Anyone loading bismuth?

[Milton C Starr]

So I been playing with a little bit of bismuth I pulled from a few RST loads which was painful as they were $3.50 a pop. They pattern so well though I was curious how they were loaded and what the quality of bismuth looked like. I measured a powder charge of about 29gr-30grs these are 1 1/4oz at 1250fps according to the box. The powder is the same shape and size as Bluedot but alot darker. I think this bismuth is perhaps from rotometals as you can see sprue marks on it from casting and I read rotometals casts their bismuth shot #2 and larger. It looks almost identical to nickel plated lead shot a slightly different hue to it though. I decided to plier test them since modern bismuth shot should be alloyed to alleviate the problems it had in the past. Its quite interesting how it "fragments" it basically breaks up into 3 equally sized jagged pieces doesn't turn into dust like I have heard. If you have seen any of the solid copper hollow points sold for self defense where the nose breaks up into 3 jagged shards essentially like that. Now I have read some hunters like this about bismuth as it rips through the inside of the bird and kills quicker I have seen it compared to how blindside shot works.

Oh yeah I weighed the pellets as well compared to the same size lead pellet, I got 4.9-5grs with #2 lead and 4.7grs with a #2 bismuth. According to a muzzle energy calculator at a modest 1150fps this would be 15 ft lbs of muzzle energy for the lead and 14ftlbs for the bismuth. The RST loads look to be loaded with a SP-10 wad.

From what I could roughly estimate it would cost me around $2.40 per shell to load bismuth if I had bought tungsten matrix recently when it was on a closeout sale for $10/lb it would be around $1.80 per shell. I would still probably keep some RST loads on hand since my NH grade seems to prefer them over anything I have yet handloaded :rotf: .

[Erich Bretschneider]

I've been shooting bismuth and ITX for a number of years. ITX I load 7/8 oz in my 2.5" 12ga and 1 oz of Bismuth 5's in the same. These are my main waterfowl loads but work well in non-tax upland areas. High volume on doves I keep little CZ Bobwhite 20ga around to shoot steel.

[CraigThompson]

I load Bismuth for the 10 1 1/4 , for the 12 1 1/8 , for the 16 1 , far the 20 7/8 and even some for the 28 . I’ve only so far killed anything with it in the 10 and 20 . I keep sizes 1 , 2 and 4 on hand oh yeah and I got a bag of 4.5 recently but haven’t loaded any so far .

[Milton C Starr]

I was looking for some information on loading tungsten matrix without a shotcup in theory it should be fine but couldnt find anything concrete. I know bismuth will work without one, I plan on trying some more bismuth down the road since it can be bought in small 1lb bags to try. I read boss will sell their copper plated bismuth as loose shot if you call them so that might be worth checking into as well.

A few reasons I am looking at bismuth is I would like some versatile loads I could use for different game and my 10 gauge patterns it pretty good. So probably I will order some #2 bismuth and I see BPI has nickel plated 5s back in stock id like to try out as well. I also want to try ordering some paper 8 gauge cases but the shipping for 10 hulls is $78 ouch. I picked up a digital measuring wheel yesterday so next time I go to the range I can get a accurate 30-40 yard distance.

[Keith Doty]

Milton, I load bismuth in 10, 12, and 16. #5 is my choice, primarily for ducks. Way better than steel, doesn't damage vintage guns, and kills'em like the lead of my youth! Those 40 to 50 yard shots really make a difference on big ducks, steel vs. bismuth. 1200 FPS is my goal for all with as little pressure as I can get. I'm sure I've paid for at least one new outboard motor testing with Precision but money well spent.
Rotometals has consistently been the best source.

[CraigThompson]

Milton, I load bismuth in 10, 12, and 16. #5 is my choice, primarily for ducks. Way better than steel, doesn't damage vintage guns, and kills'em like the lead of my youth! Those 40 to 50 yard shots really make a difference on big ducks, steel vs. bismuth. 1200 FPS is my goal for all with as little pressure as I can get. I'm sure I've paid for at least one new outboard motor testing with Precision but money well spent.
Rotometals has consistently been the best source.

Never gotten any from Roto . First I got was #1 from Precision Reloading also the most expensive . I’ve since bought #2 , #4 and #4.5 from BPI . I am however considering a bag of #5 and a bag of #6 from Midway . . Seems to me what I got from Precision was 6.6 pounds and I believe the BPI was the same amount and what Midway has is five pounds . Price on this stuff seems to have down a bit , the first bag was $200 plus the second two were if memory serves about $125 a bag and these slightly smaller from Midway are $99.99 .

[Milton C Starr]

Milton, I load bismuth in 10, 12, and 16. #5 is my choice, primarily for ducks. Way better than steel, doesn't damage vintage guns, and kills'em like the lead of my youth! Those 40 to 50 yard shots really make a difference on big ducks, steel vs. bismuth. 1200 FPS is my goal for all with as little pressure as I can get. I'm sure I've paid for at least one new outboard motor testing with Precision but money well spent.
Rotometals has consistently been the best source.

We cant really use outboards here anymore so now its either run a go-devil or prepare to get a arm workout and some paddles. I assume by precision you mean Precision Reloading? I was wondering when they test shells for you if they send back the empties? Eventually id like to get some brass shells tested but they are too expensive not to get them back.

