Grade 6 Lifter

[Dean Weber]

This is a new gun to me. I have not yet gotten a letter. Some issues are present and the book is not clear...listing this gun as a 10 gauge when it is a 12. Listing it as damascus when it is laminated. However, it does show it was a 2 barrel set so maybe that explains the damascus. Thought I would share a neat gun show find.

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[Breck Gorman]

Love the Parker made in the USA laminated barrels and the gold ball grip. Gorgeous! Great find.

[edgarspencer]

That must be one of the first guns with the radius at water table/standing breach face. Beautiful.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Outstanding Dean, what are your plans for it? What are the other specs--barrel length, chokes, weight, etc. Wouldnt it be great to take a limit of big, old SD roosters with it.

[Dean Romig]

Beautiful gun!
What a rare and amazing find, at a gun show no less. That’s a Parker that should have been auctioned to realize it’s true potential. You’re a lucky man to find that one Dean!





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[Dean Weber]

Outstanding Dean, what are your plans for it? What are the other specs--barrel length, chokes, weight, etc. Wouldnt it be great to take a limit of big, old SD roosters with it.

Harold, plans? I went to a gun show, fell in love, probably paid too much for it and came home with it. Unsure if anybody has done the same……all kidding aside, I hope to do just as you suggested!

30 inch bbls, about M/M for choke. Bores measures where I would expect it. Weighs 7/8. Stock has a 2 7/8 drop and a 14 lop to a SSBP.

[Garry L Gordon]

Dean, what a find! I look forward to a photo with some prairie roosters posing with it next Fall.

[Randy G Roberts]

Wow, congrats on that beauty Dean. Leatherman makes a dandy strap on comb riser if that drop causes you any grief. It will not hurt the finish and is easy on and off. Good luck with that very nice Parker.

[Mills Morrison]

One of the most frustrating things as a collector is owning a two barrel set with one set missing. My 8 gauge has a fluid steel 10 gauge set out there somewhere

[Wayne Owens]

What's frustrating to me is not finding an all original beautiful A grade hammer gun at a local gun show. Congratulations! What a masterpiece.

[Arthur Shaffer]

Love the Parker made in the USA laminated barrels and the gold ball grip. Gorgeous! Great find.

Dean
You have another example of a Damascus graded gun with a set of Parker Laminated barrels. They all seem to be on graded lifters. Mr. Gorman is redoing mine right now (from a D3 grade 10 Gauge). Searching through the posts from the last several yearsI have located a surprising number marked that way, given the relatively few number reported as L grade guns. No way to prove it, but I have personally become convinced that Parker during this period, due either to corporate pride or marketing to try and establish the new barrels, considered them as Damascus barrels unique to them. The fact that all of them I have found posts about are higher grade lifters would fit into this scenario.

Does the grade stamp on the frame agree with the D grading? If so, the other set of barrels may well have been P Laminate too. I have never heard of that. If so, it would have likely been unique with both sets of barrels. It may well be anyway as the only grade 6 with those barrels.

[Chuck Bishop]

Dean, get a letter! Your questions will be answered. BTW, great gun!

[Mike Koneski]

Dean, beautiful gun!!!!! Congrats! Good thing you saved your pennies in Vegas!!

[Jay Oliver]

That is is a wonderful lifter! That is beautiful!

[charlie cleveland]

wow what a find....charlie

[Mike Poindexter]

I like the X's engraved on the forward half of the lock plate. Havent seen that before on such an early gun. Sort of presages the much later art deco engraving.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Wonderful gun! Hard to find one like that, maybe you need to get a lottery ticket! Gary

[John Davis]

Fabulous gun but the dogs are pointed in the wrong direction.

[Dean Weber]

Dean
You have another example of a Damascus graded gun with a set of Parker Laminated barrels. They all seem to be on graded lifters. Mr. Gorman is redoing mine right now (from a D3 grade 10 Gauge). Searching through the posts from the last several yearsI have located a surprising number marked that way, given the relatively few number reported as L grade guns. No way to prove it, but I have personally become convinced that Parker during this period, due either to corporate pride or marketing to try and establish the new barrels, considered them as Damascus barrels unique to them. The fact that all of them I have found posts about are higher grade lifters would fit into this scenario.

