Powder and primers supplies scarce??

[Craig Larter]

A couple of months ago I was able to buy 5000 Cheddite primers and 4lbs. of Clay Dot. Now nothing locally or the big internet suppliers. Anyone else feeling the same. This lack of supplies seems worse than a year ago?? The powder suppliers claim they are running flat out but I never see anything available. What are you experiencing? I would buy just about any shotgun powder at this point but I haven't seen any Clays, Unique, or Red Dot for sale since 2019.

[Mike Koneski]

Major part of the problem is distribution. When there aren’t enough drivers and trucks and you have warehouses and shipping containers waiting to have product moved, that hurts us all. That isn’t only ammo and components, it’s building supplies, provisions, etc. This was all well orchestrated. Just sayin’.

[CraigThompson]

I got 5000 Chedditte same place you did . And another 6,000 I paid the super inflated price for on GB . A friend traded me an older unopened 12 pound keg of Red Dot so my 12 target loads are covered , I’ll also adapt Red Dot to my 16 gauge loads and almost forgot I’ve got a new unopened 8 of RD at home . My 10 gauge stuff I’ve got plenty SR7625 . For the 8’s I’ve got plenty Universal Clays . For the 20’s and 28’s I’ve got a pretty decent supply of Unique and most likely enough 296 to load the 410 until judgement day . I would however like a couple 8’s of Green Dot another 8 of Red Dot and perhaps two more 8’s of Unique and my worries would be solved for several years . I’m good on all wads as well . Since I have in and tried the red bean loads most of the card wads are no longer needed . Shot I seem to be burning thru , what I brought back from Rock Mountain is going away at a pretty decent clip . Now bear in mind when I say going away it’s being loaded and stacked with the rest of the stuff I have loaded . So while I’m keeping my eyes open for certain things I am not in a bind needing them for a good long while .

[Austin J Hawthorne Jr.]

There should be more people looking for work now that some of the government relief checks are ending or being reduced.

[Andrew Sacco]

Without a doubt worse than a few months ago. But I agree with Austin, once people get off their asses and see they have to get a job to feed their kids they will start working. We've been to Maine and N. Carolina on vacation, both places most restaurants are limping along
at 1/2 capacity because of lack of servers and lack of food due to no drivers and warehouse workers. I don't know about you, but I don't relish a 4 hour dinner while one server works the floor. I tip very heavily. I have to believe it will get better when people smarten up and work.

[Daryl Corona]

This situation will NEVER get better as long as the public is dumbed down and scared by the virus of the month.

[Mills Morrison]

It is a major problem. People who made fun of me for being a hoarder are mighty quiet these days

[Keith Sirmans]

It is a major problem. People who made fun of me for being a hoarder are mighty quiet these days

Better than being jerks for not selling any to them. That is what I experienced.

[Mills Morrison]

True that. Most of my friends who shoot a lot did the same thing. My cousin buys so much he probably gets put on a terror watch list

[Andrew Sacco]

Better than being jerks for not selling any to them. That is what I experienced.

Don't understand your post, sorry. Do you you mean you expected people to sell their "hoard" to you when you couldn't find it? I have friends with huge supplies (think half a million primers) and I just don't ask to buy it. They were way smarter than me. Godspeed to them, learned my lesson.

[Craig Larter]

I got up early to search GB and bought a 8 pounder of Red Dot for $250. plus $30. shipping and NY sales tax. The Ballistics Products current retail is $228. plus hazmat plus shipping plus NY sales tax. So I think I did OK and can use RD for 10 and 12ga.

[Gary Laudermilch]

A small local gun shop had Clays and Win WST last week.

[Frank Srebro]

Surely a regular and hot topic at the shooting clubs ..... hereabouts in PA lead shot (Spartan) is more or less available at one place at $40. per bag plus tax (5 bags max) whereas West Coast brand shot has dried up. Common Claybuster wads also available there but prices have gone up about 20%. Some shotgun powders are irregularly coming in and over recent weeks three friends bought 4 and 8 pounders of 700-X, American Select and Green Dot after getting desperate and making long road trips. Not their regular powders but they'll work. 209 primers on the other hand are virtually unobtainable and at least at one place are earmarked for the shop owner's friends and long time customers. Small quantities only. Last week another friend was ecstatic to get a brick (1000) of 209’s at $60. plus tax but not including the expense of a 50 mile road trip in his 4x4 pickup. I see the going rate on GB for a brick of 209 Cheddites seems to be $125. or so plus Hazmat. Econo 12 and some 20 gauge target shells can be had here and there but lowest prices seem to be about $90./flat plus tax.

