Q1 & Q2 choke constrictions

[Skip Dillin]

Is there a typical number associated with each of these two chokes on a 12 ga reproduction gun ?

[Bob Jurewicz]

Skip,
In 12 GA I have found Q1 to be .003-.004" and Q2 .007-.008". As in all guns there will be variations in production.
These Q1/Q2 chokes in all gauges are very versatile and desireable.
Bob Jurewicz

[Skip Dillin]

Thank you Bob, that was what I was looking for.

[tom tutwiler]

Woodcock Chokes is what I call them. Should be W1 and W2. PS. We have no quail.

[Dean Romig]

Oops... my post was irrelevant.





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[Gerry Addison]

My absolute favorite chokes in these guns.

[Bill Murphy]

I only wish that my 28" Repros were bored Q1 and Q2. It took me years to find a double trigger 12 gauge Repro, 28" IC and MOD, pretty much a rarity among guns actually for sale. My 28" 28s are both bored modified and very full.

[Gary Laudermilch]

My 12 ga repro with 26" Q1/Q2 chokes measures .004/.009. The 28" marked IC/Mod measure .006/.012.

[Bill Murphy]

Whatever the chokes, a 12 gauge is, and will be in the future, a rare gun. Look at the production figures.

[Greg Baehman]

I've asked ths question before without ever coming up with an answer:

Do we know if there were any 12ga. Parker Reproductions produced with 28" barrels factory choked Q1/Q2?

We have seen them in all the other gauges 20, 28 and .410 as well as the 16ga. Krieghoff bbls., but the 12ga. w/28" bbls. factory choked Q1/Q2 may be so rare, there's not even a single one in existence!

[Dean Romig]

I’ve never heard of one Greg.





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[Stan Hillis]

Most people don't consider a 12 ga. a true quail gun, preferring small bore guns, myself included. That may be the reason none exist.(?)

[Greg Baehman]

Most people don't consider a 12 ga. a true quail gun, preferring small bore guns, myself included. That may be the reason none exist.(?)

But yet, we see a fair amount of 12ga. Repros w/26" bbls. factory choked Q1/Q2.

[Dean Romig]

The Q1 & Q2 markings were simply a Parker Reproduction contrivance of Skeet Out & Skeet In.






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[Bill Murphy]

28" 12 gauge open choke Repros are very scarce. I have seen or heard of a very few bored IC and M, but never have seen one bored or marked Q1 and Q2. How many of you own a 12 gauge 28" IC and M?

[Greg Baehman]

28" 12 gauge open choke Repros are very scarce. I have seen or heard of a very few bored IC and M, but never have seen one bored or marked Q1 and Q2. How many of you own a 12 gauge 28" IC and M?

The Central Wisconsin Winter Skeet League, in which I participate, schedules a 5-Man Team event once per year. About 5 or 6 years ago we fielded a team of shooters all shooting 12-ga. Repros. I was shooting a Sporting Clays Classic model and the other four shooters were shooting their DHE Repros -- all with 28" bbls., 3" chambers, factory choked IC/M, SG, SPL & DT -- none had the SS stamps.

They may be scarce, but they seem plentiful around here.

[Bob Jurewicz]

I have owned 2 and currently own 1. No SS stamps.
Bob Jurewicz

[allen newell]

I own 2 and no ss stamps

[Bill Murphy]

I had forgotten about the SS Specials which were 28" IC&MOD. I guess the 28" open choke guns are more common than I thought.

[charlie cleveland]

when I was just a boy growing up in the south a 12 ga double with 26 inch barrels was the quail hunters gun to own...and usally it was a lc smith field grade...charlie

[allen newell]

When I was just a boy growing up in the northeast, a 16 ga Parker was the gun to hunt grouse with.. And pheasant too.

[Robert Brooks]

When i was a boy growing up in Georgia Browning A5s were the bird guns in 16 and 12 gauge with no plugs. Bobby

[allen newell]

When I became a 'man', the 16 ga still ruled

[Greg Baehman]

The Q1 & Q2 markings were simply a Parker Reproduction contrivance of Skeet Out & Skeet In.

