Would like opinion on value

[DennisKWilson]

I recently receive a Parkers Bros. Makers Meriden CT USA Trojan Steel 12 gauge hammerless side by side shotgun from an elderly family member that wants me to keep it safe after a recent break-in at their home. They also asked me to help them determine the value of the firearm. It was used for hunting in its early years but more recently has been prop up behind a closet door for many years. I would like opinions on its value from members on this site before I take it to get appraised. The serial number on all of the parts is 199859. Thank you in advance.

[John Knobelsdorf II]

What’s the length of the barrels of this time?

For valuation, the Blue Book of Firearms is a good source when you are telling an insurer what coverage you want. See also the on-line gun sales sites.

[DennisKWilson]

The barrel is 28 inches long.

[edgarspencer]

Your gun appears to be in relatively poor condition. I wouldn't put a value of more than $3-500 on it.

[Bill Murphy]

With the severe pitting on the barrels, I would not value it over $300. Cracking in the wood obvious at the top tang area, would devalue it even more.

[Dean Romig]

I would think it is more split than cracked.

And something happened to those barrels - the keels are missing and there are voids where they should be...

Okay, I see now - the barrels have been cut back from their original 30 inches.





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[DennisKWilson]

Thank you all for your opinions. The wood is solid everywhere with no cracks or splits anywhere. There is a groove on both sides of the stock which appears to be by design. I posted a couple more picture to provide clearer images of the stock. The stain is very worn as the gun was used in the past for hunting. Wasn't aware that barrels had been cut down so that's good to know.

So, given the lower than expected evaluations, would it be safe to have it cleaned and professionally restored? I have not priced restoration cost so don't know if it will increase the gun's value enough to offset the expense.

Thanks in advance again for any thoughts or guidance regarding my next move.

[Dean Romig]

Any money you put into restoration will never be recovered...





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[Bill Murphy]

Five hundred dollars in restoration on this gun will only get it to the $300 level, where it is now. The gun has been abused and neglected beyond repair.

[DennisKWilson]

Wow! I came to and joined this site because it has a reputation for knowledge on this brand. I suspect there are some true gun enthusiasts here that have expertise in accessing the value of Parker Bros merchandise; not as they would necessarily offer for it, but also what it is worth based on all things considered, like the age, condition, and functionality. So far, all comments I am hearing in these assessments are based solely on the cosmetic condition. This shotgun was made in 1922 so it is 100 years old and still functions with perfect reliability. I may be a novice but I tend to think those attributes should weigh in more than I am hearing here. The shotgun was purchased in 1922 to be a hunting tool to feed a family, not as an investment item to be put in a display case for future sale. The abuse comment is a bit harsh and without merit, but I do respect your opinion, and agree it may have been neglected as in left in a corner to age without care. Again, I am new to this so I do thank you all for your professional opinions.

[Jerry Harlow]

Don't be disheartened. If it is a relative's gun and you end up "keeping" it until after he is gone you could slowly make it more attractive to you. The wood could be refinished. Maybe do it yourself if handy. The head is splitting but it maybe can be glued back together after getting rid of the 100 years of oil. The metal could be cleaned up depending upon the pitting on the barrels; maybe reblue at a later time. Clean up the receiver, have the trigger guard nitre blued along with the triggers, and have a decent shooter that belonged to a family member. Fill the voids in the end of the barrels with solder. The low-ball estimates are based upon the cost to refinish to make it decent, and cut barrels can't be brought back but does not mean it can't still take game. Right now it is in the bottom range but I like challenges and it can be saved. I have brought back worse from the dead. But you can never have a restoration.

[Daniel Carter]

First off ALL Parker shotgun are''old''so that adds little to their value. This site seems to average two inquire's a month like yours and they have a common theme. That being ''i have this rare, very valuable treasure and what is this windfall worth''. When i have been asked a number of times what i am shooting and say Parker invariably the person says that must be worth a fortune. When told it is the most common grade and gauge they are dumbstruck to hear they can be had all day for a thousand dollars or less.

There are a very few guns that because of a combination of rarity and CONDITION are reported to sell for tens of thousands and they are the ones the general public reference when they hear Parker. They are few and far between and most are disappointed to learn that they do not have one
Please do not take what i say as any criticism of you, far from it and those who responded to you have given good advice for realistically any money put to restoration will not bring value.

