Brass Shell Loading:

[Bruce P Bruner]

Finished up the 16 gauge, time to load the 12 gauge. The vintage Rem/UMC and Winchester shells were cleansed in a tumbler containing water, Dawn dish soap, a pinch of Lemi Shine and a pound of stainless steel pins. In 4 hours they came out like new. I sealed the over shot cards with Sodium Silicate, works great covering the entire card. The vintage shells loaded without incident, however the Magtech hulls were a different story. The primer pockets were too small and required reaming and swaging. The flash holes were also too small and needed to be sized larger to allow for primer removal with a sizing die decapper pin. Once those two hurdles were cleared it was smooth going.
Using the published Parker Brothers data this is my mild 12 Gauge Load:
2-3/4 Drams FFG Black Powder
1 oz. #8 Shot
Update: 85 12 Gauge are completed today. I'm going out early Sunday morning and shoot some clay pigeons with the Parker Bros 16 GH and the Clabrough 12 gauge. The Parker 16 DHE with the ventilated rib won't be making the trip, I have not as of yet had the cracked forearm repaired.

[Bruce P Bruner]

Finisher the 12 Gauge, found another 50 16 Gauge to load. The original brass 16 gauge are seriously hard to find. Of all my brass only two are Parker Bros head stamped. I have a source for vintage Rem/UMC and Winchester brass, I didn't mention the affordability factor. They are pricy, like most anything these days.

[Milton C Starr]

Something I am curious about, the overshot cards appear to be paper. I was thinking for waterfowling or in non ideal conditions some sort of waterproof paper could be used.

[Bruce P Bruner]

Something I am curious about, the overshot cards appear to be paper. I was thinking for waterfowling or in non ideal conditions some sort of waterproof paper could be used.

I cover the paper overshot card with Sodium Silicate, the shells are impervious to moisture.

[Bruce P Bruner]

Lucky day. I checked out a pawn shop and was scrounging through some unmarked plastic boxes and sourced two large primer pocket reamers, one does width and one for depth (adjustable). Also found a flash hole reamer. These vintage tools make the task much easier. The Magtech brass flash holes were too small to use the decapper pin, so the flash hole reamer makes the holes uniform and just the right size. So for the $15 investment I ramped up production, about 140 12 and 16 gauge are completed, though there are about 50 more to finish.
The vintage UMC/Remington, Winchester and Parker Bros. brass shells only require cleaning, they are much better quality than the Magtech. Interestingly the Parker "12A" brass measure 2-5/8" and all the other brands measure 2-1/2".

[Craig Larter]

They sure look great but it is a labor of love. You can see why the old time market hunters were up all night loading brass shells.

[Keith Sirmans]

So how did they shoot?

[Paul Harm]

I used a deprimer punch and bushing on a Mec 9000H. I had to hand load the primer and stopped at the crimp station. I ended up selling 200 Magtecks and the reloding set up to a cowboy shooter.

[Bruce P Bruner]

"So how did they shoot?"
Going to pattern and bust some clays tomorrow. This old thrower is older than dirt but works well.

[Eric Johanen]

Great set up Bruce! I do much the same only for 12's I use 3 drams of OE 1.5 powder as I have found it to be the cleanest and softest fouling powder to load. Also use a lubed fiber wad to keep the flying bits from my face when the wind is blowing towards me. Great fun using the all brass hulls. I have mostly REM/UMC with a good number of Winchester. Are the two brass cylinders in front of the funnel brass re-sizers? Work well for sizing if you fire shells in more than 1 gun. I found mine at a gun show many years ago in an box of reloading stuff. I suppose a i-net search could locate one for sale. Many do not know what they are or what they are used for. Necessary item for me.

[Bruce P Bruner]

"Are the two brass cylinders in front of the funnel brass re-sizers?"

Yes they are sizing cylinders, a 12, a 16 and a 20. The 12 gauge one when inverted supports a 16 gauge brass shell rim for pounding in primers with a flat dowel and a mallet. I also prefer Old Eynsford, more zip and cleaner burning.

My two sons and I enjoyed some rifle bench time and "blowing some smoke".
If you look closely you can see the shot column.

[jefferyconnor]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/304020430409?hash=item46c9079e49:g:J4sAAOSwm25glEh 7

Parker Bros. Number 29 loading tool: Do you happen to know how does this thing work? Do you use something similar?

[Bruce P Bruner]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/304020430409?hash=item46c9079e49:g:J4sAAOSwm25glEh 7

Parker Bros. Number 29 loading tool: Do you happen to know how does this thing work? Do you use something similar?

