How are taste’s and needs change with time

[Don Strelioff]

I went into a local gun shop today for a casual look on the used gun rack first two that caught my I was a win model 12 field grade 28” mod nice clean gun 500$
The second was a real nice model 12 duck gun trap grade it had a solid rib and the upgraded wood very nice gun , $500 not sure how they came up with the pricing.
My point being that normally I would have been all over the duck gun I have shot model 12’s all my life starting at age 12ish
I had no trouble leaving them in the store I bought my first parker 8 or 9 yrs ago
and they are my go to field guns . The model 12’ S felt wrong .

[Stan Hillis]

You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din.

I'd wouldn't have left without that trap grade 12, at $500.

[Michael D Hankinson]

This is a crazy time on the Model 12s, prices are all over the map. I read all the ads for them back in the early 1950's, I still have a 16 and a 20 that work for me. I sold my 12 ga "Turkey Gun" a while ago due to recoil on the shoulder that had problems anyway. The shoulder, not the Model 12. My old Lefever double is now my Turkey gun.

[Bill Murphy]

In Don's defense, I am sure he knew that the "trap grade" magnum Model 12 was a put together gun at best and a fake at its worst. I has no collector value and would be a drug on his collection. Additionally, the field grade is as common as weeds in your lawn and would also just take up room in his collection. Nothing wrong with Model 12s sharing space with your Parkers, but they should be good ones with collector interest. OK, Don, tell us about your Parkers.

[Dave Noreen]

I am sure he knew that the "trap grade" magnum Model 12 was a put together gun at best and a fake at its worst.

In the 1936, 1937 and 1938 Winchester catalogs on the Model 12 Heavy Duck page it states that it can be had in Standard, Standard Trap, Special Trap and Pigeon Grades. In the 1939 catalog it states under the Heavy Model 12 Duck Gun "Standard Grade as shown--Trap Gun or Pigeon Grade.

By the 1941 catalog one could get his or her Model 12 Duck with checkered stock and forearm for $3.03 extra, with checkered stock and forearm of semi-fancy walnut for $9.28 extra, or checkered stock and forearm of full-fancy walnut (includes hand smoothed working parts) for $18.16 extra. Same as above with extension slide handle $5.30, $11.55 or $20.43 extra.

Such a fancy Model 12 Heavy Duck Gun languished at Krasne's Sporting Goods in San Diego most of the three years I was there.

[Don Strelioff]

The duck gun is not a fake I have owned 3 such guns in the last 35 years at my high point I had 33 model 12’s
I now have a deluxe 20 ga 1959 ish solid rib gun and a 26” mod choke16 ga solid rib field gun
Living in western Canada model 12’s have always been inexpensive
In 1987 ish I bought a 1948 pigeon gun with b carved wood and a standard trap stock that gun won mean lots of money at ata trap shoots

[Don Strelioff]

As far as Parker’s I have mentioned them on a few threads
1928 Vhe 30”bbl 12 ga 1 1/2 frame
1919 PH grade 26” bbl choked imp mod and lite mod number 1 frame
1923 GH 20 ga 26” bbl imp mod and imp mod possibly full and full Damascus bbl no 0 frame
Not sure of the date a Trojan 16 ga 28” bbl no 1 frame
I have been looking at a number 2 frame DHE 12ga 30” bbl
Not sure what to do about this one nice condition non original butt stock but a nice gun at a fair price .

[Alfred Greeson]

Many of us grew up shooting Model 12's. The family could afford them but not a Parker. I once bought a nice 20 ga. over the phone and had my Father pick it up. I was away at college and my Mother called to say my Father was upset over me buying the M 12, seems I jumped ahead of him with my phone call. The only time we ever got cross on a gun deal so I traded it to him for a L C Smith 20 that I couldn't hit the side of a barn with. I had to wait 35 years to inherit that M 12. I now have three but would still like to find a heavy duck gun but love my Parkers too.

[Alfred Greeson]

I think we have it pretty good. The guns we grew up with were for putting food on the table. My grandfather shot everything with a stevens 410 and would have had a serious conversation with me if he could see my Parkers or what I paid for them. But, we live good, enjoy those Parkers but shoot an old M 12 if you get a chance.

