JOSTAM pad

[Phillip Carr]

During my gun trading last week I picked up a Ithaca SBT 6E. ( Unfortunately with a cut down barrel). The gun is in excellent condition otherwise. It had a modern adjustable trap pad which I immediately removed. The butt is uncut and it appears to have about 50 small nail holes in it. I have two original Jostam foam rubber pads. I am thinking that I would like to install one of these as it appears it may have been a Jostam pad that was installed earlier in its life. Just looking for thoughts about going with the Jostam pad, or possible an original Silvers. I am also looking for advise on how to install a Jostam pad. What glue do you use, and do you put down glue on the butt before nailing?
I am also looking for thoughts about the possibility of monoblocking the barrel. Would there be any possibility of finding a replacement rib or having a new rib made, or a piece of rib added.
Thanks for any advice, and opinions.

[Bill Murphy]

A couple of questions. Have you removed the base plate and nails yet? If not, you can leave it in place and glue another foam base pad to the red base. If the base is not there, I would install a pad without nails. It is unlikely that the nail base Jostam was original to the gun. What is the serial number of your gun? Is it a Knick or a Flues? If it is a Flues, what variation? I would go with the barrel from another gun rather than a sleeve job. A perfectly usable Flues can be bought very inexpensively and the barrel salvaged. I believe I have a rough Knick barrel floating around here someplace. It needs work, but it isn't cut off.

[Bruce Day]

Phil, that might be a great way to put your old gun back to work if the barrel doesn't work for you now and if economical.

I know that Simmons Gun Specialities in Olathe KS has been known for barrel monobloc sleeving. I saw them making ribs that look right to me, so maybe they could make you a full length rib. Simmons is under new management , 913 782 3131. They have done a lot of monobloc barrels for Browning Superposed guns.

Good luck with your project. I called Lloyds Saddlery this morning and placed an order for a hand tooled lace on butt pad. I have a nice old H H Heiser VLA fully tooled holster for a Colt SAA and love the oak leaf carving, and they can do that on a lace on pad for one of my old beater Parkers . Thanks for the heads up.

[Phillip Carr]

Thanks for the feedback guys.
Bill the gun is an early Flues S/N 264149. It is the first variation I believe with the wedge bolting. What a great gun, I will post some pictures when it returns with the pad. As far as the pad, the nailed on rubber piece had previously been removed. If I did not nail the new rubber piece back on the butt, would you glue the pad to the thin pad and then glue the assembly to the butt?
Now for the barrels If you are intreasted in selling the Knick barrels and I could salvage them for this project I would be intreasted in discussing with you. Also if anyone knows where I can locate a 34" barrel for a flues SBT I would appreciate the information.

Bruce, I will also call Simmons and see what they have to offer. Great to also hear you have a lace on pad being made. I will look forward to checking on the progress. It looks like several members have placed an order for a few items. Nice to see that there are others that appreciate the fine workmanship still avalible for a few more years being turned out by some of the last true American Saddle makers.

[Phillip Carr]

I spoke to the Gunsmith doing the pad last night. We agreed to go with just gluing the pad on. The nails look like a problem waiting to happen. I will be calling Simmons this morning on the way to work to see what they might have to offer as a solution. I think finding an early Flues at a reasonable price would be the best option as Bill has suggested

[Bill Murphy]

I agree. The Knick barrel is nothing like a Flues barrel. Have you checked with Walt Snyder to see if he has factory records on this gun? In the early days of the Cutts Compensator, Colonel Cutts ordered some single traps to experiment with his compensator. Some were ordered to have the compensator installed at the factory, some were ordered with short barrels and the Colonel would install the compensator. It is assumed that he ordered some with standard length barrels also. If Walt can provenance your gun to Colonel Cutts, that may explain the cut barrel.

[Phillip Carr]

I did contact Walt and he provided some key information. The barrels were originally 34" and the pad was a Silvers. Looks like I will get a Silvers on order from Galazan. Also for $50.00 I will get a letter cqan hardly wait to see what other information I can gather. I also called Simmons today and spoke with Larry. They can build me a barrel for $1800.00. That said I will still try to look for a replacement barrel first. I also spoke to him about a 410 LC Smith I got in the same trade. The gun is in the white and will need to be completed. 28" ejector barrels. It is being shipped to me and I should have next week.

[Bill Murphy]

Let us know what Walt has to say about the original purchaser and I will try to provide information on him. Could you do some pictures?

[Phillip Carr]

I will post some pictures as well as the letter as soon as the letter comes in. I put a check in the mail this morning to Walt. I will start a search for an early model Flues barrel or gun I can salvage a barrel from. Any leads are appreciated.