Well in any case many saw these shortages coming 6-8 months ago and started buying components at then somewhat inflated pricing. And now despite repeated assurances that manufacturers are running balls to the wall it doesn't seem to be getting better but prices are going up and up. :whistle:

[Carvel Whaley]

I was talking to a gentlemen who is in charge of Winchester ammunition production the other day and his comment was, when asked when would primers be available was,“your guess is as good mine”. He led me to believe it would be one to two years before things would get going again if ever, and certainly more expensive when it does. Who knows. Carvel

[Brett Hoop]

I was told 6 months back by a longtime component dealer that he thought it was going to get worse before it got better.
Today Harold and I attended the fundraiser for Lawrence County Sportsman’s Youth Clays teams and also the Mahoning County Coonhunters festival near Canfield, OH. I didn’t see any shotgun primers for sale, there was a silent auction of 1K of Win 209 and 1K of Fed 209 A last I looked they were at $200 I am certain everyone there was hoping to help the fundraising, but there was still time left to write in so I don’t know what they actually brought.

Later at the festival I did notice an 8# of Universal with a $320 price tag. There was some Red dot also but didn’t catch the price.

[Craig Larter]

Hodgdon and Alliant claim to be running 24 hours per day. They also claim sales to ammo producers and the government are small parts of their business. I seems you would see powder occasionally for sale at this point in the shortage, very strange.

[Brian Dudley]

I have a line to be able to buy just about 5,000 CCI primers from someone I know locally. I do not need them, for me it would be to resell. I have been hearing about the stupid prices that people pay for primers and figured it would be no problem making a few bucks on them. But when I started asking around to gauge need, I could not find anyone willing to pay over $50/thousand locally. Everyone has been able to get them out of BP for around that price delivered. They may have to wait for them, but they do get them.

A month back I bought a 1 car garage full of reloading stuff. Mostly various wads and hulls. There was some shot. And 2 P/W 800 loading machines in 12g. And a little bit of powder. Sadly next to no primers. I had no problem moving the powder and shot quickly.

[Pete Lester]

I think things got worse if that was possible.

I was at KTP this week for the big event of the year, Septemberfest. I thought they might have been holding some things back and would put them out for it. Didn't happen. They have had plenty of 9mm and 5.56 at higher prices but shotgun ammo and components extremely thin, emphasis on extremely. One manager I have known for years told me they recently had a one million dollar backorder cancelled and the supplier said we don't know when we would be able to fill it. They had a flash ammo sale this past Friday and they had some Winchester Fast Dove in 12 ga for 8.99 a box if I remember right. A 1 ounce loading at 1350 fps, no thanks.

The local Walmarts have started to move non shooting related products to the shelves where ammo used to be.

Major Waldron's gun club is still selling loading ammo but only for what you are going to use (no taking it home), they just recently increased prices for it to $10 a box for 12 and 20 gauge.

I think if supply is going to catch up it would have to happen during the winter when hunting season is over and not as many clay pigeons are being thrown. If we go into March '22 with things still in short supply I believe '22 will be another very dry year for us.

[Brian Dudley]

Another point about pricing is this, of course there are those that outright gouge. But when people complain about the pricing at local gun shops and such, the thing that many do not take into account is what the shop had to pay for the inventory. And they have to make money on it. Many I know of have had their normal supply chains completely dry up. So they have to get inventory from wherever they can get it, from walk-in buys usually. Many dealers are paying what used to be normal retail so that they can have something on their shelves.

It is truly feast or famine in this business. Usually famine.

[Pete Lester]

Another point about pricing is this, of course there are those that outright gouge. But when people complain about the pricing at local gun shops and such, the thing that many do not take into account is what the shop had to pay for the inventory. And they have to make money on it. Many I know of have had their normal supply chains completely dry up. So they have to get inventory from wherever they can get it, from walk-in buys usually. Many dealers are paying what used to be normal retail so that they can have something on their shelves.

It is truly feast or famine in this business. Usually famine.

Same with Toyota 4x4's, many of the used one's at the dealer are priced higher than the MSRP for a new one on the Toyota website. Word on the street is new ones start at $2500 over MSRP and go up from there if they can find one.

