410 Shell Psig

[Karl Ferguson]

Are the store bought 410 - 2 1/2" - 1/2 oz shells safe to shoot in a mechanically sound vintage 410 SxS ?

I have always shot the RST - 2 1/2" - 1/2 oz shells that are 5000 PSI but haven't been able to find what psig the Winchester, Remington, Federal etc. shells are.

Do you think they would be a lot higher than the RST's ?

Thanks

[Dave Noreen]

According to the old Winchester loading guide, the 1200 fps 1/2-ounce load, pushed by 14-grains of 296, in the compression formed AA hull was 9800 psi. The load I currently use in Remington STS hulls, 13.2 grains of Lil'Gun, is 10,800 psi. The SAAMI spec for 2 1/2-inch .410-bore is an average max of 12,500 psi. Modern day factory loads are probably not much lower.

101570

[Daniel Carter]

Looking at Alliant reloading data they show 1 load for Remington cases at 6000psi with a powder i have not used . Other cases and loads range from 8000 up to 12000 psi. Wonder how RST gets them that low. Unless your gun was an unusual make or configuration i would think it would handle a current loading.

[Dean Romig]

The .410 Parkers have very stout chamber wall thicknesses.





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[Karl Ferguson]

I never paid a lot of attention to chamber pressure until I bought my first vintage Parker and started reading more about vintage guns.

I'm probably just over thinking the different 410 shells available in comparison to the RST's.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Unless you have damascus barrels, what is the worry with higher PSI. PSI does not even factor into the equation for recoil.
An RST 1/2 oz load at 1200 fps will have the same recoil, in the same gun as a modern 1/2 oz load at the same fps.

[Karl Ferguson]

Unless you have damascus barrels, what is the worry with higher PSI. PSI does not even factor into the equation for recoil.
An RST 1/2 oz load at 1200 fps will have the same recoil, in the same gun as a modern 1/2 oz load at the same fps.

Harold,

Why do people shooting Parker guns that have fluid steel barrels buy and shoot RST low psig shells ?

I've heard it said here many times that using Low Pressure RST shells will help head off potential problems with the older wood...

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Hi Karl, good question for sure. #1. Many shoot RST because they have short chambered fluid steel guns, such as 2 1/2", and modern shells are 2 3/4".
Recoil is the problem with older wood and PSI does not enter into the recoil equation. Of course PSI is a factor in safely shooting our damascus barrels.
I load a lot of low pressure loads myself, all 2 1/2 ", so I can shoot them in all my guns.
RST keeps fps to a modest level, say 1150 to 1200 fps, and alot, but not all modern shells seem to be high velocity.
RST also keeps the payload minimal--3/4 to 1oz ( 3/4 oz in a 12, 16, or 20 is a sweet shooting load.).
Thus with a smaller payload, lower velocity, the recoil is less--and less problems with the vintage gun stocks--and thats why I shoot them.
Again Google or visit the recoil formula and PSI is never mentioned. The weight of the gun is critical, ie the same load recoils less in an 8 lb gun than it does in a 6 lb gun.

[CraigThompson]

I’ve got an IJ Hercules and a Crescent Arms . I shoot my regular old 1200 FPS handloads and whatever the WIN / REM / Federal factory skeet loads are in both and haven’t had any problems to date . Might add I even shoot the factory 3” loads in the Hercules from time to time .

[Karl Ferguson]

Thank you Harold ... I really appreciate your reply.

Hopefully now I can find some 2 1/2" 410 shells other than just looking for RST's.

Thanks

[Dave Noreen]

Most of these vintage doubles if they have been in use since the mid-1920s to the 1980s have digested plenty of Western Super-X, Winchester Super-Speed, Peters High Velocity and Remington Nitro Express shells. These loads with progressive burning smokeless powder moved out their payloads at higher velocities than the older bulk and dense smokeless powders. From the turn of the century to the early 1920s the heaviest 12-gauge loads were 3 1/2 drams of bulk smokeless powder or 28-grains of dense smokeless powder pushing 1 1/4 ounce of shot from 2 3/4 inch or longer shells. The pressure generated by these shells were a bit higher than the current SAAMI specs for 12-gauge shells. The introduction of progressive burning smokeless powders allowed that 1 1/4 ounce to be moved out at higher velocity but with lower pressures. In the 16-, 20- and 28-gauges they could increase the payloads 1/8 ounce from the old bulk or dense loads, increase the velocity and keep the pressures reasonable.

While it certainly can't be proved, my bet is that the great bulk of the Twist and Damascus barrel Parker Bros. guns sold from the mid-1890s onward have never seen a black powder shell. A sport who could afford a Parker was also springing for the best and latest smokeless powder shells.

[Russell E. Cleary]

It is baseline for me that my gun can take more recoil than I can.

Can't wait for this dystopic ammunition components shortage to come to an end.