I have to say Dean, you're kinda right, but I don't think you're totally right. Now I could be wrong, but when we're talking about original Parker Skeet Out/Skeet In chokes, generally speaking the right barrel is the Skeet Out (tighter) choke and the left barrel is the Skeet In (more open) choke. In addition, these orig. Parker choke designations are typically constricted a few thousandths tighter than Parker Repro Q1 and Quail 2 or their predecessor SK1/SK2 chokings. Furthermore, Repros had the more open constriction (Q1) in the right barrel and the tighter choke (Q2) in the left barrel.

[Dean Romig]

Okay, I just measured the chokes in Kathy’s Repro 28 ga. with Q1 and Q2 stamps.
You’re right Greg about the tighter choke being in the left barrel of a Repro but these are more open than my 28 ga. VHE Skeet gun.
Repro chokes are Rt.- .004” and Left- .009” while the VHE is Rt.- .015” and Left is .008”







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[Greg Baehman]

Okay, I just measured the chokes in Kathy’s Repro 28 ga. with Q1 and Q2 stamps.
You’re right Greg about the tighter choke being in the left barrel of a Repro but these are more open than my 28 ga. VHE Skeet gun.
Repro chokes are Rt.- .004” and Left- .009” while the VHE is Rt.- .015” and Left is .008”.
Isn't that what I said? Besides the left/right reversal, original Parker Skeet Out/Skeet In chokes are tighter that Repro Q1/Q2 chokes. My 28ga. Q1/Q2 Repro has .004/.007 constrictions, same constrictions as in my 20ga. Q1/Q2 Repro.

[Greg Baehman]

Re-reading your reply Dean, I do see where your 28ga. left barrel is a hair more open than Kathy's left barrel, but your orig. 28ga. is a hair tighter than my 28 and 20ga. Repros. Mea culpa.

Is your orig. Parker stamped Skeet Out/Skeet in?

[Dean Romig]

No it’s not. It’s a 1935 gun but apparently just a couple of weeks or months before Remington began to stamp the flats with the Skeet stamps.





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[Dean Romig]

And I just re-learned another small point about the Q1 and Q2 chokes and stamps…
“New barrel choke designations - Quail 1 & Quail 2 - were added as an option on all gauges. Apparently these chokes were introduced to appeal to quail hunters. These choke designations were dropped and Skeet 1 - & Skeet 2 chokes were offered in a revised brochure, circa 1988.”
…So, the Q1 & Q2 were dropped in the revised brochure but was the stamp on the barrel flats revised as well? Are there any Parker Reproductions out there with stamps of Skeet 1 & Skeet 2 ???





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[Greg Baehman]

Yes, Dean I have seen a very few with Skeet 1/Skeet 2
stamps.

I read the same explanation of the switch from Q1/Q2 to SK1/SK2 that you have, but came to what may be an erroneous conclusion in that it was really the other way around -- that being the Skeet designations came first. I guess it was because we see so many more with the Q1/Q2 designations.

Not the best pic, but here's a 28ga. 26" set of barrels factory choked Skeet 1/Skeet 2. This was part of a 2-bbl. set, the other set is 26" IC/M.

[Dean Romig]

Right Greg, I’ve heard/read that variation too.





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[Johnny Johnson]

To continue the "When I was growing up in the South" theme - I grew up in south Georgia in the '50s and only knew two adult quail hunters. Both of those gentlemen shot Ithaca model 37's in 16 gauge. I personally started quail hunting with an external hammer 12 gauge side-by-side and later changed to a Remington model 11 in 12 gauge with a sawed off barrel. The repro that I currently own is a 28 gauge q1/q2.

[Dean Romig]

Greg, is the serial number of this SKEET 1 & SKEET 2 gun before or after the serial numbers of those known to have Q1 & Q2 stamps?





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[Greg Baehman]

Greg, is the serial number of this SKEET 1 & SKEET 2 gun before or after the serial numbers of those known to have Q1 & Q2 stamps?
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I did not record the serial number, I didn't think it was important at the time. Sorry.

[Robert Brooks]

I should have kept my 20 quail #1 and 2 but it had 15 inches lop and too long for me! Bobby

[Bill Murphy]

The serial number of the Skeet 1 and Skeet 2 is pretty interesting to collectors now.

