10 Gauge Supplies TOW

[Bruce P Bruner]

A shoutout for Track of the Wolf. I ordered:
10 gauge 2-5/8” Parker Bro’s “A” Brass Shells
9 Gauge .125” .815” diameter Nitro Card Wads
9 Gauge Overshot Cards .815” diameter
9 Gauge Fibre Wads .815” diameter
The quality of the brass hulls far exceed the Magtech I am accustomed to.
I will soon be launching fire and lead from the old Lifter.

[Arthur Shaffer]

I ordered the same boxfull about 6 months ago and was really pleased. The only thing you might consider is ordering some8 gauge overshot wads. They go in a lot tighter, and since you won't be roll or fold crimping. you may like them better. I have had the 9's kick out crooked before getting them cemented in place.

[CraigThompson]

Thats not exactly my prefferred cup of tea . But it may very well turn to that for everyone soon .

[Keith Doty]

Bruce, that looks a lot like the box that showed up at my place a few weeks ago! The hulls ARE very nice and everything I wanted was available. I've been using a 9 ga. nitro card for an OSC and hot glue to seal. Was pleasantly surprised, firing removed 99% of the glue and no special cleaning was required before loading again. I'm getting more leading than I like (any is too much?). I think my next move is to try some of the Mylar or Teflon wraps/inserts from BP.

[Bruce P Bruner]

I'm getting more leading than I like (any is too much?). I think my next move is to try some of the Mylar or Teflon wraps/inserts from BP.
My method of “zero leading” for the cast bullets I make is powder coating them. I believe I could powder coat a small batch of lead shot just to test the feasibility. Imagine lipstick red birdshot!
I have been cleaning the bore of the above Lifter and finally a tight fitting oil patch is coming out without much trace of color. There never was any evidence of rust, must have been spent power or lead. The stages went from red rubbing compound on tight patches to a chunk of Frontier Pad with Hoppes and oil, spun up on a slotted wooden dowel in a cordless drill with intermittent passes with a bronze brush. The moderate pitting is of course still there, but I wanted the bores to be a clean as possible this side of the dreaded “hone”.

[Keith Doty]

The Frontier pad and oil on a stick is pretty hard to beat and certainly won't hurt the bore. I like the thought of lipstick red Bismuth shot, wonder if you could add red buffer and get a red cloud outta the barrel? How much fun would that be in a duck blind?! Imagine your local Game Warden opening one of those puppies up to check your shot.

[Keith Doty]

Mylar wraps on the way as are some BPD-10 wads. I'm thinking to make a fixture to cut the wads down in length to duplicate the shot cup on an SP-10. Plan is to use a gas seal over the powder, a combination of fiber wads for correct height, then the cut down plastic shot cup. Kind of a pain but I don't see any 10 ga. wads in our near future. I shoot a few dozens of short 10s at a time not hundreds and at some point I'm going to run out of SP-10s. I'm starting on this now for future use. If we get some 10 ga. wads "back on the shelf" at some point, GREAT. If not I'll have some workable alternatives that don't leave a ton of shot glued to the insides of my barrels and the additional cleaning chores.

[Bruce P Bruner]

Square load of 3 Drams of powder and 1-1/4 oz #8 shot seemed like an appropriate load for the “Short Ten”.
My rough weight conversion:
77.3 +/- grains of Fg Black Powder
497 +/- grains of #8 shot

[charlie cleveland]

those brass shells really look good.....charlie

[Keith Doty]

As my knowledge of black powder is nonexistent I just have to ask "What combination of powder and wadding is under your shot charge? OSC and sealer?

[Bruce P Bruner]

As my knowledge of black powder is nonexistent I just have to ask "What combination of powder and wadding is under your shot charge? OSC and sealer?
Real Black Powder Only. I can't speak for BP substitutes, I don't use them.
A square load means the same amount of powder and shot BY VOLUME. See the photo of the volumetric measure.
Pour proper amount of 1F, 1-1/2Fg or 2Fg Black Powder into primed case
The Nitro card wad is next, press it over the powder strongly (no air gap)
Then I used two fiber wads (rolled in melted bullet lube) pressed in firmly
One more Nitro Card just to take up more space
Pour shot over wad column
Press in the Over Shot Card, evenly and snug
I used Sodium Silicate to seal the thin Over Shot Card, however there are other products that work as well.
Caution Note: For Back Powder Loading Only.
My methods are what works for me. Others may do it a bit different.
Old Eynsford Black Powder delivers a bit more velocity and burns cleaner than Goex in my experience.
Conversion Chart for Black Powder Drams to Grains:
Drams - BP Grains
1 - 27.34
2 - 54.68
2.25 - 61.52
2.5 - 68.35
2.75 - 75.19
3 - 82.02
3.25 - 88.86
3.5 - 95.69
3.75 - 102.53
4 - 109.36

[Bill Murphy]

Why only black powder in brass cases?

[Keith Doty]

No clue other than I've been told you shouldn't. I have found absolutely no data for smokeless in brass. As I said I have proceeded VERY carefully. I'm quite familiar with pressure signs in center fire rifle and pistol ammo and have watched carefully for any indication there might be the slightest issue.
In this case, I believe Bruce is referring to the fact that black powder is done by volume not weight. The same volume of smokeless as black would certainly be a serious issue. My suspicion is some of the old burst barrel horror stories involved charging a gun with the same volume of smokeless as one would use with black powder.
Thank you, Bruce, for the loading info. Is there a "best" among the black powder grades you mention for this load? Don't the different grades burn differently?

