Rib termination line - or lack of

[Dylan Rhodes]

A little bit of education needed here.

I was going through my safe and giving everything a nice wipe down the other day when I noticed that my VHE does not have a terminator on the rib at the muzzle end of the gun. It seems from my own research that this is rather peculiar, but I can't quite determine if that means anything more.

As I understand it this seems to be evidence of cut barrels in most cases, but the 28" barrels are uncut as evidence by the Mod/full choking in them.

Any commentary is appreciated

[Steve Huffman]

Have you checked your serial number with the serialization book just for the heck of it Parkers had some long chokes

[Garry L Gordon]

Although the a good rule of thumb, not having the rib matting end before the barrel ends is not always a sign the barrels are cut. I have two guns like this and the research letters verify their length...as do the chokes (and their lengths), and the appearance of keels.

[Dylan Rhodes]

Although the a good rule of thumb, not having the rib matting end before the barrel ends is not always a sign the barrels are cut. I have two guns like this and the research letters verify their length...as do the chokes (and their lengths), and the appearance of keels.

I believe Keels are present as well. Correct?

[Garry L Gordon]

I can't see the barrel ends all that well in your photo, but it looks like they are there. It is worth noting that Parker chokes can be quite long, sometimes measuring out 3+ inches, so barrels cut two inches can still exhibit some choke. If you know how long the taper is, that's another clue.

[Dylan Rhodes]

I can't see the barrel ends all that well in your photo, but it looks like they are there. It is worth noting that Parker chokes can be quite long, sometimes measuring out 3+ inches, so barrels cut two inches can still exhibit some choke. If you know how long the taper is, that's another clue.

Thanks I will look into it, I don't have the tools for that handy at the moment. It may not be a definitive clue but the balance of the gun is still precisely on the hinge pin.

I should have included in the original post that this gun is already an enigma, with the research letter stating 26" barrels but I came into possession of it with 28, for whatever the reason. I was mainly looking for knowledge regarding rib matting termination, and it seems I have found it.

thanks!

[Dean Romig]

There are plenty of examples of the rib not having a termination line but where the matting does not just run off the end of the rib but stops just short of it. The matting tool operator will have stopped the machine just before the end and each matting line ends in a point.

How about a closer high def picture of the end of the rib? I can’t get that kind of detail from your first picture.





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[Dylan Rhodes]

There are plenty of examples of the rib not having a termination line but where the matting does not just run off the end of the rib but stops just short of it. The matting tool operator will have stopped the machine just before the end and each matting line ends in a point.

How about a closer high def picture of the end of the rib? I can’t get that kind of detail from your first picture.





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Dean,

I will work on getting that, I just stepped away from my house on a business trip so it might take me some time.

Thanks,

[Bruce Hering]

I am going to ask a "stupid" question. Are the 28" barrels SN'ed to the frame ?

[Dylan Rhodes]

I am going to ask a "stupid" question. Are the 28" barrels SN'ed to the frame ?

Yes, but the research letter would suggest they are not original, or that the book was wrong. I have a separate expedition underway to obtain the original information from Von Lengerke & Detmold through Griffin & Howe to see if it was inventoried by them with the 28" barrels when it was received from Parker. Apparently that is a service they offer. Per research letter, they should be 26"....


Anyways, I was only really using the gun as a discussion prop. I was after some general knowledge as to if its possible that Parkers were made without a terminating line, and it seems the answer is yes per Gary. Dean also provided information I was unaware of. Debating if the terminating line is telling or not on this specific gun isn't worth much to me honestly since the letter already doesn't match its a total crapshoot. Probably I worded my post poorly.

[Dean Romig]

Simply as a point of discussion and to bring this to a conclusion for the rest of us, can you please post a sharper picture of the muzzle end of the rib?

Incidentally, the keels are definitely in place exactly as Parker Bros. did them. They look perfect. They are triangular pieces of steel beneath the top and bottom ribs to keep the ribs aligned as they were soldered in place.





