Bad time to start reloading 10 gauge?

[Ben Safryn]

So I want to start hand loading short low pressure 10 gauge for my plain twist barreled lifter. Read through a lot of the threads on it. Seems a lot of components/materials are hard to get right now. What I have around my bench is:

- Ability to roll crimp 10 gauge

Hulls:
- 10ga Cheddite 3.5” primed w/cheddite 209 (can cut hull to size)

Powder:
- IMR Red
- IMR Blue
- Hodgdon Clays
- Hodgdon Universal Clays
- Hodgdon H110

Wads:
- 10ga (Hornady) Pacific Versalite (same as REM-SP10?)
- 10ga Precision XY12510 1/8” nitro cards (overpowder or as filler in shot cup)

Overshot cards:
- 10ga
- 12ga
- 16ga

But I can’t find a recipe to utilize these components.

Guess it’s time to roll a few up and send to Tom Ambrust for testing.

Anyone have any suggestions to begin with? Is one of these powders close to red dot? As I seem to see alot of red dot recipes. I did find an IMR Blue recipe but I need 16ga 1/4” fiber cards.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Category/n-jxzHf/1877-Parker-Lifter/i-DPWFTQd/0/b5f481bb/XL/IMG_1382-XL.jpg (https://fishrising.smugmug.com/Category/n-jxzHf/1877-Parker-Lifter/i-DPWFTQd/A)

https://photos.smugmug.com/Category/n-jxzHf/1877-Parker-Lifter/i-pVj2CSR/0/c6120e8a/XL/IMG_1383-XL.jpg (https://fishrising.smugmug.com/Category/n-jxzHf/1877-Parker-Lifter/i-pVj2CSR/A)

https://photos.smugmug.com/Category/n-jxzHf/1877-Parker-Lifter/i-2MLBhk2/0/b4059dfe/XL/F9600180-E017-46B8-AC25-70039D74218F-XL.jpg (https://fishrising.smugmug.com/Category/n-jxzHf/1877-Parker-Lifter/i-2MLBhk2/A)

[Milton C Starr]

A 12 ga fiber wad may be able to be used in the shotcup as filler instead of a 16 ga one. If you got a local harbor freight or similar store you can run down there and get a 3/4" punch or smaller and punch out some cardboard discs to make some filler wads.

[CraigThompson]

I used to use cards as filler now I use plain old little red beans you buy at the grocery store and a lot cheaper . And they’re never out of stock .

[Pete Lester]

From what I have read IMR Red will produce similar velocities and pressure as Red Dot with same number of grains. IMR Red is more dense than Red Dot and a smaller bushing must be used to deliver 19 grains of it than you would use for 19 grains of Red Dot.

The Hornady Versalite wads can be problematic and I am not quite sure why. It seems to me they don't provide an adequate gas seal with light loads and they produce off sounding weak loads.

[Stephen Hodges]

Pete, I read just the other day that IMR Red has been discontinued. I was looking for it to replace the Winchester AA Lite that I have used for years but unfortunately has also been discontinued. It is bad enough that powder in general is scarse, but worse when they do not make it any more.

[Pete Lester]

Pete, I read just the other day that IMR Red has been discontinued. I was looking for it to replace the Winchester AA Lite that I have used for years but unfortunately has also been discontinued. It is bad enough that powder in general is scarse, but worse when they do not make it any more.

I had read IMR Red was discontinued as well. It seems it has been added to a growing list of powders no longer produced, PB, 800-X, 7625 etc. etc. It is my observation powder is currently the most difficult component to obtain. Sometimes a bottle of discontinued powder will show up somewhere. Last month I found some bottles of 800-x at the old price in the low 20's for a small bottle at Shooters Outpost. Unfortunately they limited sales to one bottle of any powder per customer.

[CraigThompson]

Pete, I read just the other day that IMR Red has been discontinued. I was looking for it to replace the Winchester AA Lite that I have used for years but unfortunately has also been discontinued. It is bad enough that powder in general is scarse, but worse when they do not make it any more.