[Andrew Sacco]

Same with Toyota 4x4's, many of the used one's at the dealer are priced higher than the MSRP for a new one on the Toyota website. Word on the street is new ones start at $2500 over MSRP and go up from there if they can find one.

I bought a Toyota TRD Pro 4 Runner last year, sticker was something like $53,500. They gave it to me for several grand off the sticker, plus gave me $16,000 on a 300,000 mile BASE model Tundra that I paid $18,000 for 8 years ago, used. They called me last month and offered me $53,500 for my 26,000 mile TRD 4 Runner. What? This world is $!#*! nuts. I said, "Well then I have nothing to drive," to which they said, "We have a nice used Prius you can buy..." :rotf::rotf:

[Brian Dudley]

Speaking of Toyota trucks… If anyone is wanting a Toyota Tacoma 4x4 TRD package, my brother has a 2018 or 2019 (I cannot recall) with only 4,000 miles on it!
He bought it new and 6 months later got a job with a company vehicle. So every since it has just sat in his garage. He would sell it if the price is right. He is in Hartford, CT.

[Mike Koneski]

Speaking of Toyota trucks… If anyone is wanting a Toyota Tacoma 4x4 TRD package, my brother has a 2018 or 2019 (I cannot recall) with only 4,000 miles on it!
He bought it new and 6 months later got a job with a company vehicle. So every since it has just sat in his garage. He would sell it if the price is right. He is in Hartford, CT.


I’ll trade him 5K primers and an 8 lb of PB!!! :rotf:

[John Dallas]

I think all components will be short for a long while. The manufacturers can make more money selling completed shells than simple components.

[James L. Martin]

Went to 2 gun shows this weekend. One had no 209 primers at all, the other had 1 sleeve of a 100 primers for $15.00. Almost no powder and very little shotgun shells. I was lucky and got 8 boxes of 20ga Winchester AA 7/8oz 7 1/2 for $70.00.

[Matt Buckley]

I was lucky to run into a 1000 primer box of Winchester 209's and a pound of universal and AA Super Handicap at a local gun shop. That is the maximum I could purchase for the day, 2lbs of powder and I brick of primers.

[Pete Lester]

Who ever thought it would come to this? Just posted to Facebook

RST is at Hausmann Hidden Hollows Sporting Clays.
35m · Friendsville, PA ·
Thank you to the Vintage Gunners for providing powder so we could load shells for the SxS Championship this week. There is a limited supply, so we will have a limit of 3 boxes of shells to make it fair.
Hope to see a lot of you there.

[Mills Morrison]

Geez . . . .

[Jim McKee]

Attended the Ohio Gun Collectors show on Sunday.
Found a small increase in powders for sale- but no shotgun powders.
The primers (rifle and pistol) were about $125.00-150.00 per 1000
Showing a small decrease from the July show of $200.00 per 1000

[Pete Lester]

I noticed this morning that Precision Reloading has recently reset their prices on 209 primers (all of which are currently out of stock), $70 to $86 per 1000 plus shipping and hazmat. It's a safe bet shooting and reloading will be quite a bit more expensive in the future.

[Mike Koneski]

I think as supply eventually balances out demand we will see a decrease in the costs of components and factory ammo. It’ll never go back to pre-shortage levels but it will decrease. Most of the shortage is from the diminished supply chain and not from a manufacturing slowdown.

[Brian Dudley]

Who ever thought it would come to this? Just posted to Facebook

RST is at Hausmann Hidden Hollows Sporting Clays.
35m · Friendsville, PA ·
Thank you to the Vintage Gunners for providing powder so we could load shells for the SxS Championship this week. There is a limited supply, so we will have a limit of 3 boxes of shells to make it fair.
Hope to see a lot of you there.



When I spoke to Morris at Rock Mountain he said that Powder was their issue. They cannot get it from anywhere, even overseas. He said that some of their larger Texas ranch and game preserve customers were dipping into their hoards and sending them powder so that they could load shells to sell them.

So, the above for the VGC goes right in line with this scenario.

[Pete Lester]

When I spoke to Morris at Rock Mountain he said that Powder was their issue. They cannot get it from anywhere, even overseas. He said that some of their larger Texas ranch and game preserve customers were dipping into their hoards and sending them powder so that they could load shells to sell them.