[DennisKWilson]

Again, I'd like to thank all of you for your advice and comments. They are appreciated. I am not too disappointed as I had done some online research and saw similar shotguns from $300-$3000. I also saw on this website that ~33000 were made in ~27 years and that Trojan was the lower end made so anyone could afford a Parker. Other webpages and this one also, suggested I start here before deciding to do any cleaning or repairs to see if it was worth investing in restoration. I have heard exactly what I needed to make a reasonable decision. Bottom line is the gun is worth whatever someone is willing to pay. Thanks again for the candid responses. I do have one question... I have looked this stock up and down and all around and do not see any crack or splits in the wood anywhere. How do I locate (the head) where everyone is saying is beginning to split?

[Dean Romig]

I’ve taken and enlarged the 9th picture you posted. There is space between the top tang of the frame and the wood. It is pronounced on thevright side and it is actually considerably wider than the frame if you look closely on the right side. This indicates a split stock head.


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[Bill Murphy]

The split stock head should be repaired before shooting the gun to prevent further damage. There are threads on this forum showing the "staple" method of repairing this situation. Do a search for "successful stock head repair" to access an illustrated thread showing this repair.

[Jim Thynne]

Parker Shotguns are collectable shotguns. The purchasers are as finicky as those of us that also collect fine glass.They start out as perfect examples, and any variance from new detracts from the value.A fellow told me once it's not like picking out a prom date, it's like picking out a wife.








The sad part is that these guns have become investment pieces, and the value once again follows the guide of "100% new" and it depreciates from there!

[Brian Dudley]

The opinions expressed above are completely correct. When it comes to market value of a gun, the configuration of the gun and condition are what determines value. Your gun is a base grade gun which is very common and the condition is low. Pretty much operable with some repairs, but low. So, call it fair, not poor. The barrels are cut, which also hurts the value a lot. One, they look cut at the muzzle, and two, your serial number 199859 is listed in the book as a 30" gun. Further support that it has been cut back 2". Honestly, the gun is worth no more than $300-500 tops. Like others have said.

The points that you mention like it being made in 1922, and it being used as a tool by the family do not come into account much when it comes to market value. The age of the gun means nothing really. So, it is old. Every Parker Shotgun is. And the family attachment and memories and such are sentimental, which mean everything to the members of the family, but not much to anyone else. Sentimental value can be a major driver for people to spend money on things like restoration, and that is fine. If it were not for "Grandpas Shotgun" many restoration specialists would not get the work that they do. But when talking fair market value, it does not make sense to anyone else.

[Andrew Sacco]

Brian this should be a STICKY titled: What is My Gun Worth. EXCELLENT synopsis. It, or a variation of it, should be accessible by non members.

[Arthur Shaffer]

This would likely make a great old shooter. I have a lot of old guns, and I mean that literally. I in fact am a person that tends to gravitate toward, for a descriptive term, rejunevated guns. I like to take old guns and redo them to shoot and enjoy. I can tell you that you will seldom recover what you spend on them. I don't spend more on them than is economically viable or that suits my budget if the gun is something I really want. I have never in my life bought a gun because it was simply rare or valuable. I truly appreciate the workmanship and rarity of historic firearms, but if I'm not interested or they are unuseable they have no draw.

If a gun is really really rough but can be put right, and it is interesting to me, I will buy it and work on it for months to save it but not spend a lot of cash on it. If it has some significant attribute and I really want to own it, I will spend considerably more and do a lot of the work myself but never expect to profit from it in the short term. I have a not small rack of relatively pricey guns on which other people have had total professional restorations done for which I have paid several thousand per gun. In several cases I have recieved the paid reciepts for the restoration and they are often twice what I paid for the guns at auction. They often look more presentable than the high priced original but originality, condition and rarity set the value. With only 2 of the three, you are out of the serious collector market.

In the case of your gun, what people are saying is that the condition is such that it can likely be improved to make it useful again, but it can literally never be made excellent, even with a complete professional restoration. The barrels have been cutoff and left unfinished and the metal is pitted and corroded to the point that you would likely never be able to remove the surface imperfections to the point that it looks like a quality job without thinning the metal too much. The stock can be repaired but will still not be in a restored condition.

Since it is a family gun, the advice given above is the best I think. Have someone repair the muzzle. Boil or sonic clean the barrels to remove the corrosion and put on a rust arresting oil. Have the barrels inspected as to condition and safety before any of this. Have someone with experience repair the stock and refinish it. A lot of this can be done by you with help and/or advice. You will end up with a family gun in useable shape and a condition in which it probably spend most of it's active life. The value will still be it's current value plus what you spent on it.

[Bill Murphy]

Andy, woops, sorry, ArtS, your post made a lot of sense up to the last sentence. The amount spent on it will not be added to its present value. Its present value is about what it will be worth after much work is done on it. The damage done to it by previous owners will always be evident and detract from its value. That is not the case with all abused guns, but it is the case with this one.

