New Member in North Georgia

[Walter Sippel]

Hello Folks. I'm glad to be here and like several of the other new guys, I need help with my Parker.

What I have is an 1874 Lifter Action in 10 Gauge. The frame size is 02. Where the grade is supposed to be is "F 9 R". It has two sets of barrels, one is Laminated Steel and the other is Damascus Steel. It is nicely engraved with scrolls and dogs. The butt stock has a rounded knob pistol grip and is a really pretty piece of wood. The bores are in really good shape. The barrels are 30" long. I don't think it was ever shot much, if at all. I know that since the mid 1960's it's been a safe queen. If I were to grade the overall condition I would call it 95%. It has a fitted wood case.

I will be sending off for an authentication letter tomorrow.

I know pictures are needed and will do my best to get some posted soon.

Anybody have any thoughts, comments, suggestions as to what I might have?

Thanks.

[David Noble]

Walter, welcome to the forums. Your gun sounds really interesting. Have you checked to see if there are existing factory records on your gun? You should consider joining the PGCA before ordering your letter, it will save you money on the letter and you will receive the quarterly Parker Pages magazine free with the membership. You will also have access to several other forums that are for members only. I'm wondering how you determined the 1874 date of manufacture. Does it have a four digit serial number?
Please do put up some pictures! We all love pictures here.

[Walter Sippel]

Thanks David. I joined the PGCA about 20 minutes ago. And yes, a four digit serial number, 3345.

[Garry L Gordon]

Walter, your gun as you describe it sounds like a wonderful find. I can't wait to see some photographs and to learn more about it. I'm sure once you post photos, you'll have some knowledgeable replies. I hope there are records for your gun and that they reveal information consistent with gun you have.

Welcome!

[Mills Morrison]

Welcome Walter! That sounds like a very interesting Parker and one anyone would be proud to own

[Walter Sippel]

Well OK then. Now that the stars are out of my eyes, I have to make some corrections to my initial statement. The gun has been shot some. It has some minor pitting in the barrels six to nine inches ahead of the chambers. There are a few pits on the action as well. The muzzles and the chamber faces are clean, no dents or dings. There are some pits on the breach face. And here are some pictures. What do you fellows think?

[Mills Morrison]

That is a beautiful gun! The Damascus/Laminated two barrel set is a great touch as well

[Don Bock]

Case and all too yet. You indeed a lucky man to have gotten that! The breech face seems to indicate it has been fired a fair amount. Congrats on a real nice find.

Don

[John Davis]

That's a very nice high dollar grade gun. The research letter should be very interesting. Glad to see another Georgia member.

[Bruce Hering]

Great gun. Please let us know what the letter says.... interesting I bet.

[Dean Romig]

Wow, what a find! That would be a dollar-quality gun and would be the predecessor of a Grade-5 (B) or Grade-6 (A) range.

That set of Laminated Steel barrels, unless added after 1877, are likely English Laminated. Look on forward end of the right barrel flat for a P stamp indicating the barrels may have been made by Parker Bros. during the three years (1877, 78, 79) that they made their own Laminated Steel barrels. If the P is not there the barrels are probably of English origin. Being mis-matched tubes I'm guessing they were added later at Parker Bros. with their own-make barrels.

That happy spaniel pup at the rear of the left lock and on the trigger guard bow is a 'trademark' of Glahn's engraving.





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[Bill Murphy]

This gun is an exceptional find, and records are available from PGCA, another great piece of research. Keep in touch.

[Walter Sippel]

Hey Dean, Thanks for the info. There is a P on the right barrel flat, and a patent date of April 11? 1876. I have also included a picture of the pattern on the barrels. My Grandfather said this was known as the "Snakeskin" pattern. That's what Grandpa said, anyway. The Damascus barrels also still show the wire figuring.

[Dean Romig]

So it is an 1875 gun with Laminated Steel barrels most likely added by Parker Bros. after 1877. The research letter may or may not address the addition of the barrels.

Incidentally, we don't know the meaning of the F.9.R.

I kinda like that "snakeskin pattern" description - never heard it before.





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[Brian Dudley]

What a gun! I really like the layout of the case.

[Chuck Bishop]

Walter, please measure the Drop at Heel. I'm guessing 2 1/8".

[Walter Sippel]

I can't get a good measurement on the drop at this time. I cannot get the barrels mounted yet. The barrel keys are firmly wedged into the staples. I do not consider their stubbornness as an affront to my manliness so I am going to give the kroil time to work. In the mean time I am looking for a suitable pusher; bone, wood, plastic, to nudge the keys when they are ready. Then I'll be able to mount the barrels and measure the drop.

[Dean Romig]

A small brass punch driven with a small tack hammer usually does the trick. Tap it on the small side - I'm sure you know that though.





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[Walter Sippel]

Well Dean, it's hard being me sometimes. I skipped over to my bench and found one of the brass drifts that I have used for years and applied it gently. Both keys moved easily. Thank you.

Chuck, the drop at the heel is 27/8". Measured it several times. Definitely not a trap stock.

Also, when I got the forends removed I found the serial number on both irons as well as the keys themselves. And, the color case hardening is still bright on both irons. The little screws in the irons have been engraved. And, I took the gun out in the sun today and there is a little color on the left hand lock.

[Dean Romig]

I can't wait to learn what the research letter tells you if you'd be kind enough to share.