If I’m not mistaken the IMR Blue’s been discontinued for a bit as well . Also the stuff IMR was supposedly making to compete with Unique .

[charlie cleveland]

was lots of powder on gunbroker but it was sky high....charlie

[Frank Cronin]

Sad to hear about 800X. People disliked 800X because it metered terribly and powder flakes were the size of potato chips. Due to this it was always available on the shelf. This is a great pistol powder with good velocity and low standard deviation numbers dispensed with my RCBS Chargemaster. Used it for 20 gauge too .

[Ben Safryn]

From what I have read IMR Red will produce similar velocities and pressure as Red Dot with same number of grains. IMR Red is more dense than Red Dot and a smaller bushing must be used to deliver 19 grains of it than you would use for 19 grains of Red Dot.

Thanks Pete! Now….how daring do I want to be trying a Red Dot recipe with IMR Red? Wonder if Blue Dot can be swapped for IMR Blue?

[Mills Morrison]

It seems this is a bad time to be shooting and looking for ammo period. Looking forward to this passing

[CraigThompson]

Thanks Pete! Now….how daring do I want to be trying a Red Dot recipe with IMR Red? Wonder if Blue Dot can be swapped for IMR Blue?

I load 18.6 grains of RD with 1 1/8 ounce shot in a SP-10 and of course with enough red beans to fill in . I load that in REM and Cheddite hulls . That’s a powder puff load so personally for myself I wouldn’t be afraid to try whatever bushing I’m using for RD with the IMR Red .

[Ben Safryn]

I load 18.6 grains of RD with 1 1/8 ounce shot in a SP-10 and of course with enough red beans to fill in . I load that in REM and Cheddite hulls . That’s a powder puff load so personally for myself I wouldn’t be afraid to try whatever bushing I’m using for RD with the IMR Red .

Thanks! Is this a 2 7/8” load? My Lifter has 2 5/8” chambers, if this is a powder puff load in 2 7/8” would it still be a powder puff load in 2 5/8”? And do you know the PSI for your load? I didn’t see any red dot loads in the spreadsheet that use less than 20 or 21 grains of powder.

I am trying to find a 1 1/8oz or 1oz load to use with some of the powder, cheddite hulls and versalite (SP10 equiv?) components I have. I can use beans or punch my own cardboard for filler too.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Category/n-jxzHf/1877-Parker-Lifter/i-rr9gJhZ/0/eb57b5c4/XL/IMG_1397-XL.jpg (https://fishrising.smugmug.com/Category/n-jxzHf/1877-Parker-Lifter/i-rr9gJhZ/A)

https://photos.smugmug.com/Category/n-jxzHf/1877-Parker-Lifter/i-DPWFTQd/0/b5f481bb/XL/IMG_1382-XL.jpg (https://fishrising.smugmug.com/Category/n-jxzHf/1877-Parker-Lifter/i-DPWFTQd/A)

[CraigThompson]

Thanks! Is this a 2 7/8” load? My Lifter has 2 5/8” chambers, if this is a powder puff load in 2 7/8” would it still be a powder puff load in 2 5/8”? And do you know the PSI for your load? I didn’t see any red dot loads in the spreadsheet that use less than 20 or 21 grains of powder.

I am trying to find a 1 1/8oz or 1oz load to use with some of the powder, cheddite hulls and versalite (SP10 equiv?) components I have. I can use beans or punch my own cardboard for filler too.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Category/n-jxzHf/1877-Parker-Lifter/i-rr9gJhZ/0/eb57b5c4/XL/IMG_1397-XL.jpg (https://fishrising.smugmug.com/Category/n-jxzHf/1877-Parker-Lifter/i-rr9gJhZ/A)

https://photos.smugmug.com/Category/n-jxzHf/1877-Parker-Lifter/i-DPWFTQd/0/b5f481bb/XL/IMG_1382-XL.jpg (https://fishrising.smugmug.com/Category/n-jxzHf/1877-Parker-Lifter/i-DPWFTQd/A)

That’s a powder puff load in a 12 gauge . Yes I only load 2 7/8” .

