Over bored barrels

[Austin J Hawthorne Jr.]

I've read on previous posts that Parker Bros. over bored many of their 10 and 12 gauge barrels before, and shortly after, the turn of the century. Does anyone have, or have knowledge of, any 16 and 20 gauge guns from this time period that are also over bored? If so, how would you know if it is factory original work or, in the absence of a letter, if the gun was returned to Parker Bros. to have the bore "cleaned up". I will assume that if the barrels are dangerously thin that Parker Bros. would not have done the re-boring. Also, did other manufacturers of the period ( Fox-Ithaca-Lefever-etc.) over bore their barrels?

[Stan Hillis]

Fox, as a rule, only over-bored barrels on the HE grade, the Super Fox, AFAIK. They will run in the range of .738" - .742", typically. As far as being honed out upon return to Fox/Parker/ Ithaca, etc., how could you know factory work from work done thirty/forty years later by a competent gunsmith? Only factory documentation/letter accompanying the gun would enlighten concerning that. Understanding the choke profiles, as bored by the original manufacturer, is also a way to help determine factory barrel boring from aftermarket so.

[Austin J Hawthorne Jr.]

Thanks Stan.
Still wondering if any Parker 16 and 20 gauges were over bored. Anyone?

[Dave Noreen]

I've had some early Ithaca NIDs that were over bored -- Super-10 .790", 12-gauge .744", 20-gauge .629" and 28-gauge .570". The NIDs I have that are from after the cocking indicators were dropped circa 1935 are right on industry specs. My sample is certainly not enough to be scientific. My 1910 NIG is actually a bit tight at .724".

Wonder what Uncle Bob Edwards secret was --

100169

[Russell E. Cleary]

Austin:

Your question is substantially the same as the one I asked in the "Parker Terms and Nomenclature" thread on 5-29-17:

"So, were the barrels of Parker guns of any gauge, including the 16, generally overbored as well as were the 12 and 10 during the brass shell era of production?

I ask this because in THE PARKER STORY (authors Gunther, Mullins, Parker, Price and Cote), page 517, the stock books are cited as noting the general discontinuance of over-boring in 12 and 10 gauge guns in the 1890s, but, nothing is said in that paragraph about other gauges."

There followed no more posts, thus is an unanswered question, on that thread, anyway.

[Mills Morrison]

I have several early 1890's Parker 12 gauges with overbored barrels. Some of the 10's may be too but I haven't checked them. Some of these are favorite shooters

[Dean Romig]

Without actual factory documentation it can be about impossible to know if a Parker, or any other make of shotgun, was actually overbored by the factory or if it had been honed or “overbored” after the fact.

This topic has been visited several times in the past.

This from a previous discussion.


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[Mills Morrison]

I should have added to my post that it is impossible to know if the bores were overbored by Parker or by someone else later. I think there are enough overbored Parkers from that era that it had to be the factory, but who knows. All I know is the ones I have sure perform well.

The factory records leave a lot of information to be desired.

[Dean Romig]

Through very precise measurement of the bore along the entire length of the barrel Richard Hoover could determine if it had been overbored by the Parker factory or by a third party.
Parker would overbore to a particular ID while overboring by someone else wasn’t as precise.
I don’t remember the IDs he said indicated factory work but he knew. At the spring southern more than ten years ago he was set up in the Parker/LCS tent and invited folks to bring their 12 and 10 gauge Parkers whose bores were oversize and he would measure them to determine if it was factory work or not.

The nominal ID of an 11 gauge is .751 and it is commonly said that Parker would overbore a 12 up to .750 and this is an area we need to be careful not to confuse the two. Of course Parker discontinues making the 11 gauge pretty early in the T/A hammer guns so generally speaking it is pretty easy to determine which is which. I have a chart around here someplace of all the known 11 gauge Parkers so we can determine how late the 11 gauge guns were produced.





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[Dave Noreen]

I find that the listing of special cartridges with oversize wads for Parker Bros. guns is a big clue. See Load No. 56 & 57.

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100176

[Dean Romig]

I found the chart of known 11 gauge Parkers and in fact, no known 11 gauge Parkers were made on the top-action hammer guns. And they effectively stopped making the 11 gauge in 1877.

If anyone would like a copy of this chart shoot me an email at dsromig@aol.com and I'll send it as an attachment in a reply email.

Also, "Parker Bores and Chambers" written by Austin Hogan but researched by Price, Hoover, Furnish and Hogan, can be found in Parker Pages, Vol. 18, Issue 4 (Fall 2011) for an explanation of many of the things being discussed here.

This is another good reason to contact Mike McKinney for a copy of the Parker Pages Digital Archive.






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[Mills Morrison]

That would make sense.

[Frank Srebro]

I have tapered reamers to open chokes and just recently did a VH 12 gauge Parker s/n 2218xx for a friend. I’ve done this work for a while now on many maker guns and can tell a factory bore by its uniformity and surface finish. Right bore on that Parker was .742” dia and choke .713” for 29 points of constriction = 3/4 choke (I-Mod). Left bore was .732 with choke .694” for 38 points = Full choke. Both bores and original chokes appeared “factory” to me. I’ve seen mismatched barrel bores occasionally and chalk it up to the maker wanting to salvage a barrel tube that was damaged during the bore finishing operation, and then the shop overbored to clean up the scratch, gouge, chatter marks or whatever. Just my take here gents.

[Craig Larter]

I own a CHE 12ga #3 frame that the factory letter states 2 7/8" chambers and made for #1 shot. It is over bored in both barrels to .740/.742 and chokes of .040. I believe the barrels were overbored so #1 shot patterned properly. Any opinions on my theory?? My other possible explanation is when the gun was returned to "take dents out of barrels", the factory polished the bores by .010 and recut the chokes.

[charlie cleveland]

that's a nice gun and I really like guns with long chambers....charlie