like Barker on those other JABC's.

[Bob Brown]

Quite amazing what the Belgium gun makers could put out for little money. Looking at the late 19th and early 20th century catalogues I've seen them listed for as low as $8 to $10. That would be low, but when you consider that there was a $5 import tax on each one and an ocean to ship them across it's hard to see how they survived.

[Dave Noreen]

Back in 1889 the magazine Forest and Stream was doing a series of pattern and penetration tests of various shotguns available to the American shooting public in each issue. For the September 26 issue they decided to take a break from the Greener, Scott, L.C. Smith, Winchester Model 1887, Colt, Remington, etc., and test H & D Folsom's cheapest doubles. Here is a brief quote of what they had to say --

“...but the mean grade gun of no name. "W. Richards," that nonentity in the gun trade, was stamped on the plate, but they were really only those cheap bits of ordnance which come through our custom houses, pay a duty of 40 per cent., and yet may be placed on the counters of the gun shop at $5 a piece. The Forest and Stream has already in past times expressed its opinion about these pestiferous products of the penurious population clustered on Belgian soil.”

Take that H & D Folsom!!!

[Austin J Hawthorne Jr.]

PESTIFEROUS and PENURIOUS? And that is when they were NEW. I guess you can't please everybody.

[Arthur Shaffer]

The best thing about 150 years of JABC's are the many really fine guns that are available at laughable prices because all Belgium guns tend to be lumped in with them by most buyers. I recently bought an early Acier 20 gauge hammer double that is engraved, gold inlaid and literally like new for under $1k. And it seemed to be no bargain in the marketplace really.
One of the best handling hammer 20's I have seen. Only drawback is that the wood quality is generally not up to the overall gun.

[Dan Steingraber]

Back in 1889 the magazine Forest and Stream was doing a series of pattern and penetration tests of various shotguns available to the American shooting public in each issue. For the September 26 issue they decided to take a break from the Greener, Scott, L.C. Smith, Winchester Model 1887, Colt, Remington, etc., and test H & D Folsom's cheapest doubles. Here is a brief quote of what they had to say --

“...but the mean grade gun of no name. "W. Richards," that nonentity in the gun trade, was stamped on the plate, but they were really only those cheap bits of ordnance which come through our custom houses, pay a duty of 40 per cent., and yet may be placed on the counters of the gun shop at $5 a piece. The Forest and Stream has already in past times expressed its opinion about these pestiferous products of the penurious population clustered on Belgian soil.”

Take that H & D Folsom!!!

In the interest of saving my Brethren the time;
pestiferous: dangerous to society, carrying or propagating infection

penurious: poverty stricken, extremley poor

:cool::rotf:

[Austin J Hawthorne Jr.]

Okay...I just picked up my latest JABC, only this one seems to be a step above the usual. It is a sidelock hammer double marked "RIVAL No. 6". 12 gauge - 2 1/2 in chambers - 28 1/8 inch barrels - Taper bored up until about 6 inches from the muzzles and then Jug Choked for about 3 inches. Rather nice piece of walnut with a horn buttplate and grip cap. It also has a horn inlay at the tip of the fore end and a small amount of hand engraving on the receiver and hammers and fore end release. All the usual BELGIUM stampings and proof marks. The barrels rib extension is machined in the form of a cloverleaf, and the rib is inscribed FINE DAMASCUS. At the muzzle end of the rib is a arrow terminating at the bead. The gun is tight and on face and shows little use.
Can anyone (Researcher) shed some light on the history of "RIVAL No. 6" or who marketed this brand name and what it may have originally sold for?
Austin

[tom tutwiler]

I thought everyone knew about JABC's. They used to be found in barrels at almost every country gunshop and gun show for $50.00 to $100.00 apiece. They were my introduction to double guns when I was a kid as I would be allowed to use my grandfathers while hunting with him and my dad. Grandpa passed on while I was in the military and his brother was given his guns. Where they went from there I could never find out.

You often find them above the fire places at many Cracker Barrels down south. General worth imo is less then $100.

[Mike Koneski]

You often find them above the fire places at many Cracker Barrels down south. General worth imo is less then $100.

Sounds like the perfect "project gun"!! :rotf::rotf:

[tom tutwiler]

Sounds like the perfect "project gun"!! :rotf::rotf:

Years and years ago (over 20) my buddy wanted a sxs to hang over his fireplace in Va. I told him I'd find him one off Gunbroker and that I would look for one pre 1898. Found him a German guild gun with the cheekpiece and swivels that looked good for I think $110 bucks. Was a 16 gauge with damascus barrels. Got the gun and it was wonderful. Tight on face with nice engraving, great damascus barrels. It was so nice I told him I'd like to keep it and find him another one. Nope he liked that one and its still over his fireplace to this day and has never been fired by him.

[Austin J Hawthorne Jr.]

So I loaded up some 7/8th oz. 12 gauge handloads to use in the Rival and tested them today. Started at a very low pressure and worked my way up to about 6800 psi. and 1150 fps. using PB powder. I could not be happier with the results. The Jug choked barrels threw a Modified, hole free, pattern at forty yards. Trigger pulls were crisp at about four pounds and the gun felt solid. I now plan to shoot some sporting clays with it and will, most likely, bring it to Ernie's in June 2023. BTW..If anyone is interested I posted a similar request for information on the Doublegunshop forum and received a little feedback.