Remington Barrel Steel

[jefferyconnor]

I see there has been a few posts in the past regarding the steel in the various grades of Parkers. Does anyone know, were the later Remington barrels with the plain/no address rib included in that study? I assume Remington ran out of Meriden made barrels at some point and made barrels at Ilion after. Does Parker advertising circa 1940 discuss the barrel steel? I have a 1940 VHE that lacks the circle and barrel letter grade on the flat. One possibility is the steel is equivalent to a contemporary M11 or M31, any thoughts?

[Phillip Carr]

Great question. I would venture a guess they used Remington Steel or possibly Ordnance steel.

[Bruce Day]

Like most Parker questions , The Parker Story provides the answer. The chapter on Barrels and chokes states that Remington ordnance steel was used. Other sources reveal the composition of Remington ordnance steel.

The Parker Story is necessary information for any person having an interest in Parker shot guns.

[Dave Noreen]

The barrels of both the Remington Autoloading Shotgun and the Remington Repeating Shotgun and later the Models 11 and 10 were stated to be Remington Steel. They continued to mention Remington Steel in the catalogs through the 1923. After that they don't mention the barrel steel. Ordnance Steel was offered as an option for about $5 extra.

100968

100969

Mention of Ordnance steel seems to have disappeared before WW-I.

[charlie cleveland]

whats the difference between ordance steel and Remington steel... charlie

[Drew Hause]

https://www.remingtonsociety.org/pre-wwi-shotgun-barrel-steels/

[Craig Budgeon]

My guess is SAE 4130. Alloy steels became popular prior to WW1 in the auto industry. Weapon manufacturers used it in there products including Fox during the war. Fox had a surplus of barrel steel post WW1 which they called Cromax which was believed to be SAE 4130. 4130 is 20-30% stronger than 1020, cost was acceptable, and was plentiful in the 1930's as the airplane industry used great quantities. I do not think the purchasing agents at Remington would have been willing to order a variety of steels for a low volume product such as Parkers. Use what we have!

[Drew Hause]

Craig: A.H. Fox introduced “Chromox High Pressure Fluid Steel” for graded guns in 1912. Dave probably has a catalog description; as "chrome-nickel and vanadium steel."

https://photos.smugmug.com/US-Makers/Fox/i-PjhKQ7C/0/be7d2105/L/Hunter-Trader-Trapper%201912%20Fox%201-L.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/US-Makers/Fox/i-PjhKQ7C/A)

An A.H. Fox Gun Co. ad in 1911 Shields’ Magazine states “all small parts are Chrome Nickel Steel”
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=nyp.33433082328349&view=1up&seq=392&skin=2021

[Craig Budgeon]

Drew thanks for the correction on the date and the correct spelling of Chromax. Bill Joliff here is a chance for you to contribute your Fox knowledge.

[jefferyconnor]

Here is the barrel flat of the subject gun. Note, no circle or letter indicating the steel grade. The date code in the second picture “KJ” is 1940. Since it lacks a steel grade letter stamp, can we think this is Ordnance Steel, per the book? What are your thoughts?

As a counterpoint, I did see a 1940-41 date code replacement barrel on a 2 frame on a recent GB listing with the circle and “OV” on a PH, marked G on the left side of the lump.

This gun still has a 2 5/8” gauged chamber length, despite being marked for 2 3/4” shells.

[Bill Murphy]

The rebarreled PH, marked V grade on the lug and OV on the flat, was discussed recently. No mystery there. Many replacement barrels were marked V grade for 2 3/4" shells regardless of the grade of the gun they are installed on. The only interesting feature is that the barrels were marked OV for Trojan. Most all Parkers for 2 3/4" shells had 2 5/8" chambers.

[Dave Noreen]

From the April 1897 Remington Arms Co. catalog which introduced steel barrels for the Remington Hammerless Double.

101011

101012

[Dave Noreen]

The text for each grade Parker in the big Remington era catalog describes the barrels in glowing terms, but no steel names.

A1 Special --"The barrels are of high tensile strength to insure safety, heat treated for durability and free from all imperfections."

AHE -- "The material used in Parker barrels must pass severe tests to insure great strength and long life."

GHE -- "Steel of a specially selected high quality is used for the barrels, which are strong, well built and of lasting service."

Seems kind of peculiar to me that while Winchester was touting their Winchester Proof Steel, Remington moved away from the fanciful names on their barrel steel. From a 1940s Model 11 and The Sportsman folder -- "High grade steel is used for action and barrel."

[Dave Noreen]

Fox had a surplus of barrel steel post WW1 which they called Cromax which was believed to be SAE 4130.

That is pretty much an Olde Wive's Tale. On a very high percentage of Fox Chromox barrels one can see remnants of the tube supplier's marking on the bottom of the barrels forward of the barrel flats -- LLH, SB&Co., the D with a three-lobed crown over it, etc. Over the years I've even observed barrels of early post WW-I vintage with vestiges of the FLUID--STEEL--KRUPP--ESSEN markings on the bottom and roll-stamped CHROMOX FLUID COMPRESSED STEEL on top.

[Drew Hause]

The mythology may have started related to the sale of presumed frame steel.
July 1, 1920 American Machinist published an Ordnance Salvage Board Surplus Property Sale of almost 75,000 pounds of “Spec. Shape Gun Steel” from the A.H. Fox Gun Co. with C .15-.25%, Mn .5-.7%, S & P < .06% = AISI 1020
https://books.google.com/books?id=ezRMAQAAIAAJ&pg=RA1-PA409&lpg

An occasional Sterlingworth 'SB&Co' mark is likely that of Samuel Buckley & Co., which also supplied Ithaca rough forged tubes.
The mark is a different font than the Sanderson Bros. mark found on Smith and some Ithaca Flues guns.

The American Exporter’s Export Trade Directory of 1915 listed Samuel Buckley & Co. as “chiefly importers” with offices at 16 East 33rd St., New York, 2 Soho Square, London and Liege, Belgium.

[jefferyconnor]

"Seems kind of peculiar to me that while Winchester was touting their Winchester Proof Steel, Remington moved away from the fanciful names on their barrel steel."

Researcher, that is interesting, they may have been pursuing a different advertising strategy compared to Winchester. Another thought is that though both Ordnance Steel and WPS are terrifically strong alloys, Winchester Proof steel had an edge in UTS/elastic limit and Remington didn't want to underline that fact.
Also, since as stated in the Parker Book, Ordnance Steel was used in this era Parker guns, maybe Remington had standardized on that alloy for the entire line, is another possible explanation as to why they did not advertise the fact of them having Ordnance Steel — it had become sort of a standard thing by then?