GH just arrived...

[Andrew Sacco]

I'm in the three day inspection period and I'm not quite sure what to make of her. The seller was not sure if the gun was re-stocked but I'm sure it has been re-stocked AND re-colored. The barrels show more wear and are a gorgeous bluish black and deep but show wear in places I would expect. They are in decent shape overall but a bit of mis match for the rest of the gun. The metal/wood fit is very good, as good as my 28 Repro and any of my other guns, perhaps a bit better. The metal to wood is FLUSH, not proud. The fore end metal latch is blued and looks new while the barrels do not, which is a bit confusing as my other Parkers are all worn off. Did they blue this part originally or case harden it? The numbers match the serialization book and barrels are uncut. Both triggers fall on snap caps, safety works. The dimensions are 1 3/8 by 2 1/2 by 14 1/4" and it handles very very nicely. I don't buy guns as investments and I thought I'd get this as a "nicer" field gun than my pretty worn VH 16g, but I also don't want to buy something that is worth a fraction of what I paid. I'm not sure if the restock bothers me or not, it sure is nicer in person than I expected and he said it can be returned if I'm not happy. All serial numbers match except the one missing from under the trigger guard. Any thoughts are appreciated.

[Andrew Sacco]

More

[Reggie Bishop]

Is that a gold inlay on the doll’s head? Can’t really tell from that pic but is the doll’s head complete and correct ? The fore-end latch is supposed to be case colored as is the tip metal.

[Andrew Sacco]

I can send another photo Reggie. It appears to be worn case coloring.

[Andrew Sacco]

It’s almost as if I prefer old worn guns. You know what you got...

[Andrew Sacco]

Better photo

[Andrew Sacco]

Here it is. photo from iphone so the colors suck, it's not that dark, they are greyish case colors on the breech balls not blued looking like this photo shows.

[Reggie Bishop]

Looks like the gun has been re-blued and re-stocked. Parts are blued that should be case colored. Nice piece of wood. The receiver appears original.

[Andrew Sacco]

As far as I can tell the receiver is original, serial numbers match, the "hidden" last three under the water table are correct, the barrel lug serial is correct. That's what I mean, still feeling my way at this I'm not sure if I should be upset about the blued parts. I could just go kill birds with it and wear the bluing off I guess. Could not be happier with the wood even if it's not original and dimensions are great for me. He said it was refinished or restocked by a guy name Pirelli 30 years ago, no further details available.

[Reggie Bishop]

Are you confident the barrels are on face? The last picture looks like the fit is “off”. I will defer to more expert opinions.

[John Davis]

Looks like a really nice gun to me. If it fits and hits targets, not sure what else there is to worry about.

[Brian Dudley]

Your suspicions are correct. The gun has been restocked, the frame has been recolored at some point, and been worn a lot since. And the top lever/forend latch and tip has been blued. These parts were NOT blued originally. The barrels look like they COULD be original finish.
It looks like a decent gun, but if you were hoping to buy an original gun, it isnt it.

[Andrew Sacco]

Brian I was not intending to buy an original gun as in investment to sock away and I knew going in this was either refinished or restocked. I'm sure most people want to be sure they can get some or most of their money back out of them if they have to.

[Steve Huffman]

Blow the picture of the dolls head up , does it look right ?

[Andrew Sacco]

More Reggie

[Steve Huffman]

Can you show the serial number on the barrel lug ?

[Andrew Sacco]

From the top

[Donald F. Mills]

I agree with Brian and Reggie. Odd that they blued the lever and forearm parts. Also when I enlarge your last picture I see what appears to be sanding marks where perhaps the barrels were reblued but not sanded correctly.

[Andrew Sacco]

Side

[Donald F. Mills]

Ok so now that the last picture is not the last I don’t see those marks in the newer images. Must have just been that last picture on the first page.

[edgarspencer]

Restocked in the Remington style; nose of the comb and no mullering. All of which can be fixed. If you like it, buy it. Buying guns doesn’t come with training wheels.

[Andrew Sacco]

Lug

[Andrew Sacco]

The very first thing that stuck out when I looked at it online was that comb nose Edgar. It looked a little different to me, but then looking at as many images as I could find of GH's on line, I did find some like that but couldn't tell if they were later guns or not. Yes, buying does come with training wheels...you guys. If I just bought things without asking and reading I think I'd be making a ton of mistakes (or more than I am). Which reminds me to say thank you to everyone.

[Jerry Harlow]

Andy,

It looks to me as if a new forearm was made at the same time from the same blank. A very nice job and beautiful wood. I would be proud to own and shoot it. The forearm latch and tip being blued would not be a killer for me as they can wear and age gracefully with use or be toned down.

[Mike Koneski]

Andy, if you like it, buy it. It’s a darn nice shooter! Enjoy it.

[Andrew Sacco]

Thank you Mike.

[Jerry Harlow]

Plus over serial number 200000 means it has the improved top lever coil spring encased in a tube which even if it breaks continues to work and the one piece sear springs which are an improvement over the older two piece ones.

I'm betting new wood like that today would cost you far more than the asking price which I don't know.

[Andrew Sacco]

I inquired about a custom stock once Jerry from an upstate ny maker. You’re more than correct. I couldn’t get this wood made for what I paid.

[Bruce Hering]

Andy:

I am also a user of the gun I buy. I want them to be close to right if not right and this gun would seem to be there.

Buy it, shoot it and enjoy it. Its a great looking gun.

[edgarspencer]

The very first thing that stuck out when I looked at it online was that comb nose Edgar. It looked a little different to me, but then looking at as many images as I could find of GH's on line, I did find some like that but couldn't tell if they were later guns or not. Yes, buying does come with training wheels...you guys.

It seemed my mother had Band-Aids on every shopping list. Sure I got loads of skinned knees when the wheels came off, but I learned to ride that thing a lot quicker, and had more fun too.
Your gun was made in Meriden, and the difference between the combs of Meriden guns, and Remington Ilion is what you noticed. To my mind's eye, the Meriden comb was more graceful. I do not believe Ilion butt plates had a widows peak, but Brian is the expert in that dept. If you look at Parker Reproductions, you'll see they have the Remington styled comb

[Brian Dudley]

That comb is not even correct for an Ilