Parker Reproduction "Production Chart"

[Greg Baehman]

Wouldn't it be a great feature to have a Parker Reproduction "Production Chart" made as a sticky on this page of the forum or be reinstated with access via the Home Page?

I believe the Production Chart could easily be revised and updated to be as accurate as our collective knowledge allows. And going forward, as additional information comes to light, further revisions be made at that time.

What do you think, do you agree or disagree?

[Dean Romig]

I agree completely Greg.
The Parker Reproduction by Winchester is definitely part of Parker (shotgun) history and deserves space, as you say, on this website. JMHO





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[Bob Jurewicz]

I have been watching this thread hoping that someone or (s) would explain the concept or content of such a "Production Chart".
I must say I don't understand.
Bob Jurewicz

[Greg Baehman]

The below is an example of a Parker Reproduction "Production Chart" that several of us know to be inaccurate and in need of updating.

Production numbers:

DHE 28 Gauge 4,203
DHE 20 Gauge 5,800
DHE 12 Gauge 2,137
DHE 12 Gauge Steel Shot 350
DHE 12 Gauge Sporting Clays 125
DHE 410 Gauge 33
BHE 28 Gauge 7
BHE 20 Gauge 100
BHE 12 Gauge 100
BHE 410 Gauge 9
A-1 Factory Engraved, All Gauges 150
A-1 Custom Engraved, All Gauges 300
A-1 28/.410 Combo 16
Plus 500 16 Ga barrel sets that fit on the 0 frame 20ga DHE

If we just want to put some production numbers to be in-the-ballpark in the Production Chart then fine, but I believe we owe it to ourselves and to those coming after us to do better. I, and others; have questioned the number of DHE and BHE .410s produced, there also appears to be issues with the number of DHE 20s produced, the chart shows 5800 produced, but in Nick Sisley's interview with Jack Skeuse, Mr. Skeuse reported there were actually 6050 built.

As far as the Custom A-1 Specials are concerned I would agree Gournet did the lion's share of those, but if just his numbers are used in the chart there's a bunch more out there. I can name several other engravers like Baer, Koluch, Hurst, Strosin, Griffiths, Gamradt, Churchill and others that have completed custom in-the-white Parker Repro A-1 Specials. A few of these engravers have done multiples of them.

Like I had said previously: "I believe the Production Chart could easily be revised and updated to be as accurate as our collective knowledge allows. And going forward, as additional information comes to light, further revisions be made at that time."

[Bob Jurewicz]

OK!
Now I understnd. Except how do we make this chart more accurate other than learning if more guns in each catagory were produced, by members entering higher S#s?
Bob Jurewicz

[Dean Romig]

The below is an example of a Parker Reproduction "Production Chart" that several of us know to be inaccurate and in need of updating.

Production numbers:

DHE 28 Gauge 4,203
DHE 20 Gauge 5,800
DHE 12 Gauge 2,137
DHE 12 Gauge Steel Shot 350
DHE 12 Gauge Sporting Clays 125
DHE 410 Gauge 33
BHE 28 Gauge 7
BHE 20 Gauge 100
BHE 12 Gauge 100
BHE 410 Gauge 9
A-1 Factory Engraved, All Gauges 150
A-1 Custom Engraved, All Gauges 300
A-1 28/.410 Combo 16
Plus 500 16 Ga barrel sets that fit on the 0 frame 20ga DHE

If we just want to put some production numbers to be in-the-ballpark in the Production Chart then fine, but I believe we owe it to ourselves and to those coming after us to do better. I, and others; have questioned the number of DHE and BHE .410s produced, there also appears to be issues with the number of DHE 20s produced, the chart shows 5800 produced, but in Nick Sisley's interview with Jack Skeuse, Mr. Skeuse reported there were actually 6050 built.

As far as the Custom A-1 Specials are concerned I would agree Gournet did the lion's share of those, but if just his numbers are used in the chart there's a bunch more out there. I can name several other engravers like Baer, Koluch, Hurst, Strosin, Griffiths, Gamradt, Churchill and others that have completed custom in-the-white Parker Repro A-1 Specials. A few of these engravers have done multiples of them.

