DHE double trap

[Brett Souder]

I am a little puzzled by this one and I am looking for opinions from Everyone. This gun is a DHE, 32", Vent rib, Beaver tail, Single trigger, Monte Carlo stocked gun.
Serial number is 24230x. I believe the case colors, finish on the stock and barrels to be original. I have no idea what the Barrel flat markings represent. Let me know your thoughts.
Thanks, Brett

[Dean Romig]

Can you show us both sides of the stock please?





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[Brett Souder]

A few more photos

[Brett Souder]

Dean, I will get a photo of the other side tomorrow.

[Brett Souder]

It is hard to see the letters RKS on the corner of the barrel flat by the ejector in my photo.
-Brett

[Brett Souder]

Side of stock and but pad.
Could this have been a Larry Del Grego & Son built gun?

[Reggie Bishop]

My opinion is that Del Grego upgraded the gun. Does it letter? Nice looking gun.

[Brett Souder]

Can guns letter that are higher serial numbered than the serialization guide goes to?
-Brett

[Reggie Bishop]

I don't know, but you can go to the home page and click on research letters and enter the serial number and find out if records are available.

[John Davis]

I’d say definitely a Del Grego redo but probably not an upgrade. Probably restocked. What’s she choked?

[Brett Souder]

The chokes are improved modified and full with a drop in gauge.

[Dave Noreen]

Lot of strange things about that gun. No PARKER GUN WORKS, OVERLOAD PROVED stamps on the barrel flats. Doesn't have the grade gauge and chamber length on the left side of the lug that one would expect this late --

104083

This is my 16-gauge VHE with a date code of XJ (yellow arrows) --


104084

The barrels of the gun in question have a date code of XK X = December K = 1941

Also, as can be noted on my gun the serial number and choke marks are normally on the barrel flats on these very latest guns.

It also appears there was a repair code on the barrel flat, ?H3, but I can't read the first letter. H would be 1939 or 1961 neither of which make sense.

Here is a barrel flat a couple of digits lower with everything we would expect on a very late gun --

104085

with also a number of repair codes.

[Dean Romig]

Definitely Del Grego IMO
Nose of the comb is one clue.
Cyanide case colors is one clue.
Drop point shaped like Meriden style, not Ilion style is another clue.





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[Dean Romig]

And..... It has a Larry DelGrego & Son rubber recoil pad.





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[Brian Dudley]

Nothing about any of the finishes on that gun are original.

[Brett Souder]

I should have been more clear in my statement about believing the gun has original finishes. Is it possible that this late gun was assembled from parts by Larry Del Greco and finished one time, not refinished but finishes that Del Greco would do to an unfinished gun? This is an unusual gun by the barrel flat markings and to me could make sense .
Thank you for all the comments.
-Brett

[Brett Souder]

Researcher,
This is a closer view of the Symbol next to H3
- Brett

[Dave Noreen]

Researcher,
This is a closer view of the Symbol next to H3
- Brett

I guess that could be an O which would be July. Still neither 1939 or 1961make sense. 1939 would be before the barrels were made according to the XK date code, and 1961 would be after Remington quit repair work on Parkers.

Wonder if these were parts assembled into a gun by DelGrego? Generally, guns of this vintage don't have a rib legend on the barrels. Of the guns I've saved pictures of 241727 is a vent rib with no rib legend.

[Patrick Lien]

In my opinion That gun is a Del Grego redo front to back and top to bottom. The barrels also have no business on a 2423xx gun as they have normal Meriden Titanic engraving on the rib and that would not be on a Remington made gun from 1941. I have owned 6 different 2423xx Remington built guns with vent ribs and handled several others and the ribs were all blank. It is a re-barreled Frankenmonster refinised/rebuild by Del Grego and they left their signature on the pad.

PML

[John Davis]

Open that right choke up to a modified and you’ve got a great doubles trap gun.

[Phillip Carr]

It may just be the angle of the picture but the BT forend seems very flat on the underside.

[Scott Janowski]

I would be interested to see the three digits stamped on the bottom of the vent rib. That will tell the story.

[Chuck Bishop]

Or the underside of the trigger guard or even the 2 or 3 digits found on small parts.

[Bill Murphy]

The "Titanic" marking on the rib is way out of character with the surrounding legend.

