Model 11 Remington Collection

[Craig Larter]

From left to right, 1910 Premier #6 12/28, 1930 11F 20/28, 1910 #4 Tournament 12/28, 1928 11-A grade. The guns that killed off the SxS LOL.

[Daryl Corona]

That F/20 sure is a stunner Craig.

[CraigThompson]

If I’m not mistaken you showed me the 11F 20 at Mike’s . And I liked it quite a bit :cool:

[CraigThompson]

I also blame you and Frank for me buying the half dozen or so I acquired in the last ten months . Of course none of mine are the beautifully engraved grades .

[Kevin McCormack]

My Grade 6 Premier is actually the "Remington Autoloading Shotgun", or "Autoloading Gun" (RAG!?), the c. 1909 predecessor to the Remington Model 11, so designated that year. The shorebirds and waterfowl engraved on the sides of the receiver put the hook in me so bad I had to buy it. Being a loyal Browning A-5 fan and former collector helped put me over the edge. Special ordered for a big mahaf in San Antonio, it is the living embodiment of the statement that, "all art is not flat."

[Rick Roemer]

Thanks for posting. I started with Model 11s. I've never seen an engraved model in person. Very nice.

[Dave Noreen]

You guys are making my little $600 collection of three Sportsman A "Standard" Grades look bad!!

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[CraigThompson]

You guys are making my little $600 collection of three Sportsman A "Standard" Grades look bad!!

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Try to buy a plain 16 or 20 for $600 now , typically you’ll be disappointed :eek:

[Brian Dudley]

Nice lineup!

Is the right one marked as an 11-a? In the original graded lineup the A was unchecked. So that gun would be a later equivalent to an early B. You need to find yourself a nice C now.

[Dave Noreen]

The Model 11A "Standard" Grade got checkered wood circa 1928/9 when the Model 11 changed to the cross-bolt safety. Same time as the Model 10 was replaced with the Model 29. The Model 29A "Standard" Grade was introduced with checkered wood. Also, at that time, the Model 17A "Standard" Grade got a checkered stock and slide handle replacing the plain stock and ringed forearm they had since the 1920 introduction.

The Model 11B "Special" Grade came with an imported walnut stock while the A "Standard" Grade had American walnut. About 1936/7 the B went to select American walnut.

Actually, my collection was a bit over $600. The guns were $189 to $215. The 12- and 16-gauges are pre-WW-II solid rib guns and the 20-gauge is a 1948 plain barrel 28-inch modified. I later spent over half the price of the collection for a 26-inch vent rib SKEET barrel for the 20-gauge.

[Craig Larter]

Brian when I bought the Model 11 A I thought it was a B until speaking with Dave. The grade E/Expert is the one grade that rarely appears. A E was on display at the Southern but the wood had been poorly refinished and the asking price was very steep. You also come across very few straight grip Traps.

[Richard Flanders]

I started my hunting with a plain Jane 16ga model 11 that an uncle gave me.

[Dave Noreen]

Remington Arms Co. was on a roll right at the same time as our man Ansley H. Fox was trying to get the A.H. Fox Gun Co. going. Remington's professional shooter William Heer carried the high average for 1906 --

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Then for 1907, J.J. Blanks won the GAH with a Remington Autoloading Shotgun --

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Fred Harlow did it again in 1908.

[Stan Hillis]

A gracious benefactor loaned me a 16 ga. M11 when I was about 11 yrs. old. He had previously loaned me a .410 S X S at age 8, and "swapped it out with me". He owned a plantation that adjoined my Grandad's farm, where my parents and I lived (I still do), and would have numerous dove shoots to which he would invite Grandad and me. I really clicked with that M11 and in a year or so was outshooting most of the grown men on the fields. I can vividly recall the men leaving the field and moving to a shady area where they would sit and watch me shoot.

Though I killed my first quail and dove with the little .410 that M11 made a shooter out of me. I shot it until my 16th birthday, when I received a new 12 ga. from my parents, and returned the M11 to our friend. I remember it, and many of the dove shoots I used it on, with great fondness.

As Bob Hope used to sing, "thanks for the memories".

[Phil Yearout]

I was at my little local shop today and they had a 16ga Sportsman there on consignment. Cursory look seemed like real good condition; tag said $900. Don't know anything about the guns so don't know if that's a good or bad price. Not interested myself.

[CraigThompson]

I was at my little local shop today and they had a 16ga Sportsman there on consignment. Cursory look seemed like real good condition; tag said $900. Don't know anything about the guns so don't know if that's a good or bad price. Not interested myself.

