Black Powder Shell Reloading

[Jim Kremmel]

I’ve accumulated six Alcan 12 ga 2-1/2” brass cartridges, the appropriate 11 ga nitro cards, fiber wads, and 10 ga overshot cards. In an afternoon of browsing old posts here, I have seen references to the “Parker loading tables”, but I have not located said tables. Could someone point me in the right direction? Thanks.

[Jim Kremmel]

Still looking for where I might find the Parker loading tables if we have them on the forum here. Might this info be in “The Parker Story” collection? In reading through parts of past posts across the forum, I have seen one reference to 3 drams of powder and 1-1/8 oz of shot as a standard 12 bore load. I’m not sure if this refers to FFg or FFFg black powder ( I have both). If there is someone here reloading brass cartridges with black powder for older guns, I’d appreciate some references or guidance. Thanks. Jim

[Bruce P Bruner]

Jim, check your private messages

[Paul Harm]

3 drams is 82 grs of powder, normally 2F for a shotgun. I also use 72grs of 3F seeing how it burns faster and will give about the same velocity [ and it's cheaper to do so ]. Unless you're making hunting loads you won't need anything that stout. A nice load would be 75 of 2F or 70 of 3F and 1oz of shot. BP is much more forgiving that nitro. Don't worry if you're 5 or even 10 grs one way or the other - just more or less power and velocity, or less. You won't blow up your gun. Glue the OS card in with white glue. Any the old brass shells I have [ Rem and WIN ] , the 12ga take a small rifle or pistol primer, and the 10ga a large rifle or pistol primer - either one works. Good luck.

[Frank Srebro]

3 drams is 82 grs of powder, normally 2F for a shotgun. I also use 72grs of 3F seeing how it burns faster and will give about the same velocity [ and it's cheaper to do so ]. (snip) .

When black powder burns its weight (mass) is converted to combustion gases and relatively inert solids. The kinetics of the reaction dictate that 82 grains will produce more gases and solids than 72 grains. I understand the 3F burns faster than 2F and with the same charge weight will develop higher initial breech pressure, but why do you think muzzle velocity would be about the same with 72 grains of 3F as with 82 grains of 2F?

[Mike Koneski]

Still looking for where I might find the Parker loading tables if we have them on the forum here. Might this info be in “The Parker Story” collection? In reading through parts of past posts across the forum, I have seen one reference to 3 drams of powder and 1-1/8 oz of shot as a standard 12 bore load. I’m not sure if this refers to FFg or FFFg black powder ( I have both). If there is someone here reloading brass cartridges with black powder for older guns, I’d appreciate some references or guidance. Thanks. Jim


Jim, my BP load for 12g is the same whether I use brass shells or Federal paper hulls. 2 1/2 or 2 3/4 dram of FFg, nitro base card, felt shot wads, 1 oz of shot and an OS card. Glued in on brass, fold crimp on the paper.

[Bruce P Bruner]

Hope this helps (courtesy of a Parker forum member).

[Mike Franzen]

Track of the Wolf sells a reloading manual for parker 10 gauge guns shooting black powder and brass hulls. Covers the various antique loading tools and the step by step process for loading.

[Paul Harm]

Cold Springs, think about what you wrote. If 3F produces more pressure that 2F, then wouldn't a little less 3F produce about the same as a charge of 2F ? I've never checked velocity of my shotgun shells, just going with what others have used in the past. Go over to www.doublegunshop.com and do a search or ask the question about BP loads for shotguns.
You can do the same thing with rifles - a little less 3F and get the same results as with more 2F. The 2F burns faster - don't know about all that " When black powder burns its weight (mass) is converted to combustion gases and relatively inert solids. The kinetics of the reaction" - I just know what works. At least I think I do - most the time.

[Stan Hillis]

Paul, I'm certainly not speaking for Cold Spring, but maybe it's the phrase "about the same" that is the catch here. We understand that the faster burn rate of a charge of 3F will increase pressures over an equal charge weight of 2F. But, how can you predict that one charge weight of 2F will deliver "about the same" velocity as a different charge weight of 3F, without having tested it?

Not being argumentative, but trying to show where I think the misunderstanding may be.

[Paul Harm]

I never have worried too much about velocity. In my Lymans 1st Edition reloading manual they don't show 3F for shotguns but in a 45cal rifle and 50grs of 3F, it has a 1212 velocity, and a 60gr charge of 2F has a 1238 velocity. So, a 10gr difference is about the same. Am I gonna spend the money to prove something I've known to be true from 50 years of shooting BP - no. I never thought about going with 3F in a shotgun till about 10 years ago and over on the doublegunshop.com a couple of the guys were talking about 70gr 3F charges in the 12ga worked just great shooting skeet. That was with 1oz of shot. They claimed their leads didn't change and I tried it and liked it. The finer the powder, the faster the burn, the more energy, so the higher the velocity. Don't matter if it's a bullet or a load of shot; the same principle applies. With the cost of BP today I like to save a little money. You can get a 100 of the 70gr loads from a pound of BP. With 82gr loads it's only 85 loads.
I'm sorry I used the terms " about the same ". BP shooting/loading/reloading is so much different than smokeless. Loads can be varied 5, 10, 20, or more grains, and nothing is going to blow up. Same with going from 1, 2, or 3F. The noise and velocity will change, and that's about all. I've loaded from 80 to 110grs of 2F in the 12ga and only the recoil, noise, and velocity changed. BP is more dangerous in some ways, but safer in other ways. I never get tired of shooting it, only cleaning after.