[Dave Noreen]

It suddenly dawns on me that the RKS on the right barrel flat and the partial P on the left are vestiges of PARKER GUN WORKS OVERLOAD PROVED stamp --

104104

which apparently was mostly removed.

[Bruce Day]

The "Titanic" marking on the rib is way out of character with the surrounding legend.

Bill is correct. And why would a 242 thousand Remington Parker have any barrel rib markings ?

We know that in the 242 range there were guns assembled from remainder components after the close of production . These guns are not in the serial number records and tended to be higher grade and unusual in some way . Larry DelGrego Sr assembled some of these into the 1950’s and I understand others were done at the nearby Lefever shop.

The triplet blonde C grades cased together come to mind. They were owned by Bill Sefken and sold to I don’t know whom now.

[Dean Romig]

The "Titanic" marking on the rib is way out of character with the surrounding legend.


The legend on some, if not most, ventilated ribs were hand engraved rather than roll-stamped.This appears to be an example of that. And you can see that there was a word, mostly polished out, beneath the engraved TITANIC.





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[John Davis]

Picky, picky, picky. From a purely collectors view point, probably not a gun you'd be interested in. From a shooters stand point, you'd be lucky to own this gun and should thank Del Grego for all his hard work.

[Brett Souder]

Thank you for all of the observations. This is the kind of information I was hoping to gather.
- I will look for the three digit serial number under the rib, I couldn't find one under the last vent rib gun I had but I'm told it there if the lighting is just right.
- I will remove the trigger guard to see if there are any serial numbers.
- And I will try and get a better photo or look through a loop at the Titanic legend on the rib. what is the thought here with the vent rib legend? Is it that someone would engrave over another legend or should the wavy lines should have been continuous without space for the legend?
- What do the letters RKS stand for as related to Parker Proof barrels?
Again thank you to everyone for all comments, no offense here, just want to represent the gun properly
- Brett

[David Noble]

The RKS are the last three letters of the word “WORKS” as in Parker Gun Works Overload Proved.

[Brett Souder]

The RKS are the last three letters of the word “WORKS” as in Parker Gun Works Overload Proved.

Got it! The stars just aligned for me and now it makes sense where the faint "p" is located .
Thanks, Brett

[Dean Romig]

Regarding the rib legend - the only thing I question is the word TITANIC and what appears to have been beneath it. The matting and the unmatted section for the legend all look original to me.
Generally, that three digit number (last three digits of the serial number) should be found between the 2nd and 3rd posts.





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[Bruce Day]

Picky, picky, picky. From a purely collectors view point, probably not a gun you'd be interested in. From a shooters stand point, you'd be lucky to own this gun and should thank Del Grego for all his hard work.


True. Many of these late guns will make a person go weak in the knees.

[Bill Murphy]

The original poster asked for our opinion, then stated that all finishes look original. I think he has had the course. I will add that the finish on the barrel flat is a bit rough and that I have never seen a gun that late with the serial number in that location on the barrel lug. I think it is a leftover set of barrels or an unfinished set installed by Lefever or just possibly, Del Grego.

[Mike Franzen]

I question if the cyanide colors were done by Del Grego. The wood I would say definitely was. But the cyanide doesn’t look like Del Grego to me.

[CraigThompson]

Picky, picky, picky. From a purely collectors view point, probably not a gun you'd be interested in. From a shooters stand point, you'd be lucky to own this gun and should thank Del Grego for all his hard work.

While I prefer all original I could live with this gun . I kinda like target guns be it SBT , skeet guns , pigeon guns or double traps . Have everything covered except a double trap , perhaps down the road . But if I were shooting a trap doubles event I wouldn’t feel handicapped using either of my so called pigeon guns .

[Bill Murphy]

Mike, Del Grego's colors were mostly done at the Arms and the appearance depends on the day of the week. Not a criticism, because I love all my Del Grego and Remington guns. This is a Del Grego gun.

[Bruce Hering]

If I were a doubles trap guy, I would want that gun. Beautiful. Just sayin.....

[Brett Souder]

I think I have all the answers I was looking for. Thank you everyone who replied and to those who reached out to discuss this gun further. I now know that all I should have posted was a photo of the stock shield. A picture really is worth a thousand words.
-Brett

[JAMES HALL]

Shelly Gitman. The gun just answered it all.