So, the above for the VGC goes right in line with this scenario.

A sad state of affairs with no apparent end in sight Brian. The RST rep told me the same thing at Hausmann's in June, powder was their issue, no problem getting primers because they were getting primed hulls directly from Cheddite.

[Mills Morrison]

It seems like we are in a cycle of going through these shortages every few years. It is inconvenient for us, but I worry most about the small suppliers like RST

[Daniel Carter]

A sad state of affairs with no apparent end in sight Brian. The RST rep told me the same thing at Hausmann's in June, powder was their issue, no problem getting primers because they were getting primed hulls directly from Cheddite.

If the powder manufacturer is working at capacity and supply chain is the problem then there must be a stuffed warehouse waiting on a truck to a distributer.
If so must Mr. Baker wait on the distributer or can he send his truck to the makers warehouse? The whole situation is baffling if all involved are telling the truth then a hell of a lot of product is in limbo and that means a lot of money from sales not made. This unrealized income has to be hurting all involved and it seems to have spread beyond the shooting sports to most of the economy.
I have no answer just a lot of questions as to why these products, if made can not be forwarded to the end user. Ammo makers want to sell the product to make a profit and i would think if i were in that situation i would find a way.

[Andrew Sacco]

If the powder manufacturer is working at capacity and supply chain is the problem then there must be a stuffed warehouse waiting on a truck to a distributer.
If so must Mr. Baker wait on the distributer or can he send his truck to the makers warehouse? The whole situation is baffling if all involved are telling the truth then a hell of a lot of product is in limbo and that means a lot of money from sales not made. This unrealized income has to be hurting all involved and it seems to have spread beyond the shooting sports to most of the economy.
I have no answer just a lot of questions as to why these products, if made can not be forwarded to the end user. Ammo makers want to sell the product to make a profit and i would think if i were in that situation i would find a way.

I didn't understand Mike's comment either. I would assume trucking/transport is a big issue, as are warehouse workers. Although I can't stand Dicks Sporting Goods, they were born here in Binghamton, NY and they built a bajillion square foot distribution center here and can't move product out of here for lack of warehouse workers, forklift drivers and truckers. Likewise they can't bring all the product in to distribute. There are more recreational shooters than golfers, and we added 9 million NEW gun owners last year. Were you to add 9 million more golfers (God help us..) they would have to build 10,000 more golf courses, so there are some big supply/manufacturing issues too. This data was from another thread on here from the NSSA, somewhere, can't find it.

[Craig Larter]

I can understand primers going to the ammo factories and being prioritized before the reloading market. What puzzles me are Hodgdon and Alliant. They claim to only service reloading. Lead shot and plastic wads are plentiful why not powder. The only thing i can think of is the powder feed stocks are the supply problem, maybe nitrocellulose comes from China like about everything else.

[Frank Srebro]

I can understand primers going to the ammo factories and being prioritized before the reloading market. What puzzles me are Hodgdon and Alliant. They claim to only service reloading. Lead shot and plastic wads are plentiful why not powder. The only thing i can think of is the powder feed stocks are the supply problem, maybe nitrocellulose comes from China like about everything else.

Craig, check the MSDS for a few favorite powders and you’ll find they have small quantities of anti-sour stabilizers, burn deterrents, non-clump coatings and other ingredients, and many of those additives are far more “exotic” than NC or NG. Disruption in supply of any of those ingredients will stall production of that powder.

[Pete Lester]

It is now 7 months later and this remains the latest news from Hodgdon on the powder shortage. A few things stuck out for me. They mention all the new gun owners being part of the extraordinary demand for powder then they go on to say that selling powder to ammo manufacturers is just a small part of their business. Which is it? Did all those new gun owners start reloading as well?

They go on to say that normal demand for powder would not be enough to support an expansion of their production facilities. How long and how much longer will there a severe shortage? With all the new guns and shooters is the old normal demand still a viable measure?

They say they shipped a record amount in 2020 and plan to ship even more in 2021. If so why does it hardly ever show up on shelves, why are decent size gun stores with empty shelves saying they have long standing and huge back orders and having back orders cancelled?

This is a link from the home page of Hodgdon Powder that I am referencing. "Where is the Powder"

https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/hodgdon_social_powder_update-ver6-1.pdf

https://hodgdon.com/

[Victor Wasylyna]

Today I paid $13 for a dozen wings (on wing night). Why is the chicken becoming an endangered species? Perhaps I should stop hoarding reloading components and start reading Ayn Rand and Milton Friedman.

-Victor

[Andrew Sacco]

Today I paid $13 for a dozen wings (on wing night). Why is the chicken becoming an endangered species? Perhaps I should stop hoarding reloading components and start reading Ayn Rand and Milton Friedman.

-Victor

No, you need to start raising chickens Victor

[Tom Pellegrini]

WOW!! Who do you believe? On the internet, which we all know is the truth, a google search brings up questions. Why is there a powder shortage? The powder manufacturers say that the "shooters" are hoarding all the powder. The dealers are saying all the components are going to the shell manufacturers. And around and around we go.

[Mills Morrison]

Ask the "fact checkers" and believe the opposite of what they say.

[Frank Srebro]

My wife and I were traveling today and we made a short detour to a large reloading place. I have a good supply of components on hand but wanted to balance out with another brick of Cheddite 209's I have coming. The place didn't have any familiar shotgun powders in stock except for some oddballs in 1 pound bottles and very few of those. I did however get another case (5000) of 12 gauge Claybuster 7/8 ounce wads, and ten bags of Spartan high antimony 7-1/2 shot. Spartan is made in Spain and RST has started to use it of late. Spartan was priced at $38.95 and some limited West Coast Magnum was in stock at $48.95. Five bag limit/person on either. Then on the way home we stopped at a friend's shop and scored 8 pounds of Alliant E3 - one of my favorite powders - and a 1 pounder of Clay Dot. Both were in the "back room" so to speak, nothing but some random pistol powders on the shelf. A good day! JFI, no 209 primers at either place.

[Mike Koneski]

Today I paid $13 for a dozen wings (on wing night). Why is the chicken becoming an endangered species? Perhaps I should stop hoarding reloading components and start reading Ayn Rand and Milton Friedman.

-Victor

Lack of people to process the chickens has led to increased cost and less availability.

[CraigThompson]

WOW!! Who do you believe? On the internet, which we all know is the truth, a google search brings up questions. Why is there a powder shortage? The powder manufacturers say that the "shooters" are hoarding all the powder. The dealers are saying all the components are going to the shell manufacturers. And around and around we go.

Well one things for sure , many folks myself included started laying in supplies when that Obamite was you guys so called president (he was never mine) , and I never stopped plain and simple .

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Construction Co's are hurting also, maybe we will see some coming back since free money has some what stopped, we are paying people to not work under the guise of a Pandemic, Gary

[CraigThompson]

I was at my local sporting clays course yesterday . I wanted to get 10-12 bags of 7 1/2’s from him even though he’s about $5 a bag higher than Mikey was . Anyway my friend has NO shot , NO primers and NO powder . He does however have a few CB wads of which I’m pretty well stocked up . Primers I’m good , wads I’m good , powder I’m good although a couple 8’s of Unique and a couple 8’s of GD would be nice . Shot I’m okay but another twenty bags of 7 1/2’s would make me all warm and fuzzy again :rotf::rotf::rotf:

[Craig Larter]

So I just bought at retail prices two 4's (from a national distributor) and two 14oz bottles of clays from a friend locally.. Lead has not been an issue locally. Clay Buster seems to have a reliable supply. Another 5K of Cheddites arrive tomorrow from BP. I've spent $5300 on pistol and shotgun reloading components so far in 2021. Should be good for a year or so. I do need a 4 of Unique which still seems very scarce. PM me if you see any unique for sale at retail price.

[Peter A Van Tassell]

I do need a 4 of Unique which still seems very scarce. PM me if you see any unique for sale at retail price.

You too...:crying:
I plan to hoard Unique when it finally becomes available again.
It seems I picked a *very* bad time to get back into clays... or anything else for that matter. Last time around was in 1986, and I am completely stunned at how different things are today... and not in a good way.

BTW Craig, greetings from NF/Buffalo!

[CraigThompson]

You too...:crying:
I plan to hoard Unique when it finally becomes available again.
It seems I picked a *very* bad time to get back into clays... or anything else for that matter. Last time around was in 1986, and I am completely stunned at how different things are today... and not in a good way.

BTW Craig, greetings from NF/Buffalo!