Like I had said above: "I believe the Production Chart could easily be revised and updated to be as accurate as our collective knowledge allows. And going forward, as additional information comes to light, further revisions be made at that time."



Greg - I agree completely with you on all points. It would be very nice to see a chart created from your collected data produced as a link from the left column of our Home page. It could be edited and/or added to as valid, verifiable info arises.





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[Greg Baehman]

OK!
Now I understnd. Except how do we make this chart more accurate other than learning if more guns in each catagory were produced, by members entering higher S#s?
Bob Jurewicz
Bob, there could be and there are more catagories than what is shown in the above chart I posted such as: 28/.410 bi-gauge sets in DHE and BHE grades, factory 3-bbl. sets, etc. When we talk about lowest/highest serial numbers, etc. that also opens up the possibility for a "Parker Reproductions Found" chart.

[Bob Jurewicz]

OK!
So lets do it.
Ask John D to post Greg's initial chart at the beginning of the Repro Catagory as a "sticky" with request for added info.
Bob Jurewicz

[Greg Baehman]

The below Production Chart is copied from above is known to be in error, in need of updating and then reinstated as either a sticky in the Parker Reproductions sub-forum or accessed on the "Parker Reproduction by Winchester" listing via the "Parker Grades" from the left hand column on the "Home page".

DHE 28 Gauge 4,203
DHE 20 Gauge 5,800
DHE 12 Gauge 2,137
DHE 12 Gauge Steel Shot 350
DHE 12 Gauge Sporting Clays 125
DHE 410 Gauge 33
BHE 28 Gauge 7
BHE 20 Gauge 100
BHE 12 Gauge 100
BHE 410 Gauge 9
A-1 Factory Engraved, All Gauges 150
A-1 Custom Engraved, All Gauges 300
A-1 28/.410 Combo 16
Plus 500 16 Ga barrel sets that fit on the 0 frame 20ga DHE

The below are some things to consider when updating the Production Chart. I believe frame sizes ought to be considered when updating the chart.

* 16 A-1 Special 28/.410 sets were produced--these obviously were built on a 00-frame.

* 9 BHE .410 guns were produced--no frame size is listed, but it's assumed these were on a 0000-frame, right? If we assume Sisley's reporting is accurate -- as he did interview Jack Skeuse for the article, we know at least 33 0000-frame guns were completed, but we don't know what grade they were finished out in. From a pic which was previously posted we see that it is a 0000-frame BHE and it is #52, so it can be assumed there are at least 52 BHEs, or more, on a 0000-frame out there--and there were 100 more 0000-frame guns at the time of Sisley's article that were started. We do know that Gournet engraved some of those as A-1 Specials, but we don't know how many he finished or if he, or other gunsmiths, finished them and in what grades.

* 33 DHE .410 guns were produced, but we don't know what frame size they were built on--were they on a 00 or 0000-frame?? Where did this quantity of 33 come from, was it the Sisley article?

* Do we know how many stand-alone Repro .410s were built on a 00-frame? I have asked this question several times and never received a response from anyone that has actually seen or heard of one.

* Do we know the number of DHE 28/.410 00-frame sets that were built?

* Do we know how many factory same gauge 3-bbl. sets were produced? I know of at least one shown in this forum, there could be others. How about bi-gauge 3-bbl. factory sets? (I personally have a problem considering a 20/16 3-bbl. set as being "original factory built")

Maybe there are no answers to the above, but if you're like me and enjoy the hobby, you'd like to know. At the very least, it appears the production chart could use a little help. Again, it's our collective knowledge that can provide that help.

There are several things we have learned and found concerning Parker Reproductions regarding the Production Chart above:

1. We now know and have seen pics of at least three 0000-frame BHE .410s produced that have DHE-style engraving. I believe these ought to be noted in a revised Production Chart. I believe everyone would have to agree that this is rare, odd and unusual -- even in the world of Parkers.