[Andrew Sacco]

Andy, your post made a lot of sense up to the last sentence. The amount spent on it will not be added to its present value. Its present value is about what it will be worth after much work is done on it. The damage done to it by previous owners will always be evident and detract from its value. That is not the case with all abused guns, but it is the case with this one.

I'm Andy and I didn't say that. That's Art, and he said that. And I agree with you Bill, it won't add value.

[Arthur Shaffer]

I guess I would have to disagree with that. The cost to get the muzzle repaired should not be alot. Most everything could be done at no cost. Knowledgeable people on here volunteer to help people measure barrels every day. People with a little guidance learn torepair and refinish wood all the time. Thousands of people clean and rejuvenate metal if they work carefully and ask for help or direction, be it an old car, an old gun or an old toaster. The secret is to take your time, be commited and work at learning. If these things were done, I will gaurantee that someome would be willing to pay more than it is worth right now. Maybe not much more but more than the pittance in actual dollars you would be out of pocket, and the knowledge you gain would be priceless.

[Bill Murphy]

Sorry, Andy, I meant to address Art S.

[Andrew Sacco]

Sorry, Andy, I meant to address Art S.

No problem! I’d make it a chicken coop gun. If I didn’t have a chicken coop I’d build one around that gun.

[Joseph Sheerin]

Honestly, I think you got good, honest feedback.

What you decide to do with that, well that's up to you.

Family Heirlooms always hold a higher value to that family.

As a person who would consider buying the gun, I'd say the comments here are spot on.

There are piles and piles of 100+ year old shotguns laying around. What makes a gun valuable outside of sentimental value, is rarity and condition. Your gun is a VH, not rare, and honestly not in good condition, thereby provoking the comments made here.

It's a family heirloom, hang it on the wall as is, and don't worry about it's "value", as IMHO, that's one I'd never sell if it was my grandfather's.

[Bill Murphy]

I will give "us" a final comment. Some years ago, I was at an Ohio Gun Collectors show and spied a really nice Trojan on a table at $300. It was a beauty, but the barrels had been cut to 25". I bought it and took it home. With dozens of Parkers at home to shoot, I had no idea what I was going to do with it. I sold it to a very contented buyer for a bit more than I paid for it. $300 was more than a fair price for this very clean gun with no problems other than the cut barrels.

[DennisKWilson]

I read everyone's opinion here then took the gun to 2 local antique shops... both valued the shotgun at least $800 and one even offered to buy it. Insurance value $1550. Not sure what they know that this site's membership don't I decided to keep it and fix all of the things you guys recommended. Thanks again for you comments.

[Daniel Carter]

What they know that this site does not is to take the Blue Book of gun values as accurate without consideration of condition or current market conditions. The antique dealer is not necessarily a gun dealer and has to rely on information that can be in error.

[edgarspencer]

Antique shops? Seems to me if you take it to enough places farther off the category, you'll keep getting better values. Whatever makes you feel good.

[Arthur Shaffer]

What they know that this site does not is to take the Blue Book of gun values as accurate without consideration of condition or current market conditions. The antique dealer is not necessarily a gun dealer and has to rely on information that can be in error.

A few years ago I purchased at open auction a nice signed in plate Exhibition Poster painted by Picasso for $75 as a gift for my high school daughter. A couple of years later at a sale where we were selling, she had the poster appraised at the free appraisel booth for $750. We sold almost everything we had the first day and actually attended 2 outside auctions that night to restock. We sold all that the second day and were actually asked to leave by the show director because the other dealers were experiencing zero sales and complaining that we were "ruining the show".

The truth is we made a healthy profit and their results were typical of everything I ever experienced. They tend to hold merchandise at ridicupous prices for ever, and then clear their shops out at a quiet auction somewhere, where people buy it and repeat the process.

About the time I moved here, we were in a small antique shop downtown and they had an old Parker Lifter in really dirty and below average condition. It was priced at what now would be a reasonable amount for a pristine medium grade Parker. I believe I saw it there for at least 10 years.

I hung out in that world for several years and could only be amazed at their business model. They actually all beleved in their system and kept several auctioneers in business just trading their inventory back and forth.

[DennisKWilson]

Thanks again to all of the advice I got here. If I sound ungrateful, it is not intentional. I know you guys are the experts so believe me when I say I appreciate the advice. I know this is the place that knows more about Parkers than anywhere else I have seen on the internet. Since it is not worth much as it is in resale value, I think I will have it restored to look good enough to pass along to the next gen. It has more family history value than market value. If I ever need, I will definitely return here for your advice again. Thanks again.