As to the hoarding I wish I had been in a position to get 6-10 8 pounders of SR7625 and perhaps 5 or 6 eights’s of SR4756 .

[Daryl Corona]

Been a good week so far. 5k primers arrived via the pony express, found an unopened 8lb can of 4756 and just scored 2lb Clays and 1lb of 20/28 to go with the 7lb jug I got in a gun deal at Rock Mountain. This should be in the 2021 buy/sell thread but it is directly related to the 20/28 powder as I will be shooting much more 28 gauge than I normally do because I lucked in to a lovely little Perazzi MX28. This gun will take the pressure off my two Parkers.

[CraigThompson]

Been a good week so far. 5k primers arrived via the pony express, found an unopened 8lb can of 4756 and just scored 2lb Clays and 1lb of 20/28 to go with the 7lb jug I got in a gun deal at Rock Mountain. This should be in the 2021 buy/sell thread but it is directly related to the 20/28 powder as I will be shooting much more 28 gauge than I normally do because I lucked in to a lovely little Perazzi MX28. This gun will take the pressure off my two Parkers.

So now you can let that old beater VHE 28 30” go :rotf::rotf: All BS aside I’d be intrested to see the Perazzi ! While I don’t hold it in as high regard as a Perazzi or Krieghoff we had a Beretta 687EELL two barrel 20/28 set slide they the ship a couple months ago . I’d liked to have had that , but it was in for a good cleaning and to change springs and firing pins .

[Daryl Corona]

Sorry Craig, the VHE 28 is staying with me for a while but you're welcome to shoot it whenever we get together.

The Perazzi is built on, what they call, a baby frame. You can kind of compare it to a OO frame. Absolutely the finest gun that I own at this point.

Sending you a PM re: release shoots at FMR.

[Frank Srebro]

Daryl, speaking of Alliant 20/28 powder, an 8 pound jug just sold on Gunbroker for $595. + $50. shipping + Buyer's state sales tax + 1% GB "compliance fee". Brisk bidding with 25 bidders. Let's say the Buyer lives here in PA where the state sales tax is 6%. That would make the total price: $690. for 8 pounds. :eek:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/912261632

[Peter A Van Tassell]

Daryl, speaking of Alliant 20/28 powder, an 8 pound jug just sold on Gunbroker for $595. + $50. shipping + Buyer's state sales tax + 1% GB "compliance fee". Brisk bidding with 25 bidders. Let's say the Buyer lives here in PA where the state sales tax is 6%. That would make the total price: $690. for 8 pounds. :eek:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/912261632

I went looking for Unique on GB a few hours ago, saw a couple 4-pounders asking around $400 for them :eek::eek: ... NOPE! Even if I had the money I won't pay scalpers prices. :cuss: They had zero bids.

[Daryl Corona]

Daryl, speaking of Alliant 20/28 powder, an 8 pound jug just sold on Gunbroker for $595. + $50. shipping + Buyer's state sales tax + 1% GB "compliance fee". Brisk bidding with 25 bidders. Let's say the Buyer lives here in PA where the state sales tax is 6%. That would make the total price: $690. for 8 pounds. :eek:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/912261632

That's unbelievable that someone would need it that bad. I found these on a shelf with rifle powders and all of them were priced at 2019 prices. I believe that if someone lives in a remote area with few outlets selling components than maybe he feels justified paying those prices.

[CraigThompson]

Sorry Craig, the VHE 28 is staying with me for a while but you're welcome to shoot it whenever we get together.

The Perazzi is built on, what they call, a baby frame. You can kind of compare it to a OO frame. Absolutely the finest gun that I own at this point.

Sending you a PM re: release shoots at FMR.

So the Perazzi frame is smaller than the K-20 frame which I like quite a bit . The 687EELL we had at the shop was just a 20 gauge frame be it from back in the 90’s . I like the long barreled 10’s and 12’s on the 3 and 2 frames , however over a weekend with several hundred targets I’m finding once I get tired my 0 frame 20 and 28 are a relief to shoot . I’d like to find a 32” 20 on a 1 frame but I’d be almost as happy with one on an 0 frame just like I’d be happy with a 30” or 32” 28 on an 0 frame .

[Frank Srebro]

I went looking for Unique on GB a few hours ago, saw a couple 4-pounders asking around $400 for them :eek::eek: ... NOPE! Even if I had the money I won't pay scalpers prices. :cuss: They had zero bids.

