Fiber Wads and Smokeless Powder for Short 10 Gauge

[Alex Dawes]

I've been reading through my manuals and some threads here and on a few other sites without much luck. Does anyone know of any data existing for the short 10 and fiber wads using WSF or Red Dot? One of my Ballistic Products manuals has data for 12 gauge loads using brass and plastic hulls with Red Dot and fiber, but has nothing for 10 gauge. If I can't find anything I might start there and work up a bit or if worse comes to worst, I'll just stick with BP for awhile.

I have a few pounds of Red Dot and some WSF laying around, but no plastic wads for 10 gauge which is why I'm contemplating this route if it's been accomplished recently. I know it's possible since fiber was used for years with other smokeless powders, but I'd love to not reinvent the wheel if someone else has dabbled in this. Thanks!

[charlie cleveland]

look at pete lesters 10 ga loading sheet posted here....charlie

[Alex Dawes]

look at pete lesters 10 ga loading sheet posted here....charlie

I did and the couple in there list 31 grains of Red Dot with card wad OP with filler. That's seems like a pretty stiff charge since most of the target loads I see on here are around 20 grains if loaded with a plastic wad. I was nervous about a load with 150% charge since I was under the impression fiber wads loaded with exact charges typically only drop 1000 PSI or so. Am I crazy for thinking this or should I just use the loads as listed? Thanks! I do apologize. I'm a newby to 10 gauge smokeless reloading. I've been using black powder up to this point.

[Alex Dawes]

look at pete lesters 10 ga loading sheet posted here....charlie

Looking at these loads with pressure data is what gave me pause with the 31 grain figure:

http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22015

[CraigThompson]

I realize it isn’t fiber wads but I use 18.6 of Red Dot with the SP-10 with two 16 ga 1/8” nitro wads in the bottom of the cup and 1 1/8 ounces of shot . Not saying to go out and buy SP-10 wads but you oughtta be able to adapt it some sort of way as it’s quite lite in my opinion .

[William Davis]

I use a similar load to 6pts . 19 Red dot 16 G fibers inside SP10 wad. 1 1/8 oz shot. Fine target load for short 10. Have used 1 oz with thicker fibers.

When loading “off the Charts” short 10 or 16 G I make a spread sheet with various recommended loads. Comparing you will find a few that don’t make good sense. Individually not obvious sorted by powder brand and charge obviously wrong. Another check is short 10 “USUALY” able to handle 12 G published target loads.

William

[Alex Dawes]

I realize it isn’t fiber wads but I use 18.6 of Red Dot with the SP-10 with two 16 ga 1/8” nitro wads in the bottom of the cup and 1 1/8 ounces of shot . Not saying to go out and buy SP-10 wads but you oughtta be able to adapt it some sort of way as it’s quite lite in my opinion .

I got into wanting to go smokeless at the wrong time. SP-10s are going for fairly outrageous prices. I just backed of a Gunbroker lot that's made it to $31 without shipping even factored in and 9 hours left. I don't mind black, but my hunting buddies are getting a little tired of not being able to see after I shoot :rotf:

Any thoughts on starting with similar load data as the SP-10 then building up the wad column and using overshot cards? I can't imagine any pressure issues with those combos, but like I said I don't want to reinvent the wheel if someone has already found something okay. 31 grains from the Hercules manual seems excessive, but if someone is using it I'd love to know how it's working.

[Alex Dawes]

When loading “off the Charts” short 10 or 16 G I make a spread sheet with various recommended loads. Comparing you will find a few that don’t make good sense. Individually not obvious sorted by powder brand and charge obviously wrong. Another check is short 10 “USUALY” able to handle 12 G published target loads.

William

Thanks for the pointer. Fortunately there is 12 gauge data available which starts at 18.0 grains of Red Dot and 1 1/8 ounces loads.

[Bill Murphy]

Using a card wad over the powder and felt or fiber filler wads and 1 1/8 ounces or a little more lead shot, 23 to 25 grains of Red Dot won't blow up any ten gauge gun. The standard 12 gauge fiber wad 1200 fps load with 1 1/8 ounces of shot was 23 grains of Red Dot in the sixties. The bigger hole in the ten gauge should allow a couple more grains of powder for similar performance. I would like to see that 31 grain load in print before I believe it.

[Alex Dawes]

I would like to see that 31 grain load in print before I believe it.