[Milton C Starr]

Never gotten any from Roto . First I got was #1 from Precision Reloading also the most expensive . I’ve since bought #2 , #4 and #4.5 from BPI . I am however considering a bag of #5 and a bag of #6 from Midway . . Seems to me what I got from Precision was 6.6 pounds and I believe the BPI was the same amount and what Midway has is five pounds . Price on this stuff seems to have down a bit , the first bag was $200 plus the second two were if memory serves about $125 a bag and these slightly smaller from Midway are $99.99 .

Craig a few weeks ago I found a online store that was having a closeout sale on tungsten matrix 20 gauge loads for 500rd cases for $350 which I added up was 35lbs of TM or $10/lb. At normal prices though I dont see TM being worth 2-3x the cost of bismuth.

Im trying to consolidate some of my reloading needs so I dont have 10 bags of different shot sizes/types. I dont really do enough high volume shooting at the moment for it to add up. Although if I keep shooting 25rd boxes of 8 gauge ammo during range trips that may change haha.

[Stan Hillis]

One and a quarter ounces of #4 bismuth at about 1200 fps is the duck killingest load I've used in a long time ........... since lead was outlawed, actually. Three years ago in AR I killed a six duck limit with six loads, with my HE SuperFox. It is bad medicine for big ducks.

That said, I'm anxious to try out some Nice Shot (TM) next season (and a few loads of TSS through a modern foah-ten, for woodies).

[Keith Doty]

We cant really use outboards here anymore so now its either run a go-devil or prepare to get a arm workout and some paddles. I assume by precision you mean Precision Reloading? I was wondering when they test shells for you if they send back the empties? Eventually id like to get some brass shells tested but they are too expensive not to get them back.

I have never requested the emptys back but I'd bet that if you sent a prepaid shipping label they'd return them. Drop a dime, call and ask would be my first thought. I'm with you on wanting the brass ones back!

[Milton C Starr]

I have never requested the emptys back but I'd bet that if you sent a prepaid shipping label they'd return them. Drop a dime, call and ask would be my first thought. I'm with you on wanting the brass ones back!

Thats the plan soon as I can afford the brass cases lol.

[Keith Doty]

Thats the plan soon as I can afford the brass cases lol.

Pick me up a doz while you're at it!

[Milton C Starr]

One and a quarter ounces of #4 bismuth at about 1200 fps is the duck killingest load I've used in a long time ........... since lead was outlawed, actually. Three years ago in AR I killed a six duck limit with six loads, with my HE SuperFox. It is bad medicine for big ducks.

That said, I'm anxious to try out some Nice Shot (TM) next season (and a few loads of TSS through a modern foah-ten, for woodies).

I may pickup a BPS 10 or Gold 10 this year so I can shoot off the shelf 10 ga ammo when I cant find reloading supplies. At no point in these past 10 years has 10 gauge 3.5" been hard to find like more popular gauges. As well I could reuse the spent hulls from those for reloading my short 10s.

[Milton C Starr]

Pick me up a doz while you're at it!

Looking at the 50 case order requirement I was thinking perhaps it would make more sense to try and do a group buy and split them I did that before but it was a order of 10,000 cases lol and it took more than a few of us to meet the quota.

[Stan Hillis]

If PR balks at returning your brass cases give Tom Armbrust a call. He has always done all my pressure testing, and has always been very accommodating.

[Milton C Starr]

If PR balks at returning your brass cases give Tom Armbrust a call. He has always done all my pressure testing, and has always been very accommodating.

PR says they dont test brass shells.

Hello,

Unfortunately we are unable to test brass shotshells, we would only be able to test paper or plastic hulls. Please let us know if you have any other questions or concerns.



Thank you,

John N.





Now you can have a pressure test rig built but it would cost somewhere around 3k well for the 8 gauge doing other gauges would be a bit cheaper. If I get around to ordering some brass Ill probably try and get up with Tom about testing them or he may already have data for brass shells.

[Erich Bretschneider]

Last time I stopped at Bucks Run they said they aren't going to deal with Nice Shot as there wasn't enough interest to keep an inventory.

ITX-10 and Bismuth

Manufrance Robust
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/435/gqwA0x.jpg

Husqvarna 51
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/4554/vLhYWI.jpg

[Keith Sirmans]

Nice! Was the manufrance made with the hidden gunsling stock?

[Erich Bretschneider]

Yes it was but the bottom 1/3 of the stock was broken and the shotgun was in rough shape. I sold the retractable sling for more than I paid for the shotgun and replaced the bottom part of the stock with a piece of walnut I had here.

[CraigThompson]

I may pickup a BPS 10 or Gold 10 this year so I can shoot off the shelf 10 ga ammo when I cant find reloading supplies. At no point in these past 10 years has 10 gauge 3.5" been hard to find like more popular gauges. As well I could reuse the spent hulls from those for reloading my short 10s.

Not trying to tell you what to do , but if you want a 10 3 1/2” just about anything to me feels better than a 10 gauge BPS . I had one for awhile , also a couple of Ithaca MAG 10 semi’s and a Remington SP-10 as well as shooting a friends Browning Gold 10 quite a bit . The Gold felt the best in the hands , the Ithaca’s were second and the SP-10 a very very close third .

[Milton C Starr]

Ive had a BPS 10 before is was a wood stock with 30" barrel I carried it to keep predators away from the quails flight pens it was effective to say the least haha. Who knows when they will make another batch of either the Gold 10s or BPS though. I may not buy another shotgun though as im starting to think theres not much to hunt around here with them.