Yah that's way out of wack and I'd never even consider buying at that price level, but "scalper" is a broad term and can cover a wide range of pricings. If I think back 8 months or so there were so many guys with cavalier comments and posts how they'd never pay what were then premium prices and calling the sellers: scalpers. Much the same fellas who are now scrounging for primers, powder and to a lesser extent, shot. Also some are imposing on their grasshopper friends to help them out (Aesop's Fable analogy). Prices have gone up, period. And those who shoot are facing the reality that prices of components and shotgun ammo will never come back down to let's say 2019 levels, same progression as happened with 2015 prices, etc. For example I'm finishing up a sleeve (5000) of Cheddite 209's I dated 2015 and $109.00 price paid plus 6% sales tax. Nowadays many are HAPPY to pay $190. for a sleeve of Cheddite 209's from one of the large on-line distributors, plus Hazmat, shipping and sales tax. Works out to about $250./sleeve for me here in PA.

[Pete Lester]

Yah that's way out of wack and I'd never even consider buying at that price level, but "scalper" is a broad term and can cover a wide range of pricings. If I think back 8 months or so there were so many guys with cavalier comments and posts how they'd never pay what were then premium prices and calling the sellers: scalpers. Much the same fellas who are now scrounging for primers, powder and to a lesser extent, shot. Also some are imposing on their grasshopper friends to help them out (Aesop's Fable analogy). Prices have gone up, period. And those who shoot are facing the reality that prices of components and shotgun ammo will never come back down to let's say 2019 levels, same progression as happened with 2015 prices, etc. For example I'm finishing up a sleeve (5000) of Cheddite 209's I dated 2015 and $109.00 price paid plus 6% sales tax. Nowadays many are HAPPY to pay $190. for a sleeve of Cheddite 209's from one of the large on-line distributors, plus Hazmat, shipping and sales tax. Works out to about $250./sleeve for me here in PA.

I think this time it's different and worse, inflation of most of what we all consume was not present during the last shortages of ammunition and components. This shortage has gone on longer and more wide spread than previous shortages and economic inflation is a factor, todays prices may look like bargains in the future.

[John Dallas]

To rub salt in the wound .... After 15-20,000 shells, I just sent my 800 Plus loader back to PW for a tune up. $75 shipping. Will be another $75 shipping coming back, plus PW's charges. Suddenly, $50 shot doesn't seem so bad

[Gary Laudermilch]

My Mec 9000 had 100k on it before I made the first repair. The stage advance cylinder leaked. It is now at about 150k and has needed a few more tweaks but what really amazes me is that it still has the original wad fingers. All of the repairs did not exceed $75

[Pete Lester]

To rub salt in the wound .... After 15-20,000 shells, I just sent my 800 Plus loader back to PW for a tune up. $75 shipping. Will be another $75 shipping coming back, plus PW's charges. Suddenly, $50 shot doesn't seem so bad

Kittery Trading Post got some West Coast shot in last week, only $76.99 a bag :eek:

[CraigThompson]

My Mec 9000 had 100k on it before I made the first repair. The stage advance cylinder leaked. It is now at about 150k and has needed a few more tweaks but what really amazes me is that it still has the original wad fingers. All of the repairs did not exceed $75

I’d much rather have PW progressives for everything from the 10 to the 410 , however I can’t find them on the used market as economically as the Rube Goldberg 9000’s of which I have them for all gauges 12 to 410 and hence the reason I have backup 9000’s in 12 and 28 . As well as back up Grabbers in 20, 28 and 410 as well as a back up 650 in 16 . It goes without saying I have way way more than even the advanced shooter/Reloader needs . However when you get them reasonably it’s a rather inexpensive insurance policy for someone that quite often gets in a hurry and doesn’t like breaking down in the middle and needing to work on something. This way if one gives me a problem two thumb screws pick it up and change for another .

[Frank Srebro]

I’d much rather have PW progressives for everything from the 10 to the 410 , however I can’t find them on the used market as economically as the Rube Goldberg 9000’s of which I have them for all gauges 12 to 410 and hence the reason I have backup 9000’s in 12 and 28 . As well as back up Grabbers in 20, 28 and 410 as well as a back up 650 in 16 . It goes without saying I have way way more than even the advanced shooter/Reloader needs . However when you get them reasonably it’s a rather inexpensive insurance policy for someone that quite often gets in a hurry and doesn’t like breaking down in the middle and needing to work on something. This way if one gives me a problem two thumb screws pick it up and change for another .