[Bill Murphy]

Walt should be able to help you find a donor gun to provide you with a barrel. There are variations of Flues barrels but Walt knows which is which.

[Phillip Carr]

Here are a few pictures of the 6E still looking for a barrel. I have a Silvers pad on its way.
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/Philcarr/Ithaca%206E/DSC_0292.jpg
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/Philcarr/Ithaca%206E/DSC_0291.jpg
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/Philcarr/Ithaca%206E/DSC_0290.jpg
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/Philcarr/Ithaca%206E/DSC_0286.jpg
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/Philcarr/Ithaca%206E/DSC_0286.jpg
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/Philcarr/Ithaca%206E/DSC_0295.jpg

[charlie cleveland]

nice very nice... charlie

[Bill Murphy]

Phil, post a picture of the barrel from the rear as well as the other side so we can hook you up with a suitable barrel for your gun. I assume you have not yet found a barrel. Don't forget to post a picture of Walt's letter.

[Dean Romig]

What a wonderful Ithaca :clap:

[Phillip Carr]

Here are a few pictures. Still in need of a barrel. Thanks for the intreast and help. If all else fails I am still planning on having a choke sleeve or thin walls installed in this original barrel.

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/Philcarr/Ithaca%206E/DSC_0295.jpg
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/Philcarr/Ithaca%206E/DSC_0287.jpg
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/Philcarr/Ithaca%206E/DSC_0286.jpg
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/Philcarr/Ithaca%206E/DSC_0285.jpg
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/Philcarr/Ithaca%206E/DSC_0283.jpg

[Phillip Carr]

Walt sent me my letter today. Looks like some intreasting writing. I will try to decipher what is all written later. Thought I would post what I receieved
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/Philcarr/Ithaca%206E/scan0002.jpg

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/Philcarr/Ithaca%206E/scan0001.jpg

[Phillip Carr]

I increased the size of the hand written order and here is what I have found.

Hold L.P.S. wrote about price 9/4

His letter 9/10 says cannt fford to put $75.00 ina gun.
We wrote that he could send us $50.00 and we would accept his note for $25.00 which could be paid in 9 months.

Wants to trade for a double gun belonging to Mr Suarts and a diff which he thiks is about $50.00 without pad.

Our prop to Mr Suart was $75.00 without pad.

His letter 9/21 says accepts our prop of the 15th.

Wrote on 10/30 had Indian on one side man on other.

Sept 7, 1915
R. g. Weir 167 Stephenson St Freeport Ill

6E single 34 2 heel 1 1/4 comb 14 1/2 close even pattern with 3 drams powder 1 1/4 7 1/2 shot

Make stock 14 1/2 Silvers 9/2

[Bill Murphy]

My friend Walt Snyder is one great historian. Thanks, Walt. See you next month, I hope.

[Dave Noreen]

Wonderful Ithaca Flues SBT of the first style. I'll bet that was 3 drams of DuPont, Schultze, E.C., Empire, Dead Shot, Wolf, Curtis & Harvey Diamond Grain or Mullerite bulk smokeless. No trap shooter in 1915 was using black powder, and very likely damn few during the previous twenty years! By then black powder was only being used by the poorest of tenant farmers and sharecroppers, not gents who frequented trap fields with their 6E Ithacas.

[Phillip Carr]

One of the reasons I enjoy collecting these fine old guns. The great people you get to know, and the wealth of knowledge they share. I hope I can make it to the Southern next year.
I received an original red Silvers pad today, and will drop it off tomorrow at the Smiths. I will continue to look for a early gun with 34" barrels I can use. Thanks again for the information and camaraderie shared on this site.

Phil

[Bill Murphy]

L.P.S. would be Lou Smith, I assume. Mr. Weir probably started his competitive trapshooting career in 1913, shooting 150 Interstate Association birds and averaging .7333. He did not shoot in 1914. In 1915, he shot 300 birds and averaged .8500. In 1916, he was shooting his new gun and shot 550 Interstate birds with an average of .7945. In 1917, he shot 300 birds again and averaged .7600. He apparently did not shoot in 1918, and by 1920, he had moved to Rockford, shot only 150 American Trapshooting Association birds but at an improved .8400 average. It seems he was not a consistent shooter and probably enjoyed shooting non competitive trap more than for money. An Illinois resident in those days had to compete against Mark Arie, Homer Clark, Horace Kirkwood, C.M. Powers, Tom Marshall, W.R. Crosby, J.R. Graham, all among the greatest shooters in the country at the time.

[Phillip Carr]

Bill thanks for this information. Great bit of history on this 6E and the original owner.:)

[Bill Murphy]

You're welcome. It is about the greatest Flues single I have ever seen.