Bismuth Shot Impact Energies?

[Jim McKee]

Hi!
Looking for impact energies of the various bismuth shot sizes at 40 yds and 50 yds when fired at 1200 fps?
Thanks!
Jim

[Stan Hillis]

Jim, I have looked at all my sources and cannot find what you want, specifically. But I bet I know where you can get it.

tomroster@charter.net

I once called Tom and talked to him personally about a specific question. He wasn't very outgoing at first, but "warmed up". An email is much less demanding of one's time, and if I needed info from him now that is how I would approach it.

In the associated info about bismuth I found where Tom once wrote that in order to duplicate lead performance with bismuth you just go with one size larger bismuth pellet than you would with lead. Basically, he was saying that in order to duplicate the lethality of #5 lead you need to use #4 bismuth.

One brief personal anecdote. I grew up shooting lead at ducks and very reluctantly went to steel many years after it was first developed for waterfowl. I embraced bismuth shot when it came out, and began reloading it. The only perfect limit I ever killed was with no. 4 hand loaded bismuth, in my Super Fox, at about 1200 fps. I went 6 for 6 about three years ago ........... four mallards and two other species.

I'm pattern testing the lower pressure bismuth loads from BOSS Amunition now, through several guns. At 8500 psi, and $1.23/rd, it may negate my need to reload. You might get the info you need from them, if it doesn't work out with Roster.

INFO@BOSSSHOTSHELLS.COM
269-465-3631

Sorry if that's more info than you bargained for, but hope it helps.

Stan

[Joseph Sheerin]

So, these low pressure loads from BOSS, I do not see them on their website. How do you go about getting those?

I bought some #4 2 3/4" 1350 fps loads, but they are too hot in my opinion to be using from my Parker VH. I planned to shoot them from my Late 1940's model 12.

[Stan Hillis]

Joe, for some reason they do not show them on their website. But, if you call their number a nice, and very knowledgeable, young lady can answer any and all of your questions about it, and take your order. I was very impressed with her answers to some of my technical questions.

And, I got the best service I could imagine. I placed the order for a case (200) of them on Friday morning. They were dropped off by FedEx on my porch Sunday afternoon ..........Michigan to Georgia. 2 1/2 days.

[Craig Larter]

I ordered a case of 1 1/8oz loads for my #2 frame Parker duck gun. Boss made an error and shipped 1 1/4oz. I called customer service and they told me to keep the incorrect case and they shipped the correct shells no charge. That's customer service you rarely experience!!

[Stan Hillis]

Wow! That is great service. I'd be surprised at that from another company, but not BOSS. Great first impressions all around, for me.

[Jim McKee]

Tom Roster returned my e-mail
His response was "I know of none measured accurately".
I will be contacting Boss
Thanks!
Jim

[CraigThompson]

A friend gave me two boxes of Bismuth today . Not exactly sure what I’ll use them for but you can’t beat the price FREE :cool:

[Milton C Starr]

Using #5 shot the weight I found going by rotometals website is 2.1grs for a #5 bismuth and for a lead #5 2.5grs. Which works out @1200fps to 7ft lbs of muzzle energy for the bismuth and 8ft lbs of muzzle energy for the lead #5

[Jim McKee]

Milton C Starr,
Can that be translated to ft. lbs at 40 yds & 50 yds?
Thanks!
Jim

[Milton C Starr]

Milton C Starr,
Can that be translated to ft. lbs at 40 yds & 50 yds?
Thanks!
Jim

So I found a ballistic calculator I could use and this is what it came up with for 40 and 50 yards .

First a #5 bismuth pellet .
yards fps ft lbs
40 625 2
yards fps ft lbs
50 532 1

Lead #5 for comparison
yards fps ft lbs
40 703 3

yards fps ft lbs
50 622 2



From everything ive read from guys who shoot bismuth on various shotgun forums the majority of them say when shooting bismuth you dropped down 1 size from lead shot .

To see how true that is heres is a #4 bismuth pellet
yards fps ft lbs
50 573 2

So its goings a little slower but retains the same ft lbs at 50 yards as a #5 lead . #4 Bismuth pellet is 2.7grs and a #5 lead is 2.5grs . I believe the bismuth shot is slowing down faster because its light in relation to its diameter because a #4 lead is still moving at 652 fps at 50 yards with 3ft lbs of energy .

[Stan Hillis]

Thanks for doing those numbers, Milton. That's "confirmation" for why #4B has worked out so well for me over the years. I'm grateful we have bismuth approved as a non-tox.

Next season I will "try my hand" at using my 32" 20 ga. DHE on some ducks with NiceShot loads that I purchased from a friend after the last season went out. Never used NiceShot before, but have heard great things about it.

[Milton C Starr]

Thanks for doing those numbers, Milton. That's "confirmation" for why #4B has worked out so well for me over the years. I'm grateful we have bismuth approved as a non-tox.