MEC 9000's have worked just fine for me (12 and 20 gauge) though my 12 is tired having loaded > 60 thousand rounds since I bought that one about 12 years ago. A friend kept tellin me how P-W's are the Cadillac (his term) and I tried to buy one earlier this year direct from P-W but found that company to be all promises but ongoing excuses on its delivery commitment. Cancelled that order and ordered another MEC 9000/12 direct from MEC, which beat its shipment promise by a week or so. Now that 12 year old 9000 is my backup, not that I should need it. Just an aside, my friend with P-W's in several gauges has many duds and bloopers; no doubt "operator error" as I'm sure the P-W's are properly designed. Not sure how that happens to a gent who's shot trap and loaded shotshells for over four decades. Weird.

[Gary Laudermilch]

Stopped by a small shop today just to snoop. Nobel Sport primers for $150 per thousand. Yea, right!

[CraigThompson]

Stopped by a small shop today just to snoop. Nobel Sport primers for $150 per thousand. Yea, right!

We had a good customer bring to sleeves of Nobel 209’s in about three weeks ago . Asked us to start them at $200 a 5,000 sleeve . Put them on GB and the two sleeves brought a few dollars shy of a grand . That’s just about $100@1000 and I thought that was crazy .

[allen newell]

I paid $62/box for 2000 shotshell 209 primers. Outback Arms in Plympton, Mass. just received a very large shipment of lead shot (#8 and 9's I believe).

[Craig Larter]

Thanks to a PGCA member I was able to purchase a 8 pounder of Unique at retail. Now I'm set on supplies for a couple of years or more. A sincere thanks to all that PM`d me over the last year with tips on in stock items and others that traded needed items for my surplus items. Great brotherhood looking out to assist each other. Craig Larter

[Peter A Van Tassell]

Thanks to a PGCA member I was able to purchase a 8 pounder of Unique at retail. Now I'm set on supplies for a couple of years or more. A sincere thanks to all that PM`d me over the last year with tips on in stock items and others that traded needed items for my surplus items. Great brotherhood looking out to assist each other. Craig Larter

Congratulations! Hope 8 lbs will last you a while :)
I'm in the market for Unique also, at some point in the next 10 months
Just in case anyone hears of any. Can drive to Ohio or PA if need be.
Can't do anything right now, medical bills first.

[Frank Srebro]

Just for info, I talked with a friend in the industry today about powder and he told me it's not well known but THERE IS A SHORTAGE of nitrocellulose, the primary ingredient (percentage-wise) in modern smokeless powders. That's because an alternate industry that had been using limited NC has ramped up production over recent months and the few NC manufacturers have limited production capacity. Net, powder shortages will continue for the foreseeable future. Buy it when you can .....

[Peter A Van Tassell]

Just for info, I talked with a friend in the industry today about powder and he told me it's not well known but THERE IS A SHORTAGE of nitrocellulose, the primary ingredient (percentage-wise) in modern smokeless powders. That's because an alternate industry that had been using limited NC has ramped up production over recent months and the few NC manufacturers have limited production capacity. Net, powder shortages will continue for the foreseeable future. Buy it when you can .....

I really do wonder what that alternate industry might be, now that it has such a sudden demand. Particularly keeping the shipping disruptions and international trade in mind.

[Frank Srebro]

Just trying to pass some inside info to members. What alternate industry that is, is irrelevant to those who are trying to find and buy reloading powders. Peter, you can accept that info or if in doubt, do your own research to confirm/deny the increase in NC demand and please let us know what you find out from your source(s). Those who have studied organic chemistry will know that cellulose can be nitrated to a wide range of % nitrogen for products with different end uses.

[Peter A Van Tassell]

Those who have studied organic chemistry will know that cellulose can be nitrated to a wide range of % nitrogen for products with different end uses.

The only thing that comes immediately to mind is plastics, but I'm not aware of any real upheavals in that sector lately. Certainly not on a scale that would impact other users. (I do heavy industrial maintenance for a living, so I'm not far from industry in general).

I also know that I've heard a lot of different reasons from all over the place, none of which I am able to verify independently. And of course, I don't particularly trust the government NOR the "official" sources of info either.