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[Garry L Gordon]

Well Dean, it's hard being me sometimes. I skipped over to my bench and found one of the brass drifts that I have used for years and applied it gently. Both keys moved easily. Thank you.

Chuck, the drop at the heel is 27/8". Measured it several times. Definitely not a trap stock.

Also, when I got the forends removed I found the serial number on both irons as well as the keys themselves. And, the color case hardening is still bright on both irons. The little screws in the irons have been engraved. And, I took the gun out in the sun today and there is a little color on the left hand lock.

This gun sounds better and better with each post.

[Randy G Roberts]

This gun sounds better and better with each post.

Absolutely Garry. Somehow I am just now seeing this post. Lordy Walter you have a dandy there. Fingers crossed for a great letter on that one. :bowdown:

[Harold Lee Pickens]

What a unique and beautiful gun! Interesting engraving pattern, 2 of the dogs appear to be spaniels, and those Laminated barrels truly do resemble "snakeskin". Was this a family gun Walter? Hope you share your letter with us.

[Chuck Bishop]

Mailed out the letter today. I'm sure you will have lots of questions when you read it. Not your ordinary type of research letter. I won't have all the answers. If you post the letter we can all discuss it.

[Walter Sippel]

Geez, that was fast! I'll be waiting for it. Thanks!

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Hope you share it with us--Chuck leaving us hanging with that intro to your letter.

[Walter Sippel]

Hello Harold! Of course I'm going to share the letter. That gun has been kept in the dark old safe for far too long. It needs to be aired out and put in the sun.

And along those lines, I took it to my gun club Tuesday to show the fellows in the Trap League. There was much Oooing and Ahhing. It was held, and petted, and just appreciated for what it was by all the old guys there.

Then I brought it home, wiped it off thoroughly with RIG, and put it back in the safe.

[John Davis]

Walter, what gun club? Cherokee? John

[Walter Sippel]

Yep.

[Mike Franzen]

What a great find. I would be interested in how or where you found it.

[Walter Sippel]

Well, okay then, here is the research letter in the attached file for my Parker. Thank you Chuck for doing it so quickly.

And this is what I know, the gun is the Wiley gun. The Wiley name is inscribed on the gold shield on top of the wrist. The measurements of the stock match those on the second page of the letter. The Damascus barrels and the Laminated Steel barrels match the description.

The information left by my grandfather indicates that he purchased it from a “Wiley” or perhaps a Wiley estate. According to his notes, the gun belonged to Orange Wiley, who died in 1926, and the gun was purchased shortly after Alma Wiley’s (Orange’s widow) death in 1959. A newspaper clipping of Alma’s obit is in with the gun. I was a kid then and paid attention to the gun but not the important background information. And Grandpa’s notes indicate that the gun was originally purchased from Parker for $80.00 and the fitted case was an additional $8.00.

There are some discrepancies in the history tho’. According to various genealogy sites, Orange Wiley would have been a teenager, born in 1863, when the gun was purchased. Since $80.00 then would be over $2000.00 now I doubt that Orange could have afforded it. I can find no family link, other than the name and general location, Ohio, between Orange Wiley and T.J. Wiley. T.J. being the owner of note in the research letter.

To the letter: T.J. Wiley was a Tanner and Currier (seller of hides) and would have been in his mid 40’s in 1879. He probably would have been able to afford the gun. C. Sangden was a merchant. W.S. Paker was a physician. They all lived in Piqua, Ohio, and were close in age. (My wife is a Jack Russel Terrier when it comes to researching lineage.)

That’s what I’ve got. Other than the impression that T.J. was kind of hard on the gun. Although, it is in fine shape now and locks up tight.

What do you fellows know?

[Chuck Bishop]

It's just a shame we don't have the original order for this gun because it would have told us the price of the gun. It's a high grade gun. My guess according to the 1874 price list is that it either sold for $150, $200, or $250 which are the top 3 guns Parker produced at that time. The reason I asked you about the Drop at Heel is because that entry is very faded and it looked to me like it was 2 1/8" which would have been very unusual for so early of a gun. The "1" and "7" are very similar and can be misinterpreted when faded.

[Dean Romig]

IMO the gun is either a $200 or a $250 quality judging by the full “teardrops” on the sides ot the bolsters. That would have been the predecessor to the B (5) or the A (6) but not the $150 quality as that would have had the abbreviated teardrops.

$80 as a purchase price, if when new, would seem to indicate a VERY large discount.





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[Chuck Bishop]

Without the original order for this gun, there is no way to determine the price paid. Walter, is it possible that your grandfather bought the gun for $80.00 and paid an additional $ 8.00 for the case? I doubt that Parker would discount that amount but who knows. I agree with Dean that the gun was originally a $200 or $250 dollar grade gun.

[Walter Sippel]

"And Grandpa’s notes indicate that the gun was originally purchased from Parker for $80.00 and the fitted case was an additional $8.00."

I can hear Grandpa laughing now. I will keep his notes because they were his, but so far the only accurate part of them is that the gun is a 10 gauge. :)

Well, he was working with what he was told and what was available in the 1960's.

You fellows are helping a lot and are much appreciated.

[Walter Sippel]

I believe he paid several hundred dollars for the gun. There was much quiet talking about money when he bought it. I do remember that.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Thank you Walter for sharing the pictures, story, and letter about a very unique and interesting gun. That's what makes this forum such a great place to visit.