Next season I will "try my hand" at using my 32" 20 ga. DHE on some ducks with NiceShot loads that I purchased from a friend after the last season went out. Never used NiceShot before, but have heard great things about it.

Bismuth also seems to be one of the most available shot types right now as well . That 32" 20 sounds like a sweet gun .

[Stan Hillis]

She is a sweetie, Milton. She's at Jim Kelly's right now having the triggers lightened from 7 1/2 and 9 lbs. to 3 1/2 and 4. I shot her a couple of seasons on doves, but I can't shoot triggers that hard effectively.

Here's a pic of her on the dove field a couple seasons ago.

https://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/63268_800x600.jpg (https://www.jpgbox.com/page/63268_800x600/)

[Milton C Starr]

She is a sweetie, Milton. She's at Jim Kelly's right now having the triggers lightened from 7 1/2 and 9 lbs. to 3 1/2 and 4. I shot her a couple of seasons on doves, but I can't shoot triggers that hard effectively.

Here's a pic of her on the dove field a couple seasons ago.

https://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/63268_800x600.jpg (https://www.jpgbox.com/page/63268_800x600/)

Im trying to get into reloading seems powder is impossible to get at the moment. I figure I can get everything else and then when things start coming back in stock I will just need the powder .

Havnt seen any lead shot in stock really but bismuth seems to be plentiful still .
Im going tomorrow to pick up another vintage double , while not a Parker it is interesting I will post some pictures after I get it home .

[William Parks]

I've been shooting and researching Boss shells for a 3 years now, but just acquired my first Parker - a 12ga DH 30" Damascus. Boss sells their "stinger" shells that were referenced above, and I've requested some technical specifications from Brandon Cerecke who is the owner. I'll post here once he sends it over.

Basically their stinger shells are a low compression, 1oz load that has a better shot pattern than some of their larger magnum shells. They do run around 1375 fps, but everything I have read up on them compares more or less directly with the RST bismuth shells, which claim to be safe for Damascus barrels.

[Bruce Hering]

I called Boss last week and the young lady id the did not make any low pressure loads...

Whats up with that ?

[Milton C Starr]

I've been shooting and researching Boss shells for a 3 years now, but just acquired my first Parker - a 12ga DH 30" Damascus. Boss sells their "stinger" shells that were referenced above, and I've requested some technical specifications from Brandon Cerecke who is the owner. I'll post here once he sends it over.

Basically their stinger shells are a low compression, 1oz load that has a better shot pattern than some of their larger magnum shells. They do run around 1375 fps, but everything I have read up on them compares more or less directly with the RST bismuth shells, which claim to be safe for Damascus barrels.

I got two different 10 ga loads at the moment both 1 1/4 oz one is 1100 fps other is 1250 fps the slow one shoots extremely dirty . The 1250 fps is a bismuth load it burns much cleaner I suppose because its a higher pressure load . Both RST loads I think the medium ground is trying to find a load that is easy on the old guns but also doesnt look like youve been shooting black powder . Those 1100 fps ones leave clumps of unburnt powder in the bores of my 10 gauges . If one was so inclined you can load tungsten matrix for damascus barrels also but from ive read its only slightly better than bismuth but I have no first hand experience with TM .

[William Parks]

So to correct my definition of "low pressure" loads, I talked with the owner a little bit today and there is some interpreting to be done. Their stinger loads are the light 1oz loads that still have about 10,000 psi. He was under the impression that Damascus barrels (to no fault of his own given the common misconception) are proofed at around 5,000psi. Comparing the stinger loads from Boss to the bismuth loads from RST that they advertise are safe for Damascus, the loads are very similar. I'm waiting for some more technical specs, but the Boss guy is going to assess things based on the new information.

I would love it if these shells would be safe for my gun, as they are putting out new production daily on their inventory

[Bruce Hering]

So to correct my definition of "low pressure" loads, I talked with the owner a little bit today and there is some interpreting to be done. Their stinger loads are the light 1oz loads that still have about 10,000 psi. He was under the impression that Damascus barrels (to no fault of his own given the common misconception) are proofed at around 5,000psi. Comparing the stinger loads from Boss to the bismuth loads from RST that they advertise are safe for Damascus, the loads are very similar. I'm waiting for some more technical specs, but the Boss guy is going to assess things based on the new information.

I would love it if these shells would be safe for my gun, as they are putting out new production daily on their inventory

William: Please keep us in the loop going forward regarding the pressure stuff....

Thanks

[Aaron Beck]

https://pipesf16.wordpress.com/bismuth-shotpayload-size-analysis/

[Will Penny]

Buy the kyp program and you can come up with infomation on about any shot you want at any practical range

[Frank Srebro]

post deleted

[William Parks]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-dQU2tYVzU