[Bruce P Bruner]

"Is there a "best" among the black powder grades you mention for this load? Don't the different grades burn differently?"
I'm using what I have on the shelf. Fg is probably better suited for 10 gauge, while FFg would be better for 12 gauge. The "Fg, FFg" designation refers to the size of the powder granulations, "Fg" has larger grains than "FFg". Pistols would use FFFg and for flash pan use in flintlocks, FFFFg is what is used. The smaller the granulations the faster it burns.
The "square" load for my 10 gauge is a common load for 12 gauge. I have no need to push the envelope considering the shotgun is 142 years old and I want to avoid destroying the stock or even testing it's limitations. I respect my Parkers and when they go to the next caregiver they won't have been abused by me.

[Keith Doty]

Thanks for the tutoring on Black Powder 101, much appreciated. I'm with you on not beating up fine old guns as well as pounding on old shotgunners! Two or three snow goose hunts a year I feed an Ithaca Mag-10 or a Winchester Super-X a diet of rhino rollers but I stick with fairly light shot loads and aim for 1200 FPS with my SxS guns. I don't need anything more and sure don't need to damage a stock!

[Milton C Starr]

Why only black powder in brass cases?

The pistol primers most these brass cases use wont reliably ignite smokeless powder in the roomy shotgun cases. You need brass cases that take a 209 primer if you want to use smokeless. Like the RMC and RCC brass shotshells, ideally brass shotshells should generate lower pressures than any plastic shotshell since they have more internal volume and no basewad.

[Keith Doty]

Interesting. I am using Winchester large pistol primers and Longshot powder and am having no issue with ignition. I'm getting a nice clean burn (no powder un-burnt, very little powder residue in spent hull) in TOW 2 7/8" 10 ga. brass hulls w/ 1 1/4 oz. I DID initially load half a dozen that were too light and DID get a less than perfect burn, only about 900 FPS (I have a chrony that reads reliably shotshells). You could tell they were a bit lame when fired.

[Milton C Starr]

Interesting. I am using Winchester large pistol primers and Longshot powder and am having no issue with ignition. I'm getting a nice clean burn (no powder un-burnt, very little powder residue in spent hull) in TOW 2 7/8" 10 ga. brass hulls w/ 1 1/4 oz. I DID initially load half a dozen that were too light and DID get a less than perfect burn, only about 900 FPS (I have a chrony that reads reliably shotshells). You could tell they were a bit lame when fired.

Its seems results vary significantly between powders and load methods using large pistol primers and brass shells with smokeless. One method ive read about to resolve potential ignition problems is to just take a fiber wad, punch a primer diameter hole in the center and glue it in the bottom of the case as a homemade base wad. I could see issues with that though like it coming loose and getting lodge in the bore and not realizing it. Im sure each powder has different characteristics when its comes to ideal pressures for a clean burn and how easy they are to ignite etc. I keep procrastinating on order brass shells, I wonder if I should order them milled for American 209s or Cheddites.

[Keith Doty]

I'd be scared of the glue-in-basewad, sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. We just had a member injured and base wad separation is a suspect. The Winchester primer I use is for both standard and magnum pistol loads. I use them in .41 mag and .44 mag loads as well as 10MM and .45ACP so I had them on hand when I ordered hulls. They ignite 14 gr. of Blue Dot just fine, thought I'd try then in the brass, had good results. Now, the only powder I've tried them on in brass shotshells is Longshot in a 10 ga. Can't speak for any
other powder, gauge, or combo.
I see no reason not to order the hulls with 209s in mind.

[Richard Flanders]

I've shot smokeless powder through my 1907? damascus Ithaca 1-1/2 Flues 12ga in stainless steel hulls that took a pistol sized percussion cap on a nipple on the back of the shell. They worked great and got me a few spruce grouse. I haven't seen those steel cases since the early 80's. I do remember that they were pretty stout and took fiber wads if I remember right.

[Milton C Starr]

I'd be scared of the glue-in-basewad, sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. We just had a member injured and base wad separation is a suspect. The Winchester primer I use is for both standard and magnum pistol loads. I use them in .41 mag and .44 mag loads as well as 10MM and .45ACP so I had them on hand when I ordered hulls. They ignite 14 gr. of Blue Dot just fine, thought I'd try then in the brass, had good results. Now, the only powder I've tried them on in brass shotshells is Longshot in a 10 ga. Can't speak for any
other powder, gauge, or combo.
I see no reason not to order the hulls with 209s in mind.

Yeah I dont see a reason to be experimenting with homemade base wads.
I talked to Precision Reloading about testing brass shells but they said they cant do it brass.

[Paul Harm]

The question of why not smokeless powders in brass cases came up on a different forum once. I don't remember exactly why, but if you'll notice all modern shells have a base wad so none of the powder lies below the top of the primer. If I remember it's so the powder starts burning in the back and works it's way forward. With BP it doesn't matter. Sorry I couldn't help more.