Based on watching GB auctions I’d say $900 is at or slightly above what they’re bringing online .

[Will Gurton]

Glad to see things are coming together for your collecting Craig!

You'll have to put one to use this fall!

Will

[charlie cleveland]

I wonder if barrels and parts from a browning humback shotgun will fit barrel and other parts from a model 11 Remington....charlie

[Brian Dudley]

I wonder if barrels and parts from a browning humback shotgun will fit barrel and other parts from a model 11 Remington....charlie

Generally speaking. No.

There MAY be a few small parts that can interchange. But I cannot say for sure.

[Craig Larter]

Will Gurton thanks for all you help, your knowledge of M 11's is very impressive. Like any gun collection a good mentor and tapping into their knowledge is so important. Still looking for a great early E Expert, early T Trap and an early B.

[CraigThompson]

Brian when I bought the Model 11 A I thought it was a B until speaking with Dave. The grade E/Expert is the one grade that rarely appears. A E was on display at the Southern but the wood had been poorly refinished and the asking price was very steep. You also come across very few straight grip Traps.

The 11F 12 we had at the shop for awhile was a straight grip .

[charlie cleveland]

thanks brian...charlie

[Will Gurton]

Craig,

High condition examples of the Trap Gun are pretty rare.

I have seen very few in my searching over the years that are truly original and have great condition.

Nature of the beast I guess, made for high volume repetitive game like Trap.

Good luck but I don't have one either so you or I may only hear the after story! Lol

Will

[bob weeman]

I have had a couple C grades and both were well used. Gave one away to a local guy who loves to hunt but only had a single barrel 12. The other one with a polychoke I kept. I shoot it as well as any of my other guns with the exception of maybe my Remington 32's. have another beat up D grade I am selling locally thru my FFL. Stock is a little low for me on that one. Pretty beat up and not worth very much so it is going cheap. The C grade I have left has nice wood and great fun to shoot. Think I only paid a little over 300 for it. I actually like the old style safety too. Great guns those 11's.

[Brian Dudley]

When I started buying graded model 11s the first one I picked up was a C grade trap. It was in great shape. And was a bit of an odd one in that it had a 26” barrel. Still full choke.

[Dave Noreen]

From the 1905 introduction into the late 1920s the only barrel lengths offered were 26- and 28-inch. The 28-inch was standard with the option of 26-inch. From the 1923 Remington Arms Co., Inc. --

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About the same time Remington Arms Co., Inc. revised the Model 11 to a cross-bolt safety 1928/9 they added the 30- and 32-inch barrels. From the 1929 catalog over stamped with the 1930 introduction of the 20-gauge Model 11.

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[charlie cleveland]

wish I still had my model 11....charlie

[Will Gurton]

I have one that is in fair used condition, a 99,xxx serial number gun with the earliest ventilated rib barrel that I have ever confirmed, BUT it has a slight ring bulge at the choke.

So I figure steel shot can't hurt it and tripled on Blue Wing Teal it's first time out!

Just cant beat a gun that points itself!!

Good luck all with your Double and Non-Double persuits.

Will

[Bill Murphy]

I don't have any engraved Model 11s, but I do have a minty 20 gauge Skeet with beavertail forend and vent rib and a round top conversion 20 gauge that I believe was done at Abercrombie and Fitch. It is one of only two round top conversions I have ever seen. I would like to learn more about them.

[Kevin McCormack]

[QUOTE=Will Gurton;369850]I have one that is in fair used condition, a 99,xxx serial number gun with the earliest ventilated rib barrel that I have ever confirmed, BUT it has a slight ring bulge at the choke.

The Grade 6 I pictured in an earlier post is a vent rib gun, SN 71XXX.

[Brian Dudley]

I don't have any engraved Model 11s, but I do have a minty 20 gauge Skeet with beavertail forend and vent rib and a round top conversion 20 gauge that I believe was done at Abercrombie and Fitch. It is one of only two round top conversions I have ever seen. I would like to learn more about them.

Is that when they stock them to bring the wood up over the back of the action?

[Bill Murphy]

That's the one, Brian. I have not had any luck finding an old ad for them. Because of the quality of the ones I have seen, I suspect Abercrombie and Fitch. I saw one in a retail store engraved by Arnold Griebel in full coverage, but it had a cracked frame. In today's world of good gunsmiths, I probably would have made an offer for it. Both of the ones I have seen have a crack in the wood at the receiver. One of these days I'll fix the crack on my 20 gauge, but it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

[Will Gurton]

Bill I thought I pointed you to this previously, maybe I'm slipping, sorry.