[Arthur Shaffer]

That RedDot/1-1/8oz load is pretty much the standard extra light 10 ga load. I use it. One thing that always concerned me is the use of things like red beans, rice etc as filler. I have never seen any numbers where these loads were tested with and without the natural fillers. Looking at the available data, even 1/8 ozof shot can have a not insignificant effect on pressure. If you weigh the amount of red beans/ for instance, it takes to fill the hull, it may have a significant impact. Unlike a light cork cushion wad, the beans actually have a lot of space which the shot occupies, so it takes more than you would guess to really fill the shell. I don't remember the numbers, but I loaded a hull normally and added enough beans mixed with the shot to get the proper length and the combined weight of the beans sdplus shot surprised me. Be nice if someone loading these would have them pressured tested against a shell with a cushion wad filler and a simple shorter shell with the base load.

[Pete Lester]

Thanks Pete! Now….how daring do I want to be trying a Red Dot recipe with IMR Red? Wonder if Blue Dot can be swapped for IMR Blue?

Comparing 1 1/8 ounce 12ga loads with a Federal Gold Medal hull 19 + or - grains of Red Dot and IMR Red produce very similar pressures from what I see in the Hodgdon and Alliant online manuals. Both were around 10,000 psi.

The larger the gauge the lower the pressure. A 19 grain Red Dot loading was tested by member here and the pressure was about 6700 psi. I would expect similar pressure from 19 grain IMR Red.

If your concerned have the load tested. Personally I would shoot a 1 1/8 ounce 19 grain IMR Red loading, my tens have rather stout barrels and I am long since past believing composite barrels could blow up with "normal" loads. Good luck.

[charlie cleveland]

I too am way past the don't shoot in the Damascus or twist barrel stage....I have more guns with composite barrels than steel ones....charlie

[Keith Doty]

I've been loading Longshot in the short 10 with good success. 30 gr. under an SP-10 wad. Had some tested using a 16 ga. fiber wad as filler and an OSC, 1 1/4 #8, 1225 fps and under 6K pressure.

[Keith Doty]

Dug these out, waiting on some others to be tested. Longshot because I have some! Shooting these in an EH Damascus 30".

[Ben Safryn]

Now….if I only had some longshot.

Loaded up the following to hopefully try today:

(A) 20.7gn Universal, 1oz #8, cheddite 2 5/8”, cheddite primer, versalite wad (SP-10 compatible?), with a cheerio or two, roll crimped

(B) 19gn IMR Red, 1 1/8oz #8, cheddite 2 5/8”, cheddite primer, versalite wad (SP-10 compatible?), with 2 cheerios, roll crimped

https://photos.smugmug.com/Category/n-jxzHf/1877-Parker-Lifter/i-cCgStLz/0/9fd3e180/XL/IMG_1406-XL.jpg (https://fishrising.smugmug.com/Category/n-jxzHf/1877-Parker-Lifter/i-cCgStLz/A)

[Ben Safryn]

So…20.7gn universal 1oz loads cause flames to come out of my barrels and the shot went maybe 10yds, and even left some unburnt powder in my barrels (see pic below).

The 19gn 1 1/8oz loads felt nice and soft and broke clays from the 16yd trap line.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Category/n-jxzHf/1877-Parker-Lifter/i-ZXCCKLH/0/ec12d013/XL/IMG_1413-XL.jpg (https://fishrising.smugmug.com/Category/n-jxzHf/1877-Parker-Lifter/i-ZXCCKLH/A)

[charlie cleveland]

your wadding never sealed good....charlie

[Arthur Shaffer]

Dug these out, waiting on some others to be tested. Longshot because I have some! Shooting these in an EH Damascus 30".

I just got a big supply of longshot. I'll have to try these. Two of my three guns (lifters) have 9 gauge barrels. These may be too low for them.

[Keith Doty]

BPI has 8 and 9 ga. nitro cards if you need'em.

[Keith Doty]

Nice crimps. Which tool, hand or drill press?

[Ben Safryn]

Nice crimps. Which tool, hand or drill press?

Thanks, I used a cordless drill

[Keith Doty]

Guess I phrased my question poorly. I was interested in hand or drill press but also whose crimp tool you used.