2. The Parker Reproduction Production Chart above states that there were 9 BHE .410s built. We have seen pics of B .410-0045 and B .410-0052 (both of these and another of which I don't have the S/N) happen to be built on 4/0 frames. It appears from these serial numbers that there were at least 52 built -- and there's probably more out there. The Sisley article corroborates these findings.

3. There are no BHE .410/28 sets mentioned in the Production Chart. We now know there is one and only one BHE .410/28 set ever produced. This is documented by a copy of a type-written letter by J.T. Skeuse, the President of Parker Reproductions to Leslie Blumberg.

4. The Sisley interview of Jack Skeuse stated there were actually 6050 20-ga. DHEs produced, the chart above shows 5800 built.

5. Commemorative and special editions, i.e.: the NSFL, BBHS and SSS guns ought to be listed separately as each series were assigned their own set of serial numbers.

Given the above, I respectfully request that the Production Chart be reinstated, revised and updated to show these Parker Repros found. And going forward, as additional information comes to light, further revisions be made at that time.

[Dean Romig]

I agree Greg and if anyone has more information on the Skeuse Parker Reproduction project than you do it’s got to be someone named Skeuse or someone who worked with or for Tom Skeuse.





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[Bob Jurewicz]

I sent John Dunkle a PM requesting the above mentioned action.
Bob Jurewicz

[Mike Koneski]

I must say, this is nothing that would even be on my radar as I'm not a numbers guy, but seeing the passion in your posts and the desire to find the exact numbers behind the repro guns is truly heart warming! Nice to see you guys getting the ball rolling on this project, I hope enough collectors chime in and add to the list and that someone who was close to the Skeuse project might even be able to shed more light on the numbers and keep "matriculating the ball down the field". This might even make a neat Parker Pages article, "The Quest for the Repros". Just sayin'.

[Bob Jurewicz]

It would be nice if thru this thread we could also unravel the mystery of the "P Guns", those with serial numbers prefaced with the capital P. Maybe in addition to the information requested by Greg we could ask members who own such guns to contribute info on their characteristics.
I own P-00415 it is a 20 GA DT, PG/SPLT with 14 15/16" LOP and two (2) sets of 16 GA barrels all housed in an original Repro Leather 3 barrel case and cover.
Bob Jurewicz

[Bill Murphy]

I would like to see some owners of #0000 frame .410s to come forward with their serial numbers.

[Greg Baehman]

I would like to see some owners of #0000 frame .410s to come forward with their serial numbers.


If what David Trevallion reported in his featured article "A Parker Repro Collection - A visual feast of rare smallbores" that appeared in the Jan/Feb 2021 issue of SSM is accurate, one collector (I think we all have a pretty good idea who that is) owns 11 of the reported 41 .410 Parker Repro smallbores ever made. If this one collector came forward with serial numbers of his 0000-frame .410 collection, it would go a long way in answering your request.

[Bill Murphy]

I would assume there are many DHE 00 frames with 28 and .410 barrels with the .410 barrels installed later. Maybe all such sets have .410 barrels installed later. My assumption is that many of the total 28 gauge production was before the first .410 barrel set was made. Only Mr. Skeuse could tell us how far along 28 gauge production was before .410 barrels started to become available. If we knew that number, we could at least guess whether a gun was an original 28-.410 set and which ones had retrofit .410 barrels.

[Greg Baehman]

****SNIP****

The below Production Chart is copied from above is known to be in error.

DHE 28 Gauge 4,203
DHE 20 Gauge 5,800
DHE 12 Gauge 2,137
DHE 12 Gauge Steel Shot 350
DHE 12 Gauge Sporting Clays 125
DHE 410 Gauge 33
BHE 28 Gauge 7
BHE 20 Gauge 100
BHE 12 Gauge 100
BHE 410 Gauge 9
A-1 Factory Engraved, All Gauges 150
A-1 Custom Engraved, All Gauges 300
A-1 28/.410 Combo 16
Plus 500 16 Ga barrel sets that fit on the 0 frame 20ga DHE




There are no BHE .410/28 sets mentioned in the Production Chart. We now know there is one and only one BHE .410/28 set ever produced. This is documented by a copy of a type-written letter by J.T. Skeuse, the President of Parker Reproductions to Leslie Blumberg.