The cylinder fits over the shell case, the the round knob rod pushes the over powder wad into the case. Then you push in the vegetable cushion wad. It's a very rare loading implement but other than the Parker Bros. nostalgia factor it's hardly necessary. I have one but I don't use it. The over powder wad and cushion wad easily press in the hull first with your thumb and and then use an ordinary dowel over the wad column with 90lbs. pressure. The powder doesn't necessarily need compression although all of the air must be squeezed(forced) out.
I couldn't verify any Parker nomenclature on the tool, although it could be a Parker tool. I really don't know. I do know the Wad Guide in my photo is not a Parker Bros. branded tool.

[jefferyconnor]

The cylinder fits over the shell case, the the round knob rod pushes the over powder wad into the case. Then you push in the vegetable cushion wad. It's a very rare loading implement but other than the Parker Bros. nostalgia factor it's hardly necessary. I have one but I don't use it. The over powder wad and cushion wad easily press in the hull first with your thumb and and then use an ordinary dowel over the wad column with 90lbs. pressure. The powder doesn't necessarily need compression although all of the air must be squeezed(forced) out.
I couldn't verify any Parker nomenclature on the tool, although it could be a Parker tool. I really don't know. I do know the Wad Guide in my photo is not a Parker Bros. branded tool.

It does say “Parker Bros. No. 29 12” on it if you look close at the listing pictures.
I offered the fellow $75 as the listing closed with no bids.

I’m interested in loading low volume brass shells for hunting. I have a wanted ad on this site if you happen to have any cast off or extra brass reloading items. I’m looking at loading 2 9/16” shells for my hammer twelves and 3 1/2” for my 10 NID Mag. I have a good supply of black for the twelves and want to load smokeless for the ten. Any advice here or by PM would be appreciated!

[Richard Flanders]

I have the knob end of a seating tool like Bruces and the chromed guide. The dowel end disappeared years ago and doubled as a primer punch and a wad seater. You just pulled it out of the knob and turned it end for end depending upon what you were doing. I used it and the hand crank crimpers for the first reloading of paper shells I did in the middle 60's.

[Paul Harm]

Because the primers are so small [ rifle or pistol ] you'll need a deprime tool made up that keeps the pin to knock out the primer centered very good. That pin is quite a bit smaller in diameter than what we're used to with the 209 primers. If you're going to use nitro powders in a brass case where you're not crimping you'll need about a 1/4" of brass above the OS card for glue to adhere to for enough resistance for a good powder burn. The reason I sold all those Magtecks was I didn't know back then what it took when using smokeless powders. Some form of enough resistance is necessary to get good loads. I now use a hot glue gun when loading 444 Marlins for my 410s.It's quick and easy to get enough glue for a good load. JMHO

[Paul Harm]

Jeffery, other than a pin centered good enough in a wooden dowel for depriming, all you'll need is a dowel to push wads down and a glue gun. For seating the primer I just set one on a piece of metal flat stock, put the shell on it with a dowel in it to wack with a hammer. You'll also need a little stand or a hole drilled in the work bench for the primer to drop into when depriming. Wads for brass shells can be bought from BPI or circlefly.com. They need to be one size larger because the brass is thinner than a regular paper or plastic shell. Use only fiber wads for BP. Good luck.

[Bruce P Bruner]

Paul is correct. My only deviation is using Sodium Silicate to seal the over shot card. Using a syringe I cover the entire card. This provides resistance for a faster more complete burn and ensures the shell is waterproof. For 16 gauge about 8 drops is enough.

[Jay Oliver]

Bruce, I enjoyed seeing your pictures and hearing how you reload brass shotshells. I always enjoy doing this and have had fun experimenting with loads and wad to find the best pattern. While I usually just shoot clay targets, I do like hunting with brass shells as well. Very easy to make a bismuth shell for waterfowl hunting too. Thanks for the pictures and starting this thread!