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[Dylan Rhodes]

Dean,

Yes I will do that as soon as I am able.

[Bruce Day]

Parker barrel end rib terminations.

The miling machine was operator lifted from engagement . The amount of un milled rib remaining was dependent upon the operator . On a rare few , the operator ran the tool off the rib end before lifting. Also ,There are rare records of Parker factory cutting the barrel ends.

These are several examples of factory rib terminations. Any rib milled Parker without a milling termination line is highly suspect of having cut barrels . In the absence of production records to the contrary , other indicators such as keels and chokes may be sufficient to demonstrate original length.

[Dylan Rhodes]

Simply as a point of discussion and to bring this to a conclusion for the rest of us, can you please post a sharper picture of the muzzle end of the rib?

Incidentally, the keels are definitely in place exactly as Parker Bros. did them. They look perfect. They are triangular pieces of steel beneath the top and bottom ribs to keep the ribs aligned as they were soldered in place.





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Dean,

Sorry for the lengthy delay. In response to your request see the attached image.

[Steve Huffman]

Have you asked Chuck to check your serial number again this could simply be a case where the 6 should be a 8 .

[Dylan Rhodes]

Have you asked Chuck to check your serial number again this could simply be a case where the 6 should be a 8 .

I have not, but I find that unlikely considering the weight of the gun and the barrel length in the letter are both not matching. And it's by nearly a half pound. Griffin and Howe no longer employ the gentleman who used to do the digging through the records of V&L and have no current plans to renew that role. A Mystery it shall remain, which is fine. It's not an invincible, just your regular VHE


As a separate curiosity, is it possible to learn something about a set of barrels original length by comparing the weight today vs the weight noted on the water table?

[Steve Huffman]

No because the weight on the barrel flats is the unstruck or unfinished barrel weight.

[Dylan Rhodes]

Makes sense. Sorry for my lack of knowledge here, but what steps are performed on the barrel after they mark them?


We are way off topic now...

[Dave Noreen]

Some important questions haven't been asked. What is the serial number of the gun? Is the rib legend correct for the vintage of the gun? Conn. or CT, U.S.A.? Are the markings on the barrel flats commensurate with the vintage of the gun? WK in an oval? JG in an oval? PARKER BROS. OVERLOAD PROVED? The barrel steel marking? K or Kf? Letter in a circle? We need to see several more good pictures to know if those barrels are the ones that started life on that frame.

[Garry L Gordon]

Makes sense. Sorry for my lack of knowledge here, but what steps are performed on the barrel after they mark them?


We are way off topic now...

The barrels are "struck" and choke bored, both of which reduce weight. It is not uncommon for the weight differential between the finished barrels and the unstuck (stamped) barrel weight to be multiple ounces.

[Dylan Rhodes]

Some important questions haven't been asked. What is the serial number of the gun? Is the rib legend correct for the vintage of the gun? Conn. or CT, U.S.A.? Are the markings on the barrel flats commensurate with the vintage of the gun? WK in an oval? JG in an oval? PARKER BROS. OVERLOAD PROVED? The barrel steel marking? K or Kf? Letter in a circle? We need to see several more good pictures to know if those barrels are the ones that started life on that frame.

Dave, see attached image. Serial number matches on everything. Gun was ordered in 1917 and shipped in 1918. I really wasn't here to learn about the gun, but since we're talking about it now I will participate. I was using it as a prop for my rib termination discussion.


Please excuse my lathering of ren wax.

[Dave Noreen]

Everything looks period correct to me. Right in the range where we begin seeing ribs marked CT., U.S.A. but we continue to see CONN. to at least 3000 later.

[Dylan Rhodes]

Everything looks period correct to me. Right in the range where we begin seeing ribs marked CT., U.S.A. but we continue to see CONN. to at least 3000 later.

Thanks Dave,

That particular gun will forever be an enigma. But I've acquired the knowledge I came for about rib terminations and then some with this post. Apologies everyone for poorly wording the original post.