****SNIP****



...and then there were two...or were there three?

Robin Hollow Outfitters has recently listed two Parker Reproduction BHE 28/.410 bi-gauge sets on GI that appear to be original-from-the-factory little jewels S/N 28-0026 and 28-0030. Prior to this listing we thought there was only one in existence. Never say never.

[Greg Baehman]

In conjunction with the above BHE 28/.410 bi-gauge sets Robin Hollow has also recently listed two Parker Reproduction A-1 Special 28/28/.410 3-barrel sets, S/N 28-036 and 28-047. There hadn't been any listed in the old production chart. Any 3-barrel set is an extremely rare bird, here are two of them:

[Bob Hayes]

And the price they're asking is on par with an original

[allen newell]

Is Mr Skeuse still alive?

[roger mcmanimon]

His son is.

[Brian Dudley]

The 3 sons are. Or maybe there were 4.

[Bill Murphy]

One missing figure on the Repro chart is the number of A-1s by gauge rather than just the 150 total. Mr. Skeuse probably has that figure or a close estimate.

[Dean Romig]

Does that 150 count include those that were “in the white”??





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[Bill Murphy]

Yes, Dean, I would guess that the Gournet .410s were included in the 150. However, I don't believe the 150 figure. If there are 150 A-1 28s and .410s, where are they?

[Dean Romig]

No Bill - I was asking about the unengraved “in the white” A-1 Specials.





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[Bill Murphy]

The "Gournet" A-1 .410s were the "in the white" guns, but not 150 of them. Geofroy probably knows how many he was given, the rest, who knows?

[Dean Romig]

Geoffroy was the in-house engraver for Tom Skeuse and worked in that position for many years… I’ve heard something like 10 years.
But many were sold actually in the white to allow buyers to have them engraved to their specifications by an engraver of their choice.





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[Greg Baehman]

The recent Sept. 2023 Guyette & Deeter, Inc. auction featured two Parker Reproductions that are truly rare birds -- at least to myself and likely many others.

1. We all are aware that Parker Reproductions were produced in DHE, BHE and A-1 Special Grades in 12, 16, 20, 28ga. and .410 bore, as well as several commemorative editions. But, were you aware Parker Reproductions were considering an AAHE Grade offering as well? This Parker Reproduction AAHE 20ga. 2-bbl. set shown below is likely to be one-of-a-kind and the only one in existence. S/N 20-241. Sold for $19,200.00.

2. We are also aware that the Sporting Clays Classic model in an edition of only 125 was originally offered only in DHE Grade as a 12ga. w/28" bbls. But, the Sporting Clays shotgun shown below in BHE Grade is the first one I've ever seen or encountered. (Note: G&D, correctly, did not identify this as a Sporting Clays Classic model.) This gun was made up with 32" non-original Parker Reproduction barrels having Briley choke tubes. S/N 12-0063. Sold for $4,680.00.

[Bill Murphy]

Yup, they are both very rare guns that any of us would love to own.

[Greg Baehman]

Here's yet another 12ga. Parker Reproduction BHE, S/N 12-0056, claimed to be the only BHE Steel Shot Special ever produced.
https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/shotguns/parker-shotguns-reproduction/parker-reproduction-bhe-steel-shot-special-12ga-28-ic-m-used-.cfm?gun_id=102445366

The buyer of this gun will certainly be purchasing a rare gun as we don't often encounter a 12ga. BHE w/28" bbls., 3", IC/M with double triggers. However, it is not the only BHE claimed to be a SSS ever produced, there have been others as well. One of them, BHE 12-0098, was previously discussed in these threads:
https://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=23938&highlight=BHE
https://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=19537

Pictured below are a couple of pics of BHE 12-0056 currently listed for sale on GI:

(Note: This gun does bring up a couple of questions:
1. Why no "SS" as part of the S/N?
2. Are the choke areas chrome lined?
3. Are the choke leades longer as has been reported of the SSS than those of standard Repros?)

