Black powder/smokeless?

[Roberto S Siciliano]

My pop always fired low brass smokeless in his 1892 GHE hammerless.

Assuming the barrels are still good, is there a limitation with any of the Parkers of this era that restrict them to black powder with smokeless being off limits?

[Dean Romig]

Smokeless is not “off limits” even for the oldest of Parkers. It is the chamber pressure that we need to consider. If the barrels and barrel wall thickness is deemed to be safe you can shoot anything with pressure of probably about 8,000 (or less) psi and muzzle velocities of less than 1,250 or so fps. A lot of us use RST Classic Shotshells. Look them up and check out their website for a very decent listing of all the shotgun anmo they load for our classic shotguns.
But the stock, being 100 years or more old is another consideration entirely. Cracks, splits and chips can and do occur.

“Low brass” really means nothing. It all depends on how the shell is loaded. I’ve seen some pretty stout loads in low brass shells.





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[Drew Hause]

Bulk Smokeless ("E.C.", "Schultze", and DuPont) were introduced in the U.S. c. 1892, and were in general use by 1895.

The Parker Brothers 1893 Catalogue stated:
“Our guns are bored on the latest improved system for shooting Nitros, or Smokeless Powder, and all our guns are tested with some one of the most approved makes, and a tag accompanies each gun, giving the results of such a (pattern) test.”

A DuPont Ballistic Table was published in Parker Brothers' “The Small Bore Shotgun” c. 1920 http://parkerguns.org/pages/PDF%20Documents/Small%20Bore%20Shotgun.pdf
Numbers require adding 10 - 14% for modern piezo transducer pressures.
12 gauge
3 Dr. Eq. 1 1/8 oz. = 8,110 psi
3 1/4 Dr. Eq. 1 1/8 oz. = 8,960 psi
3 1/2 Dr. Eq. 1 1/4 oz. = 9,900 psi

More here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F2sQuPm05IE4VWYYnCkvuXmYEzQoWd_SQgaAfUOZEFU/preview

[Roberto S Siciliano]

Dean... what is deemed a safe wall thickness?
Thx



Smokeless is not “off limits” even for the oldest of Parkers. It is the chamber pressure that we need to consider. If the barrels and barrel wall thickness is deemed to be safe you can shoot anything with pressure of probably about 8,000 (or less) psi and muzzle velocities of less than 1,250 or so fps. A lot of us use RST Classic Shotshells. Look them up and check out their website for a very decent listing of all the shotgun anmo they load for our classic shotguns.
But the stock, being 100 years or more old is another consideration entirely. Cracks, splits and chips can and do occur.

“Low brass” really means nothing. It all depends on how the shell is loaded. I’ve seen some pretty stout loads in low brass shells.





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[Bruce Day]

These make a nice light target and small bird load. For pheasant out here on the plains , I go to 1 1/8 oz 3 dram loads.

[Dean Romig]

Dean... what is deemed a safe wall thickness?
Thx



Most classic SXS folks believe .025" wall thickness to be the minimum for safe shooting.



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[Drew Hause]

Dean's answer would be the short version ;) and it's a lot more complicated.
Since I've never found engineering drawings or specifications by ANY U.S. maker for wall thickness, the recommendations are based on lots of measurements of presumed to be unaltered barrels.
http://parkerguns.org/pages/faq/BarrelThickness.htm

Never missing an opportunity to rant :cuss: , sellers commonly list MWT, never bothering, or not disclosing, end-of-chamber and 9" numbers.

Consider this

https://photos.smugmug.com/Barrel-Evaluations/Parker-Burst/i-rGS9sHg/0/a61ca79e/L/ParkerNo2a-L.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Barrel-Evaluations/Parker-Burst/i-rGS9sHg/A)

[Craig Larter]

My 1890 era 12's measure .750 my 10's from the same era measure .780. After 1900 the 12's measure .730 I don't own any 10's past 1898, but my two 10's from that date still measure .780. I have a 1891 CH 12ga on a #1 frame that measures .750 and still has min walls of .036 (.060 at 9" from the muzzle)and the gun weights 7lbs 4oz exactly to the letter so I believe the barrels are untouched. Just my 2 cents.

[Milton C Starr]

My 1890 era 12's measure .750 my 10's from the same era measure .780. After 1900 the 12's measure .730 I don't own any 10's past 1898, but my two 10's from that date still measure .780. I have a 1891 CH 12ga on a #1 frame that measures .750 and still has min walls of .036 (.060 at 9" from the muzzle)and the gun weights 7lbs 4oz exactly to the letter so I believe the barrels are untouched. Just my 2 cents.

This is one of the best things about buying Parkers from members here who are experienced in these old guns. Alot of the times they have taken the important barrel measurements or have had them checked out and have also hunted with them a good bit.