[Greg Baehman]

Here's another Parker Reproduction factory-choked SKEET 1/SKEET 2. The serial number 20-1 is not of much help, however; as this gun is a National Sporting Fraternity Limited special edition 2-bbl. set. We have found that the NSFL guns have their own set of serial numbers per gauge and are numbered within that gauge. Given the cartouche on the top rib, it brings up the question: Were there 100 guns issued per gauge -or- a total of 100 guns in all gauges?

*Somewhat noteworthy is one of our members owns S/N 28-1 -- also a NSFL 2-bbl. set gun.

[Dean Romig]

Interesting Greg - I wonder if the chokes in those barrels truly correspond to the stamps on the flats.... is the right choke truly tighter than the left? If so, that would be opposite of the ones stamped Q1 & Q2.





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[Greg Baehman]

The seller didn't spec the constrictions and I haven't measured them. But, I would bet that the right barrel is more open and the left barrel is a bit tighter, corresponding with Q1/Q2.

[Bill Murphy]

Dean, the SKEET 1 barrel, the more open choke, is on the right, as it should be.

[Dean Romig]

The first shot taken in Skeet is the station 1 outgoer, hence Skeet 1, the incomer would be the second shot taken, hence Skeet 2... am I wrong?





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[Daniel Carter]

My 20 Repo q1/q2 is right 3 thou, left 7 thou. Hunting grouse and woodcock the first shot is usually closer so the front trigger is naturally the one you come to first. I started hunting with double trigger guns 60 years ago and have developed the ability to judge the distance and reach the right trigger with out thinking about it.
On the skeet field outgoing back trigger incoming front trigger. The constriction is perfect with todays plastic shot collar shells. Back when Parker made the skeet guns the ammo needed bit more choke to accomplish the same pattern.
Today with our guns and the current ammo we are ,in my opinion, over choked for most of are shooting. Some very long hits can be done with a modern load in a full choke Parker once you have figured out the lead at those distances

[Greg Baehman]

The below brochure introducing the 28ga. Parker Reproduction to the marketplace is not shown on the "The Parker Reproduction Literature" page of the "All Albums" section of this website; but, it ought to be! This one-piece brochure (with dealers listed on the back side) is not dated, but it is thought to be from 1986. If 1986 is indeed correct of when the 28 ga. Repro was first introduced the Q1/Q2 offering appears to answer the question of which choke stampings came first -- Q1/Q2 or Skeet1/Skeet 2.

But, of course, when speaking of Parkers, we never say never.

[Dean Romig]

So, according to the brochure Q1 & Q2 came first in the 28 gauge Reproductions.

And the picture you posted Greg, earlier in this thread, a 28 gauge with Skeet 1 and Skeet 2 stamps is obviously a later production gun, the 28’s having been introduced with Q1 & Q2 stamps.








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[Bill Murphy]

Skeet 1 is a Winchester invention and it is more open than Skeet 2, which is also a Winchester invention. Your last post is correct but shooters will use what barrel they choose. There is no confusion about the pictured Repro with Skeet 1 and Skeet 2. Skeet 1, open choke, Skeet 2, more choke.

[Dean Romig]

So Winchester threw the “wrench” into the works.





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[Greg Baehman]

In doing an internet search trying to find out which came first, Q1/Q2 or SK 1/SK 2, I came upon this four page letter that Jim Rikhoff of the National Sporting Fraternity Limited sent in 1987 to its membership. This letter announces among other things the availabilty of NSFL 28-ga. and 12-ga. NSFL Repros and that the 20-ga. NSFL Repros had already sold out of their run of 100 guns. Rikhoff mentioned he had been working with the Skeuse's for close to a couple of years prior to the date of the letter. So, one can assume it was probably 1985 when the first 20-ga. NSFL Repros were in member's hands. On pg. 4 of this thread I posted pics of NSFL 20-1 choked SKEET 1/SKEET 2, obviously these 20s w/Skeet chokes came prior to the 28-ga. guns . . . but were they offered before or after the Q1/Q2 choked twenties? The investigation continues...

[Bill Murphy]

I thought I'd seen it all in Repro literature, but I've never seen the Rikhoff letters. Thanks.