[Dean Romig]

Greg, I thought I had read on a Parker Reproduction brochure that all Repros had chrome-lined barrels…?





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[Greg Baehman]

Greg, I thought I had read on a Parker Reproduction brochure that all Repros had chrome-lined barrels…?
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You may have read that they have chrome-lined barrels, but we're specifically talking about chrome-lining through the choke area -- which has been reported as being unique to the SSS.

[Reggie Bishop]

Mr. John Allen special ordered one and his thoughts were that it was the only one to his knowledge. I think it may have been the gun that Jaqua's has listed. But I can't say for sure. John stated that the one he ordered had IC/Mod chokes and that the other BHE guns had M/F. Again, I am speaking based on recall so don't hold me to anything.

[Reggie Bishop]

I found this---

https://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=27622&highlight=steel+shot+special

[Greg Baehman]

I found this---

https://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=27622&highlight=steel+shot+special
Yep, that is the exact same gun, BHE 12-0056, that Mr. Allen sold and is now again for sale listed on GI by Jaqua's.

And here's another BHE 12-0098, supposedly a Steel Shot Special which sold at a Rock Island Auction:
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/73/3526/winchester-parker-reproduction-double-barrel-shotgun

[Reggie Bishop]

Jaqua has had that gun for quite some time.

[Bob Hayes]

I saw 00060 SSS this past weekend.Considerable cc wear but nice gun with case, sleeve and snap caps.

[John Allen]

At the time it was ordered number 0056 was the only BHE produced in a steel shot configuration. I am sure that others were made later. It is not marked SS because it was a special order gun. The SS marked guns were part of the initial order of 350 guns placed by Jaegers. They were marked SS so we could keep them separate from the standard 12 gauge repros. I have serial number 12-00026,which was the first 12 gauge produced and was the prototype steel shot special. It is not marked SS because it was the prototype.

[Bill Murphy]

The 32" gun that Greg describes is incorrectly described as having "Parker Reproduction 32" barrels". The barrels are Parker Brothers or Remington Parker barrels. With Japanese Reproduction barrels, the gun would have sold for a much higher price.

[Greg Baehman]

The 32" gun that Greg describes is incorrectly described as having "Parker Reproduction 32" barrels". The barrels are Parker Brothers or Remington Parker barrels. With Japanese Reproduction barrels, the gun would have sold for a much higher price.

In your post are you referring to the Parker Reproduction 32” BHE Sporting Clays shotgun (not an SCC model) on pg. 3? If so, neither G&D nor I described the barrels as you quoted as having “Parker Reproduction 32” barrels.”

G&D described them as “Made with 32” steel barrels that have plain concave top rib with small brass front bead.” After contacting Josh L. to get clarification on the barrels and choke tubes I described them as: “The gun was made up with 32” non-original Parker Reproduction barrels having Briley choke tubes.”

I admit I could have been more clear with my description. At the time I was thinking “non-original” was enough that others would understand they were not original Parker Reproduction barrels.

[Bill Murphy]

The G&D description was as unclear as yours. "Assembled by Jack Skeuse" would create the assumption that the barrels were not only assembled by him but manufactured by his company. Doesn't make any difference now that it is in the hands of the new owner for a reasonable price.

[Greg Baehman]

The G&D description was as unclear as yours.

You're the guy whose solution to every problem with guns, chokes, or ammunition is "Learn to shoot." You might consider adding "Learn to quote" as well as "Learn to post pics" to your repertoire. :bigbye:

[James Palmer]

Do we know how many of these were made?

https://robinhollow.com/guns-for-sale-online/shotguns/parker-shotguns-reproduction/parker-reproductions-a1-special-2-barrel-20-gauge-set-in-makers-case.cfm?gun_id=102810825

[Greg Baehman]

Your linked RHO 20ga. A-1 Special is a factory engraved example and without a doubt a real beauty!