[Bill Murphy]

What a surprise that is. I guess my opinion that it is a Del Grego gun was correct. My friend, Shelly's guns appear out of nowhere. Jim Hall will remember when what seemed like dozens of Shelly's guns were on display for sale at the NRA collectors show many years ago. That was the right time to pick up an underpriced Gitman gun. In all the years I was around Shelly Gitman, he never shot one of his Del Grego guns. He did not hunt, and he only shot proper clay target competition guns when he shot clays. He had gorgeous graded Superposed Brownings and other heavy competition guns, not Parkers.

[Mike Franzen]

Why wouldn’t he shoot Parkers? I don’t have any of his guns but I have one of his shirts.

[Bill Murphy]

Upgraded and "return to mint" Parkers were his life's project. It had nothing to do with shooting. He shot the guns designed in modern times for the game at hand. He was an International trapshooter. It was a religion for him. He built a fifteen trap International bunker for his use and the use of his friends. He participated in the Macabee games in Europe in the International Trap events. Some of his Jewish friends and shooting companions were also shooting friends of mine. He was personal friends with Larry Del Grego Sr. Larry not only built his guns, but he assisted in the procurement of the guns. One day in Tennessee, at an invitational shoot, at lunch in a horse barn, Shelly shared with Kevin McCormack and me, the story and history of the Invincibles. I was astounded that he finally let it all out. It was just Shelly, Kevin, and me. Shelly mentioned names that I knew, people that lived just a few miles from me, were in gun clubs that I had attended, that had owned the Invincibles. Shelly told us how he had become the owner of the Invincibles. It was a bit of information that has never been revealed to the Parker "importanati".

[Randy G Roberts]

Not to derail this thread but Shelly also had a DHE 20 in a Trap configuration that was done by Del Grego. 32" VR gun with double triggers. The owner provided me with some not so great cell phone pictures. This one and the subject gun of this thread together would make a nice pair.

[Mike Franzen]

Looking at the initials SG on the oval and assuming those stand for Shelly Gitman my question is, did Shelly use a standard style for the engraving or did it vary from gun to gun?

[Randy G Roberts]

Looking at the initials SG on the oval and assuming those stand for Shelly Gitman my question is, did Shelly use a standard style for the engraving or did it vary from gun to gun?

Don't know Mike but the subject gun and this one is very similar. One would think that the guns Del Grego completed for him would have all had the same style.

[JAMES HALL]

The man behind those initials

[Breck Gorman]

A photo of the forenend loop,on the bottom of the barrel would be helpful in determining if it was originally built with a beaver tail forend and can be really called a double trap gun. Gittman provenance aside, that beaver tail looks aftermarket.

[Dean Romig]

It has the correct checkering pattern for a DHE trap forend but the loop will tell the truth.
There is a picture on page 1 that shows a section of the underside with about 3+” of the rear rib section and there is no evidence of a reinforced loop… but we need to see that entire section including the loop.





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[Randy G Roberts]

I have seen additional pictures of this gun that clearly show it does have the correct reinforced loop.

[Bill Murphy]

Shelly and a bunch of MD and VA shooters regularly participated in a PRE=USSCA sporting clays shoot in the area of West Virginia west of I-81 and Wardensville. The shooting facility was on a many hundred acre estate, with a clubhouse at the end of a gated several mile long dirt and gravel road. The shoots were held monthly in the ATA off season. One shoot coincided with a wicked snowstorm and its related meltoff. Three of us decided to struggle through the weather and the near impassable road and attend the shoot. The road was as bad as anyone could imagine with muddy ruts and washouts. There were areas where my GMC four wheel drive Blazer struggled. We came to the bluff that overlooked the clubhouse area and were only mildly surprised to see Shelly's new Corvette parked in front of the clubhouse. We knew better than to question Shelly about whether he had any trouble getting in. We knew what the answer would be.

[todd allen]

Great story, Bill. Sounds like Shelly was a helluva guy!

[Brett Souder]

[QUOTE=Dean Romig;356586]It has the correct checkering pattern for a DHE trap forend but the loop will tell the truth.
There is a picture on page 1 that shows a section of the underside with about 3+” of the rear rib section and there is no evidence of a reinforced loop… but we need to see that entire section including the loop.


Hope this helps. I also wiped the grease of the barrel.
Thanks for the comments.
-Brett