Ithaca Lewis Model

[Dave Noreen]

Anyone have any idea what these numbers under the extractor on a Lewis Model Ithaca mean?

99053

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Boy, if you are asking us, it really must be a mystery. That's the kind of question we would ask you, ie, I am clueless. Barrels look a little rough, hope they clean up.

[Chris Robenalt]

They could be chokes. A "3" was IM. Could also be the number of the person that inspected the barrel. Alot of the numbers are a mystery. Although most barrel marks should be on the flats or just in front of them.

Chris, AZ

[jefferyconnor]

A guess: Maybe they are the last two digits of pellet counts, like how Rem. 1894s are stamped?

[Phillip Carr]

Jeffery I thought the same thing. That’s how my Remington DEO’s are marked. Only they are marked on the barrel flats.

[Dave Noreen]

The gun was posted on shotgunworld.com and I certainly didn't know an answer, so I brought it over here. A lot more shotgun knowledge on the PGCA site than other boards around the internet. When it comes to Ithaca doubles I'm primarily an NID guy. From what I've observed Ithaca started their zero to four choke markings on the front of the barrel flats at about 200000 in the Flues era. Sometimes they marked the chokes as a fraction --

99115

but usually just the numerator --

99116

I haven't spent any time looking under the extractors/ejectors of earlier Ithaca doubles, so don't know if others have numbers stamped there. I kind of like the idea of Remington like pellet count but taking the extractor out and stamping a number after you've fired the gun and counted the pattern seems pretty labor intensive.

[jefferyconnor]

Another guess: How about the chokes in thousandths?

[Keith Sirmans]

Do you know John Eurom to ask him?

[Keith Sirmans]

Where is it on shotgunworld?

[Dave Noreen]

https://www.shotgunworld.com/threads/please-help-me-identify-my-ithaca-lewis-db-shotgun.537374/#post-4575824

[Keith Sirmans]

Thanks!

[John Eurom]

Dave, when time allows I will sift through Walts book and see if there is any mention of those stamps. I will also hava a look at my examples of Crass, Lewis, Minier models.

John

I just got home(11:30PM EST). I pulled numerous Ithaca doubles(Crass, Lewis, Minier, & Flues) from the rack. Serial numbers ranged from Crass #37xxx through Flues 377xxx. All Flues models with a choke designation stamped on the barrel flats have no stamps under the extractor. All models (Crass-Flues) with no choke designation have numbers under the extractor. The last Flues I have without choke marks is 1879xx, the first with marks(4/4 &4/4) is 202xxx.

That said, I can not make any correlation between these numbers and anything relative to chokes. Some of the guns are four digits with two on the left and two on the right. Others are three digits with two left and one right. One gun has two left but only one on the right. NIG 487xx has four digits, all on the left. I believe there is more study to be done.

During this exercise of observation I also noticed several of the barrel lugs were also stamped on the rear face of the lug with an X or R. There is much yet to decipher.

John

[jefferyconnor]

Dave, when time allows I will sift through Walts book and see if there is any mention of those stamps. I will also hava a look at my examples of Crass, Lewis, Minier models.

John

I just got home(11:30PM EST). I pulled numerous Ithaca doubles(Crass, Lewis, Minier, & Flues) from the rack. Serial numbers ranged from Crass #37xxx through Flues 377xxx. All Flues models with a choke designation stamped on the barrel flats have no stamps under the extractor. All models (Crass-Flues) with no choke designation have numbers under the extractor. The last Flues I have without choke marks is 1879xx, the first with marks(4/4 &4/4) is 202xxx.

That said, I can not make any correlation between these numbers and anything relative to chokes. Some of the guns are four digits with two on the left and two on the right. Others are three digits with two left and one right. One gun has two left but only one on the right. NIG 487xx has four digits, all on the left. I believe there is more study to be done.

During this exercise of observation I also noticed several of the barrel lugs were also stamped on the rear face of the lug with an X or R. There is much yet to decipher.

John

John, do any of your numbers seen possibly correspond to abbreviated pellet counts or choke constrictions, or, are they random?

[John Eurom]

John, do any of your numbers seen possibly correspond to abbreviated pellet counts or choke constrictions, or, are they random?

Jeffery,

While looking, they seemed random. Time permitting, I will examine them again and post a report of the actual numbers by Ser# and Model.

I have approx. 50 Ithaca SxS models from 1883- 1942

John

[Daryl Hallquist]

For what it is worth, I have a Grade 5 Crass in the 30,000 serial range. It has no stamps behind the extractor and has no choke markings on the barrel flats. Only marks on the barrel flats are the serial number.

[Stan Hoover]

Dave,
Thanks for bringing these #’s to light, I was unaware of these #’s and went looking on a few of my guns. I found 4 different guns with #’s under the extractors, non on ejector guns. 2 of these are Lewis guns, 1 is the Minier model, and 1 is a 1st year Flues guns.

#1 photo Is Lewis, 62,000 range. This would seem to almost signify it was produced in 1892, but it is 1902 gun?

#2 photo is Lewis, 63,000 range. This is a 1902 gun also, these marks almost seem to signify choke markings by the 3 and 2, but why the small o?

#3 photo is Flues 180,000 range. This is 1908 gun, 1st year Flues, these marks more closely resemble the way the gun pictured by you is showing Dave.

So this shows 3 somewhat different styles of marking them, what they represent I'm not sure, would be fun to figure it out.
I gave Walt Snyder a call yesterday, he of course knew what I was talking about but said he never was able to find or discover what these #'s represent.

[John Eurom]

Gentlemen,

After looking at 32 Ithaca doubles I can say, I believe the Riddle is solved. Some time around the start of the 3rd type Crass frame, these stamps began appearing on both hammerless and NIG models. All my examples from 346xx (Crass) through 1879xx (Flues) has these stamps. It was not until I looked at the underside of the extractor itself that it clicked.

Answer solved,

John

[Stan Hoover]

John,
just so I'm understanding, are you saying these numbers were only for matching barrels to extractors?
Thanks,
Stan Hoover

PS: I'll have to look at my Crass models again, I didn't think any of them had these marks.

[John Eurom]

John,
just so I'm understanding, are you saying these numbers were only for matching barrels to extractors?
Thanks,
Stan Hoover

Stan, Yes, I believe them to be assembly numbers used to pair the extractors to the barrel sets.

There is another observation made during this examination. By ser# 240xx (type 1 Crass) and #277xx (type 2 Crass), the complete serial number is stamped on the extractor.

John

[Daryl Hallquist]

John, good work. Just to be sure, I rechecked my Grade 5, 30,500 serial range Ithaca Crass 12 ga. I removed the extractor and found no marks on the barrel behind the extractor, nor were there any marks on the inside of the extractor or on the outside of the extractor.

[John Eurom]

John, good work. Just to be sure, I rechecked my Grade 5, 30,500 serial range Ithaca Crass 12 ga. I removed the extractor and found no marks on the barrel behind the extractor, nor were there any marks on the inside of the extractor or on the outside of the extractor.

Daryl, this is just speculation on my part. I believe the assembly procedure ( and maybe area worked) was changing as the models and production numbers increased. Thus a need to keep parts paired up. We know the higher Quality (Grades) guns were segregated in ser# lots and given special attention, so that "may" be why no extractor stamps are found on your Quality 5. I do not have any examples higher than Qlty 3.

John

[Bruce Hering]

EDIT: Delete, way off the mark. Sorry.