I believe the short answer to your question is no. Unless someone comes forward that has access to the remaining Parker Reproduction records and brings to light an exact number of A-1 Specials by gauge, we'll have to go with the production chart shown earlier in this thread and published in The Parker Story. That number is 150 A-1 Specials with factory engraving in all gauges (12, 20 and 20/16ga. combos) were built.

If one were to estimate and use the 3:1 ratio of 20 to 12 gauge DHE-Grade Parker Reproductions produced (certainly debatable if we can or can't) and there were ~150 total A-1s in all gauges, there's likely less than 100 20ga. factory engraved A-1s in existence. The linked RHO gun at #87 was probably near the end of the 20ga. A-1 Special factory engraved offerings.

[James Palmer]

Here is # 172 which is pretty much exactly like the RH gun.

[Kevin McCormack]

This thread has become worthy of being , as the Jefferson Airplane said, "Knee Deep in the Hoopla."

[Greg Baehman]

Here is # 172 which is pretty much exactly like the RH gun.
Is #172 factory engraved? If so, it was reported that 150 factory engraved and 300 custom engraved A-1 Specials in all gauges were produced. Perhaps the factory and custom engraved guns were intermixed chronologically in production???

[Greg Baehman]

This thread has become worthy of being , as the Jefferson Airplane said, "Knee Deep in the Hoopla."
This is how we gain knowledge and learn.

[James Palmer]

Yes...it is.

It was purchased on 2/22/90 for $8,766.00

I slightly interesting bit of information is at the time they ran out of the reproduction oil bottles so it did not come with the gun and they were back ordered. They arrived in Sept 1990.

James

[Clark McCombe]

New to the Parker world....
what is a Parker reproduction? I saw an ad for one online and it appeared quite expensive

[Greg Baehman]

New to the Parker world....
what is a Parker reproduction? I saw an ad for one online and it appeared quite expensive
This link will take you to an article that David Trevallion wrote that appeared in SHOOTING SPORTSMAN MAGAZINE several years ago. This will be a good start on what a Parker Reproduction is:
https://shootingsportsman.com/parkerrepro/

[Clark McCombe]

beautiful article.
I'm intrigued by the mystique of Parker even more

[Dean Romig]

David called me just yesterday for a chat. He’s 87 and still sharp as a tack !!






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[William Woods]

I have been following this link from the beginning. It seems the idea has stalled.

I have wondered about all the "P" designation guns. I thought the term "prototype"would indicate that the model would have different specifications than others that followed. There appears to be a large number of Parker reproductions that are presented with the prototype designation. What would the differences be between the guns in the same gauge that would earn a gun the "prototype" designation?

Having a category of guns with the "P" designation, listing the differences between each, would be interesting.

Has the idea of the Parker Reproduction Chart idea been shelved? I certaintly hope not.

Thanks to all those that contribute their knowledge of all Parkers to the members.

[Dean Romig]

Has the idea of the Parker Reproduction Chart idea been shelved? I certaintly hope not.

Thanks to all those that contribute their knowledge of all Parkers to the members.


Our Research Chairman, Chuck Bishop, has indicated that he wants no part in Parkers Reproduction research.





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[Donald F. Mills]

So while having coffee this morning I thought I would let AI take a crack at estimating production numbers. I started by giving it the prompt to use the forum as primary source to estimate and then I refined the prompt to allow additional sources and finally asked it for a detailed research report. The results are interesting and the 12 page report has lots of information worthy of discussion in it. Even some information on the “P” guns which I believe I have a contradictory PM from Richard Skeuse on. Below is a link to the research report and the chart from it.

[Dean Romig]

Great job Don!!

While I generally despise anything “AI” because we are inundated by the misuse of AI at every turn on the Internet, this report, though incomplete, provides a comprehensive tabulation of most facts we know about the Parker Reproduction by Winchester.

I find it odd that no mention is made of the 16 gauge barrel sets provided by Tony Galazan and that only 52 of the .410 barrel sets were produced when I have provided clear evidence of a serialized number 54.

All in all, thanks Don!