[Craig Larter]

As a young man in the 1960's I cut my teeth shooting my fathers Browning Sweet 16. At that point in my life my dream gun was a Browning Superposed but it was way out of reach. After college and my first job my first purchase was a Winchester 101 20ga. Pheasants were still abundant in western NY and 20's could still be used with lead for ducks. I then became a Ruger Red Label fan for a decade while hunting in coastal NJ. Back to western NY in the middle 80's and I went on a Winchester 23 kick for duck hunting. In the late 80's I got the AH Fox bug from my uncle who shot Fox guns. During the 90's and early 2000's I really got the Fox sickness and started the AH Fox collectors association and accumulated a nice grouping. About 10 years ago I bought my first Parker a CH 12ga with Bernard barrels, then the Parker bug really hit. Today my interest is waterfowl guns from the early part of the 20th century but I am not a one brand collector, they all interest me. My favorites are Fox. Parker, LC Smith, Lefever and Remington especially Model 11F's, E's and D's.

[John Allen]

One thing that I have noticed over the years has been the return to longer barrels. When I started collecting and trading in doubles a 26" gun would bring a big premium. Now 26" doubles andover unders are very hard to sell. Back in the 70s, I turned down a mint 34" DHE at a VERY good price because no one wanted the long barrels. I wish I could find it now.

[CraigThompson]

When I was growing up my first shotgun at 8 years of age was an H&R single 12 with a 32” full choke barrel . I was a pretty good sized kid when young . My second shotgun was the WW Greener D40 I still have it also was a 12 gauge . My pop was pretty adamant about not bringing pumps , any semi auto’s (excluding A-5’s) or any Jap O/U in the house . So all we had until I was in my mid 20’s were single barrels or SxS’s the transition to an O/U was an easy one for me , same could be said for semi’s mostly 1100’s or A-5’s . Never had many 870’s but over time I’ve had a covey of Model 12’s . I think I’ve said it before , but I’m equally good or bad with SxS or O/U it’s all in how you critique it . I will say I always shot an 1100 better than any pump with the exception of a circa 1938 Winchester Model 12 16 gauge with a 28” solid rib full choked barrel . At the time I had it I could walk on a skeet field and shoot a straight round then shoot 16 yard trap and shoot a straight round with great regularity . But that was a number of years ago and between competition and so called practice I’d shoot close to 800 targets every week . I still think it rather funny the number of so called “good trap shooters” that claimed 32” barrels were to long to get around quick on trap doubles , now you have many people shooting tubed skeet guns that have 32” barrels and of I’m not mistaken I’ve heard that some are looking at 34” barrels . I’m still good with 28” for an O/U tubed skeet gun , 34” unsingle for 16 yard and handicap then finally a 32” O/U for trap doubles .

[Mills Morrison]

One thing that I have noticed over the years has been the return to longer barrels. When I started collecting and trading in doubles a 26" gun would bring a big premium. Now 26" doubles andover unders are very hard to sell. Back in the 70s, I turned down a mint 34" DHE at a VERY good price because no one wanted the long barrels. I wish I could find it now.

Notice the Parker Repros are all 26 and 28 inch barrels. 26” is a perfect length for a upland bird gun

[Stan Hillis]

This is just opinion mind you, but "perfect" barrel length has a lot to do with a man's physique. A gent with long arms will naturally hold the forend farther out toward the muzzles than a shorter armed gent. Having the front hand further out increases the leverage to swing the gun. IOW, a long armed gent might be able to swing a 30" gun just as quickly as a shorter armed fellow handling a gun with 26" barrels.

I am a proponent of long barrels. They like me, and I like them. I'm 6'2", with long arms. My 28" barreled Fox 20 ga. quail gun moves as fast as I want a gun to move. I've done fine work on quail with 30" barreled guns. I really don't care for 26" barreled bird guns. Remember, doves are considered upland birds, too. I don't think I could find a gun with barrels too long for doves. Thirty to thirty-two inch barrels are perfect for me on dove guns.

[Mills Morrison]

Doves are a different animal and I have shot a wide variety on them. Physique would make a big difference.

[Bill Murphy]

I don't know what made me do it, but I once carried a 20 gauge 1100 skeet gun into the dove field and killed a limit with about one more shell than the "limit". However, it was the least fun I had ever had shooting doves. I went back to long, tight bored smallbores, and never looked back. If you shoot all your doves at 20 yards, you can't avoid picking them up yourself. Shoot them at 55 yards and someone else will pick them up for you.