I agree. I would like to see the original as well. It was in the document Pete Lester put together and seemed a little off to me. 6 of the 7 loads are over 29 grains of Red Dot in the comprehensive list.

It seems like low 20s is the place to start. I appreciate all the help. My Remington 1894 and my Parker are some hefty 10s

[Bill Murphy]

Mid twenties of Red Dot would be a very safe starting point. If heavy shot loads or high velocity are desired, a slower powder than Red Dot would be called for to keep pressures under control. The 12 gauge data you mention starting at 18.X grains is with good sealing plastic wads, not paper wads. William Davis is correct. 12 gauge data is usually, maybe always, safe in a ten gauge, but we're talking paper wad data from the sixties. Modern 12 gauge data is lighter than it needs to be if we're loading it in ten gauge cases. Red Dot data for 1200 fps loads in the paper wad era was 23 grains, gravitating to less than 19 grains today.

[Pete Lester]

I agree. I would like to see the original as well. It was in the document Pete Lester put together and seemed a little off to me. 6 of the 7 loads are over 29 grains of Red Dot in the comprehensive list.

It seems like low 20s is the place to start. I appreciate all the help. My Remington 1894 and my Parker are some hefty 10s

If you check my spreadsheet you will see that is from published load data printed in the 1960's by Hercules Powder Company. If you look at my notes I cautioned that Red Dot powder may have had a change in formulation and I would start by reducing them by 25% if using in composite barrel guns.

[William Davis]

The fiber wad has some advantages vs card wads as fillers. Buy 16 g fibers too big and split with a knife to suit. Often the split is half & you get two wads out of one. They also have some “spring” that helps obtain correct stack height .

Card wads most useful over shot were they can help with poor crimps in well worn Cheddites hulls. Otherwise Cheddite is a limited load # hull.

William

[Mike Koneski]

I don't load Red Rot or WSF but I do load Unique in my Short-10. You can use nitro cards and fiber wads in the same loads as an SP-10 or other 10g plastic wads but you will need to play around with the size of your wad column to make sure your crimps will be good.

[CraigThompson]

I don't load Red Rot or WSF but I do load Unique in my Short-10. You can use nitro cards and fiber wads in the same loads as an SP-10 or other 10g plastic wads but you will need to play around with the size of your wad column to make sure your crimps will be good.

I'm in the process of loading 10's as we speak .

I've loaded a bunch with 1 1/8 ounces and a powder puff load of Red Dot . I've also loaded a bunch with 1 1/4 ounces and SR7625 again a not what I would call hot load .

But I'd forgotten you gave me the data for your Unique load . I have it saved so I just might load up a box of them to try at Tuesday night skeet :whistle:

[CraigThompson]

Just loaded a box using Unique and an ounce and a quarter of #8’s per Sir Koneski’s details . Although I was able to get by with one 1/8” 16 gauge nitro was in the cup and my usual over shot card to make the crimp flat . I’ll try these Tuesday evening at skeet and a few of my SR7625 to see if perceived recoil is close .

[CraigThompson]

I almost forgot I’ve got a 10 gauge 2 7/8” load at home scribbled down from a friend using Universal Clays and 1 1/4 or 1 3/8 ounces of shot . That’s his Southern SxS load . May have to load a dozen or so of them tomorrow just for the heck of it .

[Paul Harm]

Craig, you sure those 1 1/4 or 1 3/8oz loads aren't too light for clay birds ? Man, my shoulder hurts just thinking about them. I like 1oz loads in the short 10 for clay bird games. If my 12ga 3/4 or 7/8oz loads work just fine in a 12ga there's no reason a 1oz load won't work in a 12 or the 10. 20grs of RD, GD, or Promo all work. 17grs of 700x is also fine in the 10 with fiber wads and 1oz of shot. JMHO

[CraigThompson]

The 1 1/4 7625 and Unique loads aren’t bad . Shot the 7625 loads at sporting clays last Friday and shot a mid 80’s score . The Tuesday before the Unique loads worked nicely at skeet even though I mostly shot backwards doubles at all stations . My 1 1/8 ounce Red Dot loads worked well for a friend last Friday at sporting as well . Sorry to say I’ve not tried any of the 1 1/4 with Universal Clays yet as I’ve misplaced the paper I had the load scribbled on .