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[Donald F. Mills]

Thanks Dean. As I mentioned here is the PM from Richard Skeuse regarding the “P” guns being “Personal” guns.

Hi Don, Thanks for your question. The P guns were Prototypes that were the first of many Parker Reproduction guns made. They were NOT for friends and famly. Your gun was sold to Cape Outfitters in Cape Girardeau,Mo.I hope this cleans up the "friends and family" mistery once and for all. Enjoy the gun and may we pass in the fields.

[Bill Murphy]

At least 52 BHE .410? Where are they?

[Donald F. Mills]

At least 52 BHE .410? Where are they?

I think it generated that number solely based upon the serial number observed according to the notes column. Not sure that there is a completely direct correlation between serial number and number produced in this case.

[Bill Murphy]

Thank you.

[William Woods]

I read the information on the "P" guns and there appears to be two different camps. One says that the "P" designated guns were "Personal" guns to be gifted by the Skeuse's. This poster states he was told this by one of the Skeuse's. Another poster states he was told by one of the Skeuse's that the "P" designation was for the "Prototype" Parker Reproductions. Earlier I asked what variances qualified a Parker Reproduction to be designated a "P" gun? I did not receive an answer to that question. Having read the information on the 20/16 gauge sets ordered by the NSFL, and the 500 Krieghoff made barrels, I have other questions. I read that the NSFL sets with the 16 gauge barrels had the 16 gauge barrels numbered to the gun. These sets were manufactured with the normal serial number process. I take that to mean that those sets were numbered 1 through 1,000. That assumes that 1,000 sets were actually produced. Does any PGCA member have any documentation of the highest number set? Were the additional 500 barrels manufactured by Krieghoff serial numbered 1 through 500? Does anyone have a record of the highest serial number of the 500 16 gauge barrels? How would one know if a 16 gauge barrel set was one of the 500, or out of a broken set out of the 1,000, aside from a serial number higher than 500? Were there any 20/16 gauge sets produced other than those ordered by the NSFL? Interesting, confusing, and informative. Thanks to all for the information.

[Dean Romig]

It’s unfortunate but it is a fact that there isn’t nearly (not even close) the factual documentation on Parker Reproduction production as we have at our disposal of original Parker Brothers guns. There are so many questions and the answers to these we will never know. There is scant little (known) documentation on the Repros that in most cases we can only make educated guesses.

I’m in the camp that believes the “P” guns were personally earmarked either to be used as gifts or specially ordered and deeply discounted by Jack Skeuse for good friends and relatives… or maybe for Presentation to those folks.

How could there have been “prototype” guns numbering into the hundreds? Wouldn’t, by the mere definition of the word, such “prototypes” be limited to just a handful of examples??

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[Greg Baehman]

Although William, this post doesn’t answer your specific questions regarding the NSFL guns, it nonetheless is an interesting 4-page letter written by the president of the NSFL, Jim Rikhoff, to the members of the NSFL. Make of it what you want.

[Bob Jurewicz]

I have a "P" 20/16 GA three (3) barrel set P-00415. It has 1 set of 20 GA barrels and 2 Krieghoff 16 GA Barrels all with a Parker Repro 3 barrel case and cover. All barrels are numbered to the 20 GA receiver. The Krieghoff 16 barrels have two (2) additional number stampings, the date produced and the set number. The Q1/Q2 barrels were made on 12/95 and stamped #505. The Mod/Full barrels were made on 10/94 and numbered 399.
Bob Jurewicz

[Larry Stauch]

I have a "P" 20/16 GA three (3) barrel set P-00415. It has 1 set of 20 GA barrels and 2 Krieghoff 16 GA Barrels all with a Parker Repro 3 barrel case and cover. All barrels are numbered to the 20 GA receiver. The Krieghoff 16 barrels have two (2) additional number stampings, the date produced and the set number. The Q1/Q2 barrels were made on 12/95 and stamped #505. The Mod/Full barrels were made on 10/94 and numbered 399.
Bob Jurewicz