[Stan Hillis]

I don't know what made me do it, but I once carried a 20 gauge 1100 skeet gun into the dove field and killed a limit with about one more shell than the "limit". However, it was the least fun I had ever had shooting doves. I went back to long, tight bored smallbores, and never looked back. If you shoot all your doves at 20 yards, you can't avoid picking them up yourself. Shoot them at 55 yards and someone else will pick them up for you.

When you deck one at 60-70 yards, and everybody near sees it, they pick it up for you and bring it to you ............. in deference. But, you don't do that with a .410, for sure.

[Mills Morrison]

I shot doves with a Superposed skeet gun and had similar results. Won’t try that again

[Mike Koneski]

For $500, even if that M12 was "put together", if the gun was solid it would still be worth it. Granted, it is a Westchester and not a superior Ithaca M37 featherlite, but it's still a good gun. :corn:

A few of you mentioned what your first shotgun was. Mine was a 37 that was a Christmas present in 1974. I still have that gun. It accounted for a lot of roosters and rabbits back in the day. Every once in a while I will hunt with it and shoot the occasional pump gun event in clays. It was a far cry better than the long barreled Mossberg 12g bolt gun with the Poly-Choke my dad let me use!! :shock:

[Mills Morrison]

My first shotgun was an 870 20 gauge

[Stan Hoover]

My first shotgun was an Ithaca 37 20 gauge, ya know the greatest pump shot gun ever produced :corn:

It is a King Ferry produced Mdl 37, 2 3/4” or 3”, and it is a straight grip. I shot quite a few dove, squirrel and duck with it, just never took a liking to straight grip stocks.

Stan Hoover

[Mike Koneski]

My first shotgun was an Ithaca 37 20 gauge, ya know the greatest pump shot gun ever produced :corn:

It is a King Ferry produced Mdl 37, 2 3/4” or 3”, and it is a straight grip. I shot quite a few dove, squirrel and duck with it, just never took a liking to straight grip stocks.

Stan Hoover

Stan, do you still have that 37?

[Mike Koneski]

My first shotgun was an 870 20 gauge

Still have it?

[Stan Hoover]

Stan, do you still have that 37?

I do, haven’t shot it in a few years. I would have probably started Shane with it but by then I was in to the SXS’s and picked up Ithaca/Lefever A grade that he still shoots.

[Craig Larter]

We had a no side by side clays shoot at my duck club this week. Guys shot their pumps and autos that they had not shot in years, big fun! We did have to coach the pump shooters to pump between pairs LOL! I shot my model 11 and was a little unnerved by the mechanism recycling between shots.

[Dean Romig]

Twenty years ago or more at my Skeet club I bought an A5 twenty gauge from a friend. I shot one round of Skeet with it and insisted he take it back. I hated the “bangclang” with every shot. I haven’t shot a repeater since that night.





.

[Stan Hoover]

We had a no side by side clays shoot at my duck club this week. Guys shot their pumps and autos that they had not shot in years, big fun! We did have to coach the pump shooters to pump between pairs LOL! I shot my model 11 and was a little unnerved by the mechanism recycling between shots.

That is my downfall when picking up a pump now, I occasionally forget to pump and it only goes bang once:rolleyes:

[CraigThompson]

Twenty years ago or more at my Skeet club I bought an A5 twenty gauge from a friend. I shot one round of Skeet with it and insisted he take it back. I hated the “bangclang” with every shot. I haven’t shot a repeater since that night.





. While I understand the cycling of an A-5 try shooting skeet with a 410 1100 I always noticed the action movement over the nonexistent recoil .

I hate pickin the hulls up off the ground !

[jefferyconnor]

I killed my first deer with a 94 Winchester I borrowed from my grandmother. I killed my first bird with a Savage A-5 type, maybe a 775, borrowed from my dad. I like and have always liked: Winchester rifles, Colt handguns and American side by side doubles. I eventually ended up with only those once I sold off an English shotgun, a couple of pumps and auto shotguns, my S & W revolvers and my Remington rifles. Well, I still do have one Luger and one Freedom arms. I’m currently changing my views and looking for a Superposed and a 37T. Regarding double shotguns, I own more Parkers than any other make but sure like my Ithacas, my Lefever and my Winchester 21 better yet for some reason.

[Dave Noreen]

I like them all. I have just as much fun with the Remington Model 17, 28-inch, solid rib, imp. cyl. that was $200 out the door of my local pawn shop as a Model 21.