Does the grade stamp on the frame agree with the D grading? If so, the other set of barrels may well have been P Laminate too. I have never heard of that. If so, it would have likely been unique with both sets of barrels. It may well be anyway as the only grade 6 with those barrels.

I think this gun is too early to show the quality or grade on the water table. TPS page 110.

https://i.imgur.com/C1wkUXZ.jpg

[todd allen]

Dean, that is a beautiful lifter! I love the engraving!

[Dean Romig]

The right barrel flat is stamped with the grade. “All” Parkers of grade 3 and higher have the gradecstamped on the right barrel flat. This one has the 6 stamped about halfway down the flat right above the order number.

Depending on the barrel length this gun is among the 20 in 12 gauge with Damascus Steel barrels. None (ZERO) at all are shown with Laminated Steel barrels, making this gun as possibly unique.





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[Stan Hoover]

Congratulations on the nice find, I'm jealous.

One question, what kind of gun show must one attend to find a gun such as this beauty, I'm assuming this would only be found at a larger more prominent antique arms show?

I haven't been to any local gun shows recently because they're just not worth going to, nothing even close to a great gun like this one could be found.

Nice gun!

[Dean Weber]

Congratulations on the nice find, I'm jealous.

One question, what kind of gun show must one attend to find a gun such as this beauty, I'm assuming this would only be found at a larger more prominent antique arms show?

I haven't been to any local gun shows recently because they're just not worth going to, nothing even close to a great gun like this one could be found.

Nice gun!

Stan, this particular show is fairly big for our part of the country. It has over a 1,000 tables. RIA, Morphy, and Poulin all have reps/tables at this show. That said, it still has a smaller feel. Interesting thing about this gun is I found it just a few tables away from the Morphy table. Don’t think they were set up yet…..sleeping in I guess.

[Dean Romig]

The early bird… you know the rest.





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[todd allen]

Some issues are present and the book is not clear...
Does this mean you will be doing some repair, or restoration work?
Not meaning to weigh in on either direction, but if this gun were to be properly restored, it would be a screamer!
Not that there is anything wrong with how it looks now, just curious.

[Dean Weber]

Does this mean you will be doing some repair, or restoration work?
Not meaning to weigh in on either direction, but if this gun were to be properly restored, it would be a screamer!
Not that there is anything wrong with how it looks now, just curious.

Todd,
The issues I mentioned are fairly small considering the overall picture. Hammer screws appear to be wrong and one is damaged anyway. Then, the stock comb nose was chipped off at one time and somewhat crudely glued on. But other than that, it is just honest wear with good bores and mechanically sound/appropriate. Based on these issues, I am inclined to find appropriate screws and leave the rest. I do wish the barrels showed more pattern as they are beautiful under the fore end. I will await a letter, complete my research and take it hunting....

[Stan Hoover]

Thanks for reply Dean,

Good job on finding it early, enjoy using it, game or targets, you’ll be using a great gun!

Stan Hoover

[Garry L Gordon]

So nice to see a gun like this go to someone who will honor it with use and care.

[Arthur Shaffer]

I think this gun is too early to show the quality or grade on the water table. TPS page 110.

https://i.imgur.com/C1wkUXZ.jpg

Dean

I wasn't questioning the grade. It is obviously a grade 6. However, the Serialization book shows it as a D6, which I suspect is correct as to the official records. I own 18479 which is a 10 gauge listed as a D3 (and lettered as such). However it has Parker Laminate barrels like yours, also not marked D on the action. It was sold as a Damascus gun, not a Laminated gun. I have seen this reported on a number of higher graded Parkers. For whatever reason, I believe that during this period around 1878 to 1880, Parker was selling their made in house laminate barrels on higher grade Damascus guns with no differentiation between the two. My guess was that it was due to corporate pride or marketing. Given the very few higher grade lifters made, I have seen too many references to this situation to make it seem like an anomoly. I had never really tried to find out, but does anyone know of an actual factory L graded gun in this period that has Parker laminated barrels?

[David Noble]

Dean, I imagine you know, but wanted to bring it to your attention just in case.
Your Grade 6 hammer gun is featured on the back cover of the
Parker Gun Identification and Serialization book and mentioned by serial number on the Credits page of that book.


