Los Angeles c. 1889

[Mills Morrison]

The members here have always been very helpful when researching Parkers, so here I am again asking for assistance.

A little background . . . I have a BH shipped to Tufts Lyons Arms Co. in LA in 1889. It is one of the first BH hammerless Parkers made. The order was placed by S. A. Tucker. I see John Q. Tufts founded Tufts Lyons Hardware and I suppose he ordered this Parker for a wealthy customer.

I am interested in what this Parker would have been used for in 1889 LA. What was there to shoot / hunt around LA back then? I assume hunting with a 12 gauge with 30 inch barrels would have been duck hunting. Was there trap shooting or anything else then?

Thanks :bigbye:

[Garry L Gordon]

LA in 1889 boasted a population of about 50,000 (for reference, Charleston, SC had a population of about 54,000). There was a goodly amount of land surrounding it that held game of many types. The gun's weight and dimensions probably give a good clue, but placing it in its time would be necessary to help determine what type(s) of game the gun might have been built for (unless, of course, it was a trap/pigeon gun).

I love the B grade guns. I think they are perhaps the best combination of features and price among the higher grade guns. I hope you find some definite clues to your gun.

[Mills Morrison]

7 3/4 pounds. The SSBP had been removed and an angled spacer installed which indicates someone wanted the gun to really fit him. That would suggest trap or competitive shooting, but maybe not.

[Dave Noreen]

In one of the earlier Double Gun Journals there was an article about a railroad employee in California who had a side-line of marketing Parker Bros. guns who over the years received three Quality BH guns. Probably before Gaucho settled into California. The Pacific Flyway provided plenty of waterfowl and California was lousy with quail back in the day.

102885

Wonder if back then these little runners would hold for a dog?

I'm sure that pigeon shoots and inanimate target shoots were held as well.

[Bobby Cash]

The State bird of California.

[Kevin McCormack]

Researcher wrote: "In one of the earlier Double Gun Journals there was an article about a railroad employee in California who had a side-line of marketing Parker Bros. guns who over the years received three Quality BH guns. Probably before Gaucho settled into California."

The article appears in Vol. 3 Issue 3 (Autumn 1992) of the DGJ; "Mr. Perris' Parker Papers" by Wayne Cowette. The 28 gauge is a real heartbreaker!

[todd allen]

I can only imagine what LA was like in the 1880s, but an old family friend, now long gone, told me that LA was a paradise in the 1940s.

[Mills Morrison]

I think that was what Don Henley was talking about when he said call a place paradise and you can kiss it goodbye

[Bill Murphy]

Mills please give us the date of the order and delivery. In December of 1889, preparations were being made for the U.S. Cartridge Company tour, an East versus West competition with two teams of top pro and amateur shooters. A good percentage of the shooters were Parker shooters and it is possible that your gun was ordered for one of these competitors. The tour would take off for various parts of the country on January 27 of 1890. There was to be a flyer shoot in LA as part of the tour. Parker company shooters participating included T.K. Keller, J.R. Stice, S.A. Tucker, W.S. Perry, Charles Budd, and others. There were to be about 38 stops, with shoots at each stop. All of the Parker team shooters were furnished the new hammerless guns, in my opinion. Perry retired his C Grade hammer gun in 1889 and was issued a ten gauge DH hammerless. Other Parker shooters were probably treated the same. Too bad no name is attached to your gun.

[Mills Morrison]

Ordered March 29, 1880 and shipped September 25

[Garry L Gordon]

Mills, it looks like your gun was likely purchased and used as a target gun, but in case you find more information that suggests it was a game gun, there are some books that can give you some sense of the game opportunities in the area surrounding LA. The T. Van Dyke book is especially informative regarding the locale. They are all interesting reads.

[Mills Morrison]

Thanks Garry! Very helpful

[Mills Morrison]

I wonder if the C 10 hammer gun traded in is the one I have where the Order book is missing? I would love to solve that mystery

[Bill Murphy]

Sorry, Mills, the C 10 hammer gun traded by Mr. Perry is in my gun room. Small world, huh? My assumption is that all Parker company shooters were required to shoot hammerless guns starting in 1889. The switch to hammerless tens in 1889 was only a short time before a change to the 12 gauge for competition, both flyers and clay birds.

[Bill Murphy]

Duplicate post.

[Mills Morrison]

Mine is 31" - the only C 10 toplever with 31" barrels, so all we need is a famous trap shooter who had a gun fitting those specs. I am not holding my breath.

[Bill Murphy]

Your C grade is likely to have belonged to a Parker company shooter. What was that serial number again? The hunt is on. Where is the thread where you picture and discuss the C 10?

[Mills Morrison]

33,000 about

[Gary Bodrato]

Dumb question but, If the order was placed by S.A. Tucker a Parker factory rep shooter could it have been for himself?