Jeff, I saw the Parker loading tool on Ebay as well. I thought about as well, but thought it was a little to pricy just like you. You really don’t “need” any of those(though I like collecting them), you can get by with a wooden dowel and a small nail to knock out the used primers. There are few ways to prime the shells and you can find cappers on Ebay. For the 12 gauge I like the shells from Track of the Wolf, but use Magtechs too. For 10s I used the Track of the Wolf ones. Here is a great video from Midway on loading 10 gauge brass shells. I will note, I have found I get better patterns with felt wads or I will split a ½ inch fiber wad in two and just use half of it. I also use Duco Cement to glue the overshot cards. Here the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI47bl2h0cU

I would love to put together a Parker hammer gun, brass shell black powder hunt this fall…

[jefferyconnor]

I got 39 of these brass cases to today from Richard!
A few questions come to mind as I get started:
Should I anneal the necks? How do you remove the factory roll crimp? Should I anneal the ends and use a plumb bob tapped in to remove the roll crimp. Lastly, what primers and wads should I use? — Looks like large rifle and 11 gauge, is that right? Should I use magnum primers for black powder?
Thanks!
By the way, I remember when they used to sell water glass at the grocery store. I never knew what for, maybe canning, or something to do with sealing cardboard boxes?

[Bruce P Bruner]

I will attempt to answer some of your questions.
I didn't see factory roll crimps in your photo. I have one empty vintage brass case with a big roll crimp, I haven't a clue how to remove it.
Annealing is a good precaution for case life. That said I haven't had any split cases, but my loads are very mild.
Supplies:
I use Large Pistol Primers, I don't believe Magnum Primers are necessary. The consensus on Magnum Primers for BPCR is they should not be used for numerous negative reasons. Perhaps in subzero temperatures?
For 12 Gauge:
Circle Fly brand Wads:
11 Gauge 1/8" Nitro Cards. However they are not a tight fit and "perhaps" using 10 Gauge would be a better fit. I'm ordering some just to find out.
11 Gauge Fiber Wads. They fit tight in my hulls.
10 Gauge Over Shot Cards.
I use a variety of Black Powder, Goex FFg, Old Eynsford 1-1/2 or FFg, mostly whatever I have on hand. Sometimes I go cheap and use Graf & Sons brand. I also use the "Holy Black" in BPCR so my inventory varies.
Your favorite method to seal the Overshot Cards.
Make sure the primer pockets are prepped. When the Primer is properly inserted they must be flush with the case head. If they stick up you would stress the shotgun & worse when closing the action or fireing, not good. The vintage original brass have only needed cleaning in my experience. The Magtech are hit and miss. Their 12"s didn't require much preparation. The 16's: Needed to uniform the flash holes, they were too small to be able to remove the primer after fireing. They also weren't deep enough or big enough around. With proper tools all of those defects can be overcome.
Others will give you additional help, I'm sure.

[jefferyconnor]

"Are the two brass cylinders in front of the funnel brass re-sizers?"

Yes they are sizing cylinders, a 12, a 16 and a 20. The 12 gauge one when inverted supports a 16 gauge brass shell rim for pounding in primers with a flat dowel and a mallet. I also prefer Old Eynsford, more zip and cleaner burning.

My two sons and I enjoyed some rifle bench time and "blowing some smoke".
If you look closely you can see the shot column.

Bruce, who made or makes the sizing cylinders?

[Bruce P Bruner]

Those are vintage Ideal/Lyman sizing dies, Purchased them on eBay with an assortment of loading supplies, procured by the seller from an estate sale.

[charlie cleveland]

my 8 ga resizer looks like these tools.....nice find....charlie

[jefferyconnor]

Those are vintage Ideal/Lyman sizing dies, Purchased them on eBay with an assortment of loading supplies, procured by the seller from an estate sale.

Are they designed to be used with a mallet, driven on and driven out? I’ll keep an eye out for them in any case.

[Eric Johanen]

I lube clean hulls and tap them into the die flush with the base using a rawhide mallet and tap them out with a wood dowel that is a good fit inside the hull. I have not annealed the hulls as I do not use any crimp just secure the overshot card with Duco cement. (clean the interior with a copper fitting cleaning brush to remove any left over glue residue). After many uses I have had a few show a small split at the mouth and even fewer with a split down the hull. There have been very few failures and they will last for many reloads. I use these some in 3 hammer guns so the size die is necessary for me. Look for them as they will show up now and then. Great fun using them with black powder!

[jefferyconnor]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/324575717724?hash=item4b9238695c:g:sWkAAOSwv45geft j

Regarding sizing dies does anyone have an idea if these are actually sizing dies and what brand these might be?

[Paul Harm]

I used one or another Mec presses to reload brass shells, and for that reason I used 10ga OP and OS cards. Used the 11ga cushion wads. From shooting muzzle loaders for over 50 years a tight fit was usually used. To get a tight fit with Magtecks a 11ga wad, OP and OS, weren't getting the job done. There's a mechanical advantage when using the Mec that allowed using two sizes bigger wads. Just my experience.