Here you go. :cheers:

[Jay Oliver]

I was looking up something in Serialization book yesterday and when I saw the lifter on the back I thought it looked like the one in this thread(but didn't think it was the same one). That is too cool!

All the better you found at a local gun show. That is a Parker to be proud of and you can always describe it as the "Parker featured on the back of the Serialization book" which just sounds like it would be fun to say...

Edit: Now that I think about it, I was going to check to see if was the same gun, but the check/hook barrels below it through me off and I thought it was a later gun, that doesn't make sense now, given the offset firing pins on this lifter, those are just a different set of barrels

[Dean Weber]

Details from the letter Chuck provided.

Parker shotgun, serial number 13731, was ordered by E.S. Chapin of W. 48th St. NY on November 18, 1878 and shipped on April 29, 1879. According to Parker Bros. Order Book No. 4, it was a $300 Dollar Grade, Lifter Action Hammer Gun, 10-gauge. It featured Damascus steel barrels with a length of 30 inches. Also ordered were a pair of 12/30” Laminated steel barrels at a price of $100.00. The stock configuration was a pistol grip. The requested weight was 8 ½ to 9 pounds. Special instructions were straight rib, finest stock can get, and target 180. Also ordered was 1 leather case. The order was placed by C.E.P.

The price was $300.00 plus $100 for extra barrels plus $12.00 for leather case.

According to Parker Bros. Order Book No. 33, the gun was returned on January 20, 1893 by A.H. Smith of Stamford, CT to fit new frame and stock. The price was $30.00.

[Dean Romig]

Great provenance, and it answeres many questions. Would love to have seen the original “finest can get” stock though.





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[Arthur Shaffer]

Details from the letter Chuck provided.

Parker shotgun, serial number 13731, was ordered by E.S. Chapin of W. 48th St. NY on November 18, 1878 and shipped on April 29, 1879. According to Parker Bros. Order Book No. 4, it was a $300 Dollar Grade, Lifter Action Hammer Gun, 10-gauge. It featured Damascus steel barrels with a length of 30 inches. Also ordered were a pair of 12/30” Laminated steel barrels at a price of $100.00. The stock configuration was a pistol grip. The requested weight was 8 ½ to 9 pounds. Special instructions were straight rib, finest stock can get, and target 180. Also ordered was 1 leather case. The order was placed by C.E.P.

The price was $300.00 plus $100 for extra barrels plus $12.00 for leather case.

According to Parker Bros. Order Book No. 33, the gun was returned on January 20, 1893 by A.H. Smith of Stamford, CT to fit new frame and stock. The price was $30.00.

That clears up the barrel/grade question.
"....to fit new frame and stock. The price is $30. ..."

That's quite a repair and quite a price! Makes you wonder if there is another one with Damascus barrels and a finest stock out there somewhere.

[Dean Romig]

That clears up the barrel/grade question.
"....to fit new frame and stock. The price is $30. ..."


I don't see what that clears up... We've seen Parker-made Laminated Steel barrels on Grades 1 through 6... but far fewer in Grades 5 and 6, but they do exist.





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[Arthur Shaffer]

I don't see what that clears up... We've seen Parker-made Laminated Steel barrels on Grades 1 through 6... but far fewer in Grades 5 and 6, but they do exist.





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Dean
Maybe your previous response that the letter cleared up a lot of questions is more accurate. It answers the question asto haow this Damascus gun ended up with a set of 12 gauge Parker laminate barrels. We know there are multiple examples of higher grade Damascus guns fitted with Parrker laminate barrels. What we don't know is why this would be true. I believe that if someone during that period ordered a graded damascus gun and they installed twist barrels instead, there would have been a problem.

One thing I do find really interesting is that 10 years later, a different owner ordered a new stock and frame for the gun and it was built for $30. I have a hard time believing that a grade 6 frame and stock was made and sold for that price. That's 1/2 of a $300 grade shotgun for $30.

It is possible that there was some damage or mechanical failure amd this was a form of low cost warranty settlement with the Laminate barrels being the operable or favorite set. It is possible the original stock and action were lost and only the barrels remained. Another very likely scenario, however, is that the original 12 gauge barrels had their own forend due to being a different gauge. Either the person who owned the original gun at that point or a person who had obtained the original 10 gauge barrels and forend may have ordered a new action and stock and ended up with a second complete gun. This may have been a plain action which would explain the pricing.

