Parker VH 16ga. 0 Frames?

[Mike Stahle]

So just how rare are these just under 6lb. pups?

[Mike Shepherd]

I have one, 28" barrels, 5lbs 14oz. Has a 13-1/2" LOP with original 1 frame factory hard rubber butt plate. Only one that light I have eveer seen.

Best,

Mike

[Rich Anderson]

My two hammer guns are lighter than the hammerless guns. I have a GHE with straight stock, SST, BTF that weighs well over 6lbs and a GH, PG, splinter that is under 6lbs. both guns have 28 inch barrells. I think the two biggest factors in weight are the wood and barrels.

it would be interesting to see a selection of barrels of the same length and see what the weights were befor striking.

[Dean Romig]

A sixteen 0-frame under 6 lbs. is as rare as a twelve ga. 1-frame under 6 3/4 lbs.
I have five sixteen 0-frame guns, 3 hammer guns and two hammerless and none are under six lbs. ... even the one with cut barrels.

[Mike Stahle]

Thanks guys,
I will have many more questions for you Parker
sweet 16 owners here in about a week or so. ;)

[Steve Huffman]

Now the wait till it gets there :whistle:

[Dean Romig]

Fire away with the questions when you get it but be ready for our questions too.

[Eric Eis]

Fire away with the questions when you get it but be ready for our questions too.

Dean you forgot to ask for the required pics.:)

[Mike Stahle]

Dean you forgot to ask for the required pics.:)

There will indeed be pictures taken & posted :)

[Kenny Graft]

I have been watching for several years for a light 16 O frame. I have had two guns with O frames that were light. The first one was just under 6lbs,had lots issues that I could not deal with and sold the gun. Im thinking a light 16 did not hold up as well as a heavier gun after 100 years of use? The second O frame is in my posession but on a three day inspection. Its a two barrel set 28" and 32" PG-Dt-SF with ejectors and two for-ends, all numbers and wood color matches,its a good looking parker. The gun dates to 1908 with the 28" barrels, the 32" barrels were added later and have the parker proofed stamps on the flats, these are a good solid set of barrels, had some dents raised and has some light pitting 4" from the muzzle . With the short barrels gun weight is 6lbs-1 1/2 oz. Perfect balence! With the 32 inchers its weight is 6lbs-9 3/4oz. It shifts the weight forward a bit and is more clubby feeling. The gun is overall solid with no major issues. Its had both sets of barrels worked on and refinished, dents removed polished or honed? I question how mutch steel was removed from the 28" barrels being so light? Belly screws replaced and non widdows peak parker HRBP? I may return it to the seller?, its very scarce gun. For me... at the price of this set I may prefer a higher condition stand alone 28" gun. I wish I had a barrel thickness gauge at hand! If the barrels wall thicknes is good I would keep her. Thanks all Kenny Graft SXS ohio....(-:

[Eric Eis]

Kenny how far are you from Detroit, I have a wall thickness gauge and would be happy to measure it for you. Eric

[Larry Frey]

Over the last few weeks several of us have been weighting and measuring our 12 gage one frame guns for a Parker Pages article that I believe will be in the spring issue. In doing so one of the things I noticed was that the striking process on average removed almost one pound of steel which surprised me as that my friends is a lot of filing.

[Kenny Graft]

My O frame 16ga. I have a very acurate scale and weighed the 28" barrels in question. The weight stamp on the flates read 3lbs -1oz on the scale they weigh 2lbs-7 3/4 oz 9 1/4 oz missing? The bores have been honed...They measure .663/.665. The letter states cly in the right barrel...it measures .002 or maybe .003 of choke now? the left barrel mod and reads .010 Question...how mutch ligter did the barrels get after stiking/finishing? is 9 1/4 excessive? Thanks all Kenny Graft SXS ohio...(-:

[Larry Frey]

Kenny,
I have a 6# 26" 16 gage 0 frame at home. Tonight I will check the stamped barrel weight and current weight and post them here for you but my guess would be that the 9 oz's struck from your gun is probably pretty normal. That being said it would be wise to have the barrel wall thickness checked to be sure the gun is safe to shoot.

[Mike Shepherd]

As I said previously my O frame sixteen weighs 5-14. The unstruck barrel weight was 3-2 and they now weigh 2-9 so 9 ounces were struck off. I believe it has the original chokes (0.012" and 0.008") as they taper all the way to the muzzle. The bores are .669" and .668". The minimum wall thicknesses are 0.030" and 0.28". Walter King's cartouche is on the barrel flats.

Kenny you had your barrels honed? Looking at those bore diameters I would think they are original.

Best,

Mike

[Kenny Graft]

Your reply has been a great help....This gun is on three day return privlege and its decision time>>>....I will most likely keep the gun after your info...It has a lot going for it!, I should not be so fussy about these realy old ones, its truely a nice,rare and special old gun....I do not have a wall thickness gauge but feel confident the barrels are O.K. and safe. I plan to buy a hosford gauge ASAP...I see one listed on vintage doubles sight....535.00 Thanks all Kenny Graft SXS ohio...(-:

[Larry Frey]

Kenny,
I agree with Mike, I don't think your barrels were honed either. The typical bore listing for 16 gage guns is .667 so if anything your bores are on the tight side. If the barrels have not been refinished then the wall thickness is likely as it left the factory. I weighted and measured my DHE 16 O frame with 26" barrels and this is what I found. Both bores measure .665 with right choke .004 and left at .030. The unstruck weight was 2# 15oz with an actual weight of 2# 6oz which shows a 9oz reduction similar yours and Mikes gun. Good luck with your new acquisition.