Will

https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/lot-514944.aspx

[Dave Noreen]

The text says done in the 1920s, but serial number 440349 is a receiver put in work during February 1941. Circa 1937 Remington moved the "Model 11" or "The Sportsman" stamping from the left side of the receiver to the bolt. G & H did a serious modification of the trigger group moving the trigger way rearward.

[CraigThompson]

To each his own and all that and I understand the uniquiness of the gun . But to be honest I like the profile of a "normal" Model 11 more .

[Bill Murphy]

Thanks, Brian. No, I don't remember that one but it is quite a custom. Mine also has the trigger relocated as Dave mentions.

[Phil Yearout]

I was at my little local shop today and they had a 16ga Sportsman there on consignment. Cursory look seemed like real good condition; tag said $900. Don't know anything about the guns so don't know if that's a good or bad price. Not interested myself.

Was there yesterday and I was wrong; price was $500. Don't know anything about the gun; can provide shop info if anyone is interested.

[CraigThompson]

I recieved a photo copy of the entire Remington Society article on the Model 11 authored by Tipton . Quite helpful to say the least .

[Dave Noreen]

Don't put any faith in that serial number chronology at the end. It was done before the old "between the wars" factory ledger was discovered. Among other issues, it doesn't take into account that in 1937/8 the separate serial number sequences for the three gauges of The Sportsman was dropped and from then on The Sportsman were serial numbered right along in the three Model 11 gauge sequences.

[CraigThompson]

Don't put any faith in that serial number chronology at the end. It was done before the old "between the wars" factory ledger was discovered. Among other issues, it doesn't take into account that in 1937/8 the separate serial number sequences for the three gauges of The Sportsman was dropped and from then on The Sportsman were serial numbered right along in the three Model 11 gauge sequences.

I already noticed several discrepancies in the serial numbers as far as the Sportsman are concerned . But it’s a hell of a lot better than the Remington BS way of barrel dating .

[CraigThompson]

Dave do you know if this Tipton gentleman is still of the living ?

[Craig Larter]

I picked up a Expert grade made the last year for the Model 11, July 1948. 30" F vent rib, 14 3/4" LOD fantastic engraving especially the dogs. That fills a slot my collection, A, D, E, and F in both 12 and 20ga. Just need to find a good B and Trap. Not interested in the Riot.

[CraigThompson]

I picked up a Expert grade made the last year for the Model 11, July 1948. 30" F vent rib, 14 3/4" LOD fantastic engraving especially the dogs. That fills a slot my collection, A, D, E, and F in both 12 and 20ga. Just need to find a good B and Trap. Not interested in the Riot.

Have you seen any D, E or F’s in 16 gauge ?

[Craig Larter]

Craig I have not seen a 16ga D or above. My 20ga F is the only small bore graded D or above I have seen, I'm sure they were made but seem to be uncommon.

[CraigThompson]

Dave I was trying to wade thru the REM Society forum and ran across something you’d posted which I had no idea was factory done ! Cutts yes but wasn’t aware they’d ever put those bastard poly chokes on at the factory .

[Dave Noreen]

Remington factory Poly-Chokes were milled integral with the barrels, just like their ribs. Condon had this Model 11 20-gauge a while back --

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Here is one on a Model 31 12-gauge --

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[Dave Noreen]

This is the only engraved 16-gauge I've saved pictures of and it has replacement wood.

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[CraigThompson]

This is the only engraved 16-gauge I've saved pictures of and it has replacement wood.

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Bestill my heart and a skeet gun no less :bowdown:

[Dave Noreen]

If one wants to really pic nits, cross the i's and dot the t's, Remington only catalogued The Sportsman as a "Skeet Gun", but one could get a SKEET choke barrel for a Model 11.

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[CraigThompson]

If one wants to really pic nits, cross the i's and dot the t's, Remington only catalogued The Sportsman as a "Skeet Gun", but one could get a SKEET choke barrel for a Model 11.

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I wonder if those Sportsman that left the factory as so called "skeet guns" were marked skeet anywhere besides on the barrel ?

[Dave Noreen]

Not that I've ever seen. They did have the grip cap and the fuller forearm wood than the "Standard" Grades.

[Bill Murphy]

My "Skeet" 20 is only marked on the barrel as a choke marking. The beavertail forearm is the only real identifying feature.

[Pete Lester]

I picked up this Sportsman 20 ga Skeet at the Kittery Trading Post for cheap money earlier this month. I knew little about them but it appealed to me and thought I couldn't get hurt very much for the money. Somebody went to the trouble of making it a straight grip conversion. Not a bad job hut they didn't quite get the attachment to the receiver perfect so I gave it to Brian to make it right. I have no idea if the Cutts is factory or add on, barrel is serial numbered to the gun and marked Skeet. The modified choke threw a 73% pattern of 7/8 oz 8's at 40 yards. The Spreader choke threw a nice even 57% pattern. So far it's cycling flawlessly and with the rings in the light position it's cycling 3/4 ounce loads as well.

[Phillip Carr]

Posted pictures of my Premier F grade a few weeks ago under off topics. Barrel is .034 but there is no visible choke marking on the barrel. Nice gun but it has been restocked with a lower grade stock. I am guessing that the stocks cracked on many of these guns. I believe the F grades were stocked with Circassian walnut.
Anyone recommend a place where I can buy a good replacement? A good pantograph stock?

[charlie cleveland]

must be the kind of wood used..thesister to the model 11 the browning a 5 did not have many problems with their stocks...I aint seen a model 11 for sale in my area for a good while...charlie

[Bill Murphy]

Phil, I think that's the original stock. English Walnut doesn't have the figure that high grade American Black Walnut does.

[CraigThompson]

I know I had a ball shooting 12 and 20 gauge Model 11’s at Rock Mountain this year . I hope to do that again next year .

[CraigThompson]

I’ve seen a few blurbs about Remington once upon a time making what they called “Long Range” barrels for model 11’s and 31’s years ago . I’d be curious to know how much more if any was the constriction on a regular 30 or 32 inch full choke barrel vs one of these Long Range barrels . Until I see proof I’m gonna tend to think it was just a marketing ploy . The following three Mr. Noreen had posted on the Remington Society forum .

[CraigThompson]

I’ve got two 32” and one 30” I think I’ll measure and see how much constriction they have since they’re rollstamped “full” . And maybe someday one or two of the marked Ling Range barrels will be available to measure .

[Dave Noreen]

That checkering pattern is what is shown in the early catalogs on the "Tournament" and "Expert" Grades. The "Premier" Grade was shown with a bit fancier pattern. The quality of that wood is about the same as the imported walnut on my Father's 1896 vintage AE-Grade Remington Hammerless Double.

[Will Gurton]

Dave do you know if this Tipton gentleman is still of the living ?

Craig Mr. Jim passed in 2015 I believe.

He was a fine mentor and friend.

Will

[Will Gurton]

Phil, I think that's the original stock. English Walnut doesn't have the figure that high grade American Black Walnut does.

Phil,

If you ever have the stock off for any reason you can confirm if it does or does not match the gun's serial number.

I would bet that you are correct, however, if you decide to part with the existing one just know that it does appear to be a factory Pre-1909 Tournament (D Grade) stock. If I am correct the serial number would be under the 60,xxx mark.

Good luck in finding a donor or having one made,

Will

RAS No. 6 Factory Wood

[Will Gurton]

That checkering pattern is what is shown in the early catalogs on the "Tournament" and "Expert" Grades. The "Premier" Grade was shown with a bit fancier pattern. The quality of that wood is about the same as the imported walnut on my Father's 1896 vintage AE-Grade Remington Hammerless Double.

Expert more fully covers the bottom of the grip.

Will

[Phillip Carr]

Thank you Dave and Will for sharing information on the model 11 stock patterns.

[Craig Larter]

Examples of checkering and stock wood.
1. 1928 A Grade
2. 1910 D Tournament
3. 1948 E Expert
4. 1910 F 12ga
5. 1929 F 29ga

[Phillip Carr]

Thannk you Craig. I really Appreciate the posting of these examples.

[Will Gurton]

Phil,

Your gun would match Craig's 1910 pattern, not the earlier pattern of two of my guns posted above.

Notice the stock you have now is the pattern prior to Craig's 1910 Tournament, no split in the top section with the additional "wing".

Good Luck,

Will

[Phillip Carr]

Thank you Will for this as well as the Pm’s. I hope sometime to find a stock ( not likely ) or have it restocked correctly.

[CraigThompson]

After seeing Dave’s post about the Remington “Long Range” barrels I was curious about the chokes in the three 12 gauge Model 11 barrels in my possession . I’ve got a 30” vent rib barrel that’s on a 1922 gun and serial numbers to that gun , it has 35 thousandths . I’ve got a 32” solid rib barrel that’s on a 1932 gun and serial numbers to it as well , this one has 43 thousandths and finally I have a plain 32” barrel I bought by itself and it measures 40 thousandths . I’m hoping I can run across a Long Range barrel and get a reading from it .

[Will Gurton]

After seeing Dave’s post about the Remington “Long Range” barrels I was curious about the chokes in the three 12 gauge Model 11 barrels in my possession . I’ve got a 30” vent rib barrel that’s on a 1922 gun and serial numbers to that gun , it has 35 thousandths . I’ve got a 32” solid rib barrel that’s on a 1932 gun and serial numbers to it as well , this one has 43 thousandths and finally I have a plain 32” barrel I bought by itself and it measures 40 thousandths . I’m hoping I can run across a Long Range barrel and get a reading from it .

Good Luck Craig,

I have only seen 2 in the years that I have been following them that I thought were 100% authentic from the factory, and have never had one in my hands.

Will

[CraigThompson]

Good Luck Craig,

I have only seen 2 in the years that I have been following them that I thought were 100% authentic from the factory, and have never had one in my possesion.

Will

Did you happen to measure the constriction ? I’m still of the opinion the roll stamp on the actual factory marked Long Range barrels was just a marketing ploy . But I could very well be wrong .

[Will Gurton]

Craig edited my previous post to hands from possesion.

Never seen one in person only photos.

I'm of the opinion if it has a factory roll marked choke marking it is not a true "Long Range" barrel.

Only barrels that have only Long Range and no other choke marking wether on the side or bottom of the barrel qualify in my opinion if they were truly a custom choking.

Like I said I have seen 2 such examples in photos.

Will

[Kevin McCormack]

Craig(s) and Will: My M11 32" solid rib barrel marked "Long Range" is choked .036 using a Hosford gauge; SN is 429845 and barrel numbers to the gun.

[CraigThompson]

Craig(s) and Will: My M11 32" solid rib barrel marked "Long Range" is choked .036 using a Hosford gauge; SN is 429845 and barrel numbers to the gun.

Did you have that gun at Baltimore a few years back when you had I think it was a trap gun display ?

[Kevin McCormack]

No Craig - I only recently bought it - you may be thinking of the FN Browning A-5 Special for Pigeons, a 30" SR gun that was in the display.

[Bill Murphy]

I don't remember that Kevin and I have ever had a trap gun display, but our pigeon gun display was quite impressive.

[CraigThompson]

No Craig - I only recently bought it - you may be thinking of the FN Browning A-5 Special for Pigeons, a 30" SR gun that was in the display.

That was maybe 6-8 years ago ?

[Dave Noreen]

Do you think the engraved LONG RANGE are fake? Model 31 TC. picture supplied to me by Walter Snyder.

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[Will Gurton]

Do you think the engraved LONG RANGE are fake? Model 31 TC. picture supplied to me by Walter Snyder.

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Sorry Dave I think I sent that to you years ago.

Walt had the "Ordnance" marked RAS No. 6.

That 31TC I beleive is right as rain.

Llano Bill sold it on Trap Shooters to someone and I never got a contact to see if he minded sharing the choking profife with me.

Will

Here is the other "Kosher" Long Range I have photos of, IMHO.

[Randy Davis]

Hang Tags for a Remington Model 11 A grade 12ga. 28"...

[Dave Noreen]

Thanks. The Remington Arms Union Metallic Cartridge Co., Inc. was the company name from 1916 to 1920.

[Dave Noreen]

It appears that the boys and girls at Ilion didn't rush into updating the roll-stamps used on their shotguns. The Model 17 20-gauge pump was introduced in the first Remington Arms Co., Inc. catalog circa 1920/21. However, up through the 28xxx range the barrels are still marked The Remington Arms Union Metallic Cartridge Co., Inc. which was the company name 1916 to 1920. This from serial number 28023. Unfortunately, the first Model 17 page is missing from the old factory ledger. Page 2 begins with 35639 being the highest serial number receiver put in work by January 19, 1926.

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The date code on this barrel is DR D = September R = 1924

I just noticed this Model 11 which came on GI yesterday. It is serial number 280017 a receiver that the old factory ledger shows was put in work during May 1924.

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This barrel has a date code WR W = August R = 1924 --

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They seem to have taken a bit different tack with the Model 10 pumps --

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[Bill Murphy]

I just picked up a Model 11 20 gauge 28" full, solid rib barrel and a 28" modified plain barrel for my pair of Model 11 20s. These have been pretty hard to find. Now to test the full choke solid rib barrel on the Chinese Trap range.

[Joe Wheeler]

Yall have some beautiful firearms.