Bob, if I've never told you before how great I think you are, how cool you are, how wonderful you are, how good looking you are (even though I've never seen you), how nice you are, and how in general - just over the top you are; then let me just say it now. Now I don't want you to think I'm trying to butter you up in the event you may cosider selling that three barrel set and me being the very first one you contact. Not at all. I just think it's time to tell you how I really think about you. May I call you Dad? :bowdown:

[Bob Jurewicz]

My list of adoptees is ever growing.
:bigbye:

[William Woods]

It’s unfortunate but it is a fact that there isn’t nearly (not even close) the factual documentation on Parker Reproduction production as we have at our disposal of original Parker Brothers guns. There are so many questions and the answers to these we will never know. There is scant little (known) documentation on the Repros that in most cases we can only make educated guesses.

I’m in the camp that believes the “P” guns were personally earmarked either to be used as gifts or specially ordered and deeply discounted by Jack Skeuse for good friends and relatives… or maybe for Presentation to those folks.

How could there have been “prototype” guns numbering into the hundreds? Wouldn’t, by the mere definition of the word, such “prototypes” be limited to just a handful of examples??

.

Your last paragraph is the question I originally asked, worded somewhat differently. I did not understand how there could be so many Prototype guns with the same specifications. I thought that there might be subtle differences between the guns that I was unaware of. The poster that stated that one of the Skeuses told him that the "P" guns were prototypes has yet to chime in. Thank you Mr. Dean.

[William Woods]

Although William, this post doesn’t answer your specific questions regarding the NSFL guns, it nonetheless is an interesting 4-page letter written by the president of the NSFL, Jim Rikhoff, to the members of the NSFL. Make of it what you want.

Thank you Mr. Greg.

[Donald F. Mills]

Your last paragraph is the question I originally asked, worded somewhat differently. I did not understand how there could be so many Prototype guns with the same specifications. I thought that there might be subtle differences between the guns that I was unaware of. The poster that stated that one of the Skeuses told him that the "P" guns were prototypes has yet to chime in. Thank you Mr. Dean.

Here is what Richard Skeuse replied to me regarding that question based on a label found in the case of my repro:

Hi Don. I have no idea where that label came from, however as I said previously I’m not sure how many P numbered Parker Reproductions were made. I can assure you that there were not 4-5. Numbers started at P 001 I assume but that information was lost in hurricane Floyd. You have the 420th or so that was made. That is all I can tell you about the gun. Thanks
Richard Skeuse is offline

https://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=992&pictureid=13159

I believe all of the P guns are 20 gauges and that there are 500 of them.

[Greg Baehman]

One can read what Richard Skeuse had to say regarding the P-guns in posts #5 & #7 in this thread: https://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3468

[Bill Murphy]

The label is a reproduction of a British charge label that John Bugden filled out for his Repro. It has nothing to do with Repro production. John Bugden is a skilled craftsman and also a gun dealer.

[William Woods]

Here is what Richard Skeuse replied to me regarding that question based on a label found in the case of my repro:

Hi Don. I have no idea where that label came from, however as I said previously I’m not sure how many P numbered Parker Reproductions were made. I can assure you that there were not 4-5. Numbers started at P 001 I assume but that information was lost in hurricane Floyd. You have the 420th or so that was made. That is all I can tell you about the gun. Thanks
Richard Skeuse is offline

https://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=992&pictureid=13159

I believe all of the P guns are 20 gauges and that there are 500 of them.


Thank you Mr. Mills. That label in the case would have been great if from the Parker folks, still a nice bit of "case candy". Still a bit of mystery as to how many "P" guns were manufactured isn't there? What have we seen so far as the highest serial number of the original 20 gauge "P" (prototype) guns? Somewhere a little over 400 I believe. Do you, or anyone else, know if all the Parker "P" guns had the Parker Reproduction labels in the top of the case? I have a case that is sans the label.

[William Woods]

So the label in Mr. Mills case states the gun was manufactured in 1982. Another bit of information that corrects what I thought. I was under the assumption that production of the guns started in 1985 and ended in 1989. Corrections appreciated.