[Bill Murphy]

Not likely. Most guns shipped to Parker shooters or salesmen like Tucker were shipped to them directly, not through a dealer. Mills, a dedicated competition pigeon gun of that era would be ordered at and delivered at, within an ounce or two of the 11 pound weight limit for competition guns at that time.

[Mills Morrison]

My C 10 is just under 11 pounds. The BH is way below 11. More like 7 1/2

[Gary Bodrato]

Tufts Lyons Store 1930

[Gary Bodrato]

Note the Parkers weight----
RARE PARKER AAH GRADE “PIGEON GUN” DOUBLE BARREL SHOTGUN. Cal. 12 ga. SN 83550. Spectacular & rare pigeon gun built in 1896 for the famous Parker Factory trap shooter & company representative S.A. Tucker. Mr. Tucker was one of the preeminent live pigeon shooters in the world in his day and represented the Parker Factory as their chief salesman for many years. He took delivery of this shotgun on June 9, 1896 and returned it August 30, 1902 for a credit. This shotgun was then displayed at the 1904 St. Louis Exposition & World’s Fair. This beautiful shotgun is as it was originally made with 30” Sir Joseph Whitworth Steel bbls choked FULL/FULL with 2-3/4” chambers (opened up by Del Grego), tapered, concave, matted rib, sgl bead, doll’s head rib extension, extractor and gold plated dbl triggers. It is made without a safety for the live pigeon shooter. Mounted with very beautiful, streaky, marblecake, honey & chocolate, circassian walnut with full checkered splinter forearm and checkered & carved, straight hand stock with raised, checkered, fleur-de-lis side panels, 14-1/2” over a solid Old English pad. It does not appear that the stock was altered when the pad was added. Bottom of stock has a gold initial plate engraved “PCH”. Receiver & appended metal are engraved in extremely fine, highest quality, foliate & floral arabesque patterns (rose & scroll) with full coverage, having maker’s name in a bar on each side. Engraver’s signature, “H. Gough”, is found in a semi-circle under the front of the triggerguard, a feature rarely ever found on a Parker shotgun and then only on the very highest grades. Back edges of fences have double raised ribs. Accompanied by a 2-chapter excerpt from the forthcoming book, Parker Guns and the American Experience, Ed Muderlak, which goes into great detail regarding the concept to production of the “AA” pigeon gun which was produced from 1894 and sold for $400.00, an astronomical sum in the 1890’s. There were approximately 200 “pigeon guns” made from 1894 thru 1919, although sporadic production continued until 1940. Also accompanying is a 5-page article regarding this very same “pigeon gun”, also by Mr. Muderlak, which appeared in the Double Gun Journal, Winter 1999, including several color photographs of this shotgun. This article further expands the information regarding the “AAH” pigeon guns, stating that there was a total of an estimated 320 of them produced. Additionally accompanying are reproduced copies of the Parker production records for this shotgun. Bore diameter: left – .739, right – .740. Bore restrictions: left – .043, right – .041. Wall thickness: left – .032, right – .022. Drop at heel: 1-3/4”, drop at comb: 1-3/8”. Weight: 7 lbs. 12.48 oz. CONDITION: Very fine, as completely & professionally restored by Larry Del Grego who also extended the chambers to their present 2-3/4”. Bbls retain a beautiful, strong, rust blue finish with no discernible flaws. Receiver retains virtually all of the Del Grego case hardening colors and the triggerguard all of its restored blue. Wood is sound with a very few, very minor storage & handling nicks & scratches and retains about all of its beautiful restored finish. Mechanics are fine, bright shiny bores with some minor roughness just in front of chambers. 4-30790 JR487 (27,500-42,500)

Auction: Firearms - Spring 2007
Please Note: All prices include the hammer price plus the buyer’s premium, which is paid by the buyer as part of the purchase price. The prices noted here after the auction are considered unofficial and do not become official until after the 46th day.

[Bill Murphy]

It seems that at that time, an eight pound limit was initiated by some organizations, probably including the Interstate Association.

[Garth Gustafson]

Here's another one of Tufts Lyon Arms Co. at 611 S. Olive St., Los Angeles taken around the same time as Gary's photo.
My 16 GH was shipped there as part of a larger stock order in April 1897. 0 frame, 28" dam barrels, 6-1/4 lbs. I'd like to think that little gun took its share of California quail back in the day.

[Gary Bodrato]

Bill, thats certainly a possibility. Mills asked what type shooting his Parker could have been used for, As his gun was ordered by factory salesman and shooting rep SA Tucker it appears Tuckers own Parker was of similar weight and maybe dimensions. The purchaser may have ordred the gun on Tuckers recommedations for a Live Bird and all around shotgun. That AAH Tucker owned certainly did not use much drop at heel during a time 3" was about norm.