16 gauge 2.5" Bismuth Load Data

[Mark Sjoberg]

Hello all,

Does anyone have any reloading data similar to this?

16 2 1/2 Bismuth 7/8 oz 1225 7000

That is a bismuth load that RST sells when available. Trying to find a recipe with similar specs. Plan to go fully bismuth for hunting this season. Most recipes that are close are using BPI's ITX-10 shot, which I cannot find right now. Hopefully that changes in the near future. I have plenty Fiochi hulls but would take a Cheddite recipe as well.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

[Daryl Corona]

Go search the sites "24 hour Campground" and "16ga.com. Plenty of loads there.

[Mark Sjoberg]

I have. And I have accumulated a lot of recipes, but nothing for Bismuth. BPI has warned me against replacing lead in recipes with bismuth claiming the harder shot would increase pressures.

[Aaron Beck]

In theory the increase is under 1000psi, but this is only rumor and there is no substitute for testing your own loads. if you found a load that would work with room for the increase, send it to tom armburst and let us know please. I have loads that i use, but none are lab tested.
there is also alleged to be a load printed in last summers (i think) dgj, 16 ga bismuth with universal but I am not a subscriber.

[Mark Sjoberg]

Thank you Aaron. I'll post what I find out.

[Jim McKee]

BPI list this load in their # 11 Edition of The 16 Gauge Manual
bismuth 16 b. 2.5 inch Cheddite hull/ Ched209 primer/ 25 grns. Longshot powder/ Z-16 wad/ OS16- overshot card/ 7/8 oz bismuth either # 5,6 or 7 (382 grns.) and roll crimp
PSI 7040/ FPS 1420
listed on page 75.

Reminder this is a roll crimp load

[Harold Lee Pickens]

I for one am somewhat skeptical of BPI loads--they are usually quite "hot"--1400 fps and only 7040 psi, really?
A 1 oz lead load in 2 1/2" cheddite, 18 gr Longshot, SG 16 wad, W209 is listed at 1200 fps and 7270 psi. I know, different payload, different wad , but 6 gr less powder, but getting slightly higher PSI. Wouldnt want to shoot that first load thru damascus until I was sure data is accurate.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

well, let me backpedal for a minute, on the 16 ga forum, they recommend taking a known lead load, and reducing it by 1/8 oz for Bismuth. I'll try and look for more info, cause I wouldnt mind reloading some for myself.
Clear as mud now, isnt it.

[Aaron Beck]

Harold
thats a reasonable starting point, but it should be noted that a 7/8 oz charge bar will not drop 7/8 of of bismuth shot because the densities are different. You probably know this already. Your eventual pressure may come close to the 1 oz load since the pellet counts are similar but it may exceed it too since the material properties of bismuth are different.
I spoke with Tom Armburst about this at length last year with the best intention of sending loads for testing, but I couldnt get all the components I wanted to base my load on. His advice was to start with the dgj load.

[Mark Sjoberg]

I don't understand why more testing isn't going on with Bismuth. It's a great replacement for lead in our older sxs's. It's just so darn hard to find anything other than lead for the 2.5" 16 gauge. I guess BPI wants to sell it's ITX-10, which I would buy if I could get it.

Thanks for all of your input guys.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

I found this load using Nice shot( whatever that is) on the 16 ga forum:
Federal hull cut to 2 1/2"
Win 209
SG 16 wad
7/8 Nice shot
6 fold crimp
1107 fps @ 7280 psi
Tom Armbrust tested

Aaron, yeah I think they are measuring it by volume.
This non tox loading is all new to me.

[Aaron Beck]

If there is anyone interested in pooling resources to get a 7/8 oz bismuth load worked up, please pm.
I would like to start with some of the most common components including rst once fired hulls, gulandi 16 wads and the cheddite cx 2000 primers we all bought up this winter. powder currently in production.

science-but not rocket science.

[Mark Garrett]

Cheddite 2 1/2" 7/8 oz Bis Green Dot 15.5 Win 209 SG-16 1119 6,228 16 ga forum OSC

[Jim McKee]

Mark,
The GD load you posted looks very good depending on how it patterned.
Roll crimp?
Jim

[Pete Lester]

I downloaded a spreadsheet from the 16ga page some time ago. They list a few bismuth loads. Only one is what I would call period correct.

Fiocchi 16 hull 2.5", Fiocchi 616 primer, 22 gr Long Shot, SG-16 wad, 7/8 ounce bismuth, 1250 fps, 7800 psi, source BPI.

[Mark Sjoberg]

Guys this is probably another thread topic but certainly in line with what we’re discussing. I hand load 2.5” 16 gauge shells, no press. This means I prefer to roll crimp. I prefer this because I weight every component and just like the way roll crimps look. Kind of like why I tie flies for fly fishing. Through my research it seems the general consensus is that roll crimps reduce pressure as compared to a fold crimp. What’s every one’s opinion of replacing a fold crimp in a recipe with a rolled crimp?

[Harold Lee Pickens]

As you said, beautiful shells, but time consuming. Benefit is that it supposedly lowers pressures. I could do that for hunting only, but too much time involved if shooting targets.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Here is a load that looks good, and maybe that first load from BPI is accurate:
Cheddite 2 1/2"
7/8 oz Bismuth
SG16 wad
CCI 209 primer
Longshot 19 gr
1100 fps and 4700 psi
Tom Armbrust tested

[Pete Lester]

Here is a load that looks good, and maybe that first load from BPI is accurate:
Cheddite 2 1/2"
7/8 oz Bismuth
SG16 wad
CCI 209 primer
Longshot 19 gr
1100 fps and 4700 psi
Tom Armbrust tested

Duck hunting often involves cold weather, I am not sure I would trust a load at 4700 psi to not squib on me when there is duck in range.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Good point Pete

[edgarspencer]

Here is a load that looks good, and maybe that first load from BPI is accurate:
Cheddite 2 1/2"
7/8 oz Bismuth
SG16 wad
CCI 209 primer
Longshot 19 gr
1100 fps and 4700 psi
Tom Armbrust tested

I'm having trouble believing any load using CCI primers can be under 5000psi.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

well, they were standard CCI 209's, not their 209M, which is much hotter.

[Mark Sjoberg]

Hi all,

I had a question about roll crimping earlier in this thread. I contacted BPI and here is the response I received.

Thanks for your inquiry.



A Roll crimp typically adds less pressure to the load than does a fold crimp.



The standard rule of thumb is ‘ you can roll crimp a fold crimp load, but do not fold crimp as roll crimp load’.



Now with that in mind, we do not recommend roll crimping a fold crimp load if the published pressure is near 10,000 psi or more, just in case something goes wrong.



Regards,



Dick Oftedal

[Mark Sjoberg]

Given the feedback from BPI, I am going to send 3 or 4 16ga, 2.5", low pressure, Bismuth, roll crimp loads in for testing once I can get all components. Don't hold your breath but I will report back here. Mark