[Robert Rambler]

Larry, My 1903 DH 16ga O frame,26in tubes weighs 6lbs 8oz, Bores measure .664 ,.005 & .015 chokes. unstruck barrel weight 3-3, finished weight 2-10, another 9oz difference.

[Kenny Graft]

Thank you guys for checking your guns...Thats interesting that all the barrels are that exact!. I would not have thought that. Im keeping the VHE set.....With a little TLC it will make a fine Parker to be proud of. I will send the 32" F/F barrel set to have the chambers moved forward for 2 3/4" shells,have one dent raised they will make a perfect set of barrels for sporting clays and wild roosters in Kansas this november. Ill leave the lightweight short chambered 28" barrels alone and only shoot RST light loads with it untill I get the wall thickness mesured. Those will be the grouse barrels with the open chokes. A Parker 16, O frame ejector gun that only weighs 6lbs-2oz makes a fine upland bird hunting gun indeed! Thanks all Kenny Graft SXS ohio...(-:

[Larry Frey]

Kenny,
Just because the 32" barrels are longer dose not mean that the barrel walls are any thicker than the shorter barrels. If it were me I would wait to open the chambers until after you get your new gage and measure the wall thickness just ahead of the chambers. In fact personally I shoot 2 3/4" shells in my short chambered guns when hunting as I usually am not taking very many shots so any slight increase in recoil is not an issue.

[Mike Shepherd]

Kenny I would wait to have the chambers lengthened. You always have the option of having them lengthened but never the option of putting them back to original.

I have become interested/obsessed in shooting paper and brass hulls loaded with fiber wads. Both in nitro and black powder. Back when that was all that was available there were some warnings from the contemporaneous gunning writers about shooting short shells in long chambers.

And what does that do for you - lengthening the chambers?

I agree that that is a really cool set up. I would take the 28" barrels bobwhite hunting and the 32s dove hunting.

Best,

Mike

[Bruce Day]

According to DGJ tests, it will decrease chamber pressure by about 300psi ( out of maybe 9000psi total) which will in turn have a small effect on recoil pounds. You might get 19 pounds of recoil instead of 20.

Not significant to me, but its not my gun and not my money.

Some people desire these 0 frame 16's because of light weight and some get close to 6lbs, but these light 16's are notorious as hard kickers. If a person wants one for hunting in which he carries a gun all day and gets off a few shots, then maybe recoil doesn't matter so much. If you are concentrating on the bird and wearing a coat, you are probably not even aware of the recoil. But if he is going to shoot a round of 100 sporting clays, maybe the heavier gun is the better alternative. Playing with chamber length to reduce pressure and velocity ( velocity is part of the recoil equation) is only going to help by a very small amount. The reduction in chamber pressure is insignificant to a strong barrel.

I have several 16's in fluid steel and damascus, all are around 6 3/4lbs and are 1 frame ejector guns. I'd like to find the right 0 frame 16 some day, I shot one in SoDak that was a great little gun. The lightest of the 16's seem to be the plain wood, 26" extractor guns, which are usually V grades.

Even with a 6 3/4lb gun 16 , I like these 7/8 oz 2 1/2dram loads, much nicer on my shoulder than the standard 1 oz 2 1/2dram load if I am shooting a round of 100. But of course a big, meaty guy might not even feel the heavier loads. I'm kinda bony.

[Paul Ehlers]

Kenny,

This is just my opinion. Don't do it!!

Those barrels have been wearing their original chamber lengths since they shipped from Meridan. Once you've lengthen them they will be altered forever. The thing that makes your gun special is it's a 0-Frame 16ga two barrel set that is serial numbered correctly. The 32" barrels are what really makes it a cool fairly rare gun. Altering the barrels will only put you in a position of having to make excuses if you ever want to sell the gun.

Here's a little food for thought. With the advent of the internet, the great collecting groups like this one, the various periodicals, and the avalibilty of the various measuring instruments for individuals to own & use. The gun buying public is getting educated on what is correct and what has been altered on the gun they are thinking about purchasing. Originality has always been king and always will be with these Parkers. It's one thing to refinish or restore a gun that has seen use, it's another thing when the gun has been altered from original spec's.

Everything we do to them effects the value of them one way or another, either for the good or bad.

You've stated your planning on using RST's in the short barrels anyway. Just shoot them in the 32" ones as well and enjoy the gun for what it is.

[Paul Ehlers]

FYI,

I pulled out my 0-frame 16 with .664 bore dia. 28" barrels. The barrels are stamped 3lb even but weigh in @ 2lb 9oz on my digital postal scale. So it looks like 7oz were stuck off of these.

Even with barrels this lite the gun still comes in @ 6lb 1oz. Wood density also plays a factor in the over all weight of the gun.