[Ben Safryn]

Guess I phrased my question poorly. I was interested in hand or drill press but also whose crimp tool you used.

Used a cordless drill and Precision Reloading’s four-pin roll crimp tool and also their crimp base and jaws.

[CraigThompson]

Guess I phrased my question poorly. I was interested in hand or drill press but also whose crimp tool you used.

I’ve got roll crimp tools for the 8,10,12 and 16 , they all came from BOI or Precision Reloading . I only use them in a table top Craftsman drill press . Not saying hand drill won’t be okay but I think I’ll do a better job with a drill press .

[CraigThompson]

Now….if I only had some longshot.

Loaded up the following to hopefully try today:

(A) 20.7gn Universal, 1oz #8, cheddite 2 5/8”, cheddite primer, versalite wad (SP-10 compatible?), with a cheerio or two, roll crimped

(B) 19gn IMR Red, 1 1/8oz #8, cheddite 2 5/8”, cheddite primer, versalite wad (SP-10 compatible?), with 2 cheerios, roll crimped

https://photos.smugmug.com/Category/n-jxzHf/1877-Parker-Lifter/i-cCgStLz/0/9fd3e180/XL/IMG_1406-XL.jpg (https://fishrising.smugmug.com/Category/n-jxzHf/1877-Parker-Lifter/i-cCgStLz/A)

I purchased 8 pounds of Longshot a few months ago in anticipation of using it when I ran out of preferred powders in some others . Since then I picked up more of my preference powders and let a friend have the Longshot .

[CraigThompson]

That RedDot/1-1/8oz load is pretty much the standard extra light 10 ga load. I use it. One thing that always concerned me is the use of things like red beans, rice etc as filler. I have never seen any numbers where these loads were tested with and without the natural fillers. Looking at the available data, even 1/8 ozof shot can have a not insignificant effect on pressure. If you weigh the amount of red beans/ for instance, it takes to fill the hull, it may have a significant impact. Unlike a light cork cushion wad, the beans actually have a lot of space which the shot occupies, so it takes more than you would guess to really fill the shell. I don't remember the numbers, but I loaded a hull normally and added enough beans mixed with the shot to get the proper length and the combined weight of the beans sdplus shot surprised me. Be nice if someone loading these would have them pressured tested against a shell with a cushion wad filler and a simple shorter shell with the base load.

You may be quite correct in your assumption . But I’ve had no issue in over ten years of loading this stuff with various fillers . What you Need to do I would think is weigh the cards you’d normally use vs whatever other thing you choose for displacement . While I say I’ve had no issue it only takes once , I may blow one up tommorrow with the same load and no longer be of the living but I seriously DOUBT IT :bigbye:

[Keith Doty]

Looks like Midway has Longshot and a few other powders in stock this morning.

[CraigThompson]

Looks like Midway has Longshot and a few other powders in stock this morning.

SR7625 is “THE” 10 gauge 2 7/8” powder . Unique and Universal Clays can be pressed into use for decent 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 ounce loads . And of course Red Dot for 1 1/8 ounce loads .

[Keith Doty]

SR7625 is “THE” 10 gauge 2 7/8” powder . Unique and Universal Clays can be pressed into use for decent 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 ounce loads . And of course Red Dot for 1 1/8 ounce loads .

What kind of pressures does the SR7625 generate in 1 1/4 oz. loads?

[Pete Lester]

SR7625 is “THE” 10 gauge 2 7/8” powder . Unique and Universal Clays can be pressed into use for decent 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 ounce loads . And of course Red Dot for 1 1/8 ounce loads .

IMR SR7625 was discontinued at least 5 years ago.

[CraigThompson]

IMR SR7625 was discontinued at least 5 years ago.

Sure was and I bought all I could get my hands on hence my reference to using Unique and Universal Clays . I’ve still got close to 16 pounds of SR7625 .

[CraigThompson]

What kind of pressures does the SR7625 generate in 1 1/4 oz. loads?

I dunno I got the load from a Ross Seyfried article in Handloader about twenty years ago .