It is entirely possible that there is a mystery 10 gauge damascus floating around out there with the same serial number if the new frame was sold as a replacement.

[Dean Romig]

Whereas this gun is one of the first with the radiused water table / breech face, it can easily be argued that the gun may have originally had a frame with the 87 degree, or 93 degree (depending on which side you’re measuring from) angle at that juncture, and it was returned because it had cracked, it seems by charging only $30 Parker showed good faith and was willing to accept responsibility, or at least some of it (pro-rated?)






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[Chuck Bishop]

I don't usually show an image from the order books but in this case I wanted to show the wording in the order book entry. The order was placed in 1893. It's not uncommon to see marks obscuring words or numbers but in this case you can clearly see the word was "New".

[Dean Romig]

Further Art, I don’t think there were any mistakes made in fitting the Parker-made Laminated Steel barrels at all. The mistake, IMO, was in the lack of communication between departments and to the scribes who recorded that info into the books. As I recall, I have never seen a Parker Lifter with Parker-made Laminated Steel barrels whose rib was marked Damascus Steel. If anyone has pictures of such a gun I would love to see it.
There are (and likely were) aficionados of Parker guns who believe Damascus is “prettier” than Laminated Steel and there are/were those who think Laminated Steel is prettier.

We could discuss the “maybe’s” forever but without the actual documentation these are all just opinions… mine included. But more than anything, we must remain open-minded.





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[Dean Weber]

Appreciate all the forensic work here. It is fortunate we have a good bit of information to surmise all the variables. The empirical evidence is that the gun was ordered with 12 gauge, Laminated barrels. Therefore it is not a mistake, but rather a function of the order of the 2 barrels being documented in the order. Parker very well could have documented it as a 12 gauge with an extra set of 10 gauge barrels. Maybe they always list the higher gauge first.

I find it a bit humorous that the original order book details special instruction details to the level of "finest can get". Yet.....the later order book just says "slap a new frame and stock on it". I suspect there were more instructions to Parker as to what the customer wanted besides what Chuck is able to see in the subsequent order. Just a curiosity.

I believe the scenario Dean Romig has suggested as very plausible. Maybe I should check to see if there is a note in the leather case.............

[Randy G Roberts]

Maybe I should check to see if there is a note in the leather case.............

Annnnnnnnnnnnd you have the case that was mentioned in the letter Dean ? Can we, well me, please see a picture of this case. This just keeps getting better :corn:

[Dean H Hanson]

Mr. Romig, Mr Roberts, Mr Bishop, Mr. Hoover... et al... please appreciate. These responses, they are the finest we have.

[Stan Hoover]

Thought this thread was worth resurrecting Dean,

Are we still waiting on pics of this fine Parker with some roosters??

Beautiful Gun by the way:bowdown:

[Dean Romig]

Wow, congrats on that beauty Dean. Leatherman makes a dandy strap on comb riser if that drop causes you any grief. It will not hurt the finish and is easy on and off. Good luck with that very nice Parker.

Those original dimensions are perfect for me.





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[Dean Weber]

Stan,
I thought I posted rooster pics on another thread. However, I see my pictures are gone from this thread anyway so here are some to keep you interested!!

[Dean Romig]

Absolutely stunning!!!

I'm sure you'll let me know when you're ready to mve it along....:bowdown:





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[Stan Hoover]

Dean,
please forgive me if I made you post them twice, but that fine Parker is well worth it.

That is just absolutely beautiful!!

Only my humble opinion, but these hammer guns, all of them but more specifically the under lifters are the most beautiful examples the fine men in Meriden produced!

Oh yeah, looks like I'm second in line now to Dean, but please don't forget me:coffee:

[Randy G Roberts]

Beautiful gun Mr. Weber. I will gladly assume the position of a very sincere 3rd in line. :rotf:

[Garry L Gordon]

Ooops! I drooled on my phone!

[James Palmer]

This is another A grade lifter 2 barrel set 32&28 both 10ga ordered with original case.

I thought others would enjoy

[Garry L Gordon]

James, consider me “enjoyed!” Thanks for sharing.

[Stan Hoover]

That is just over the top James, thanks for sharing again.

PS. Would love to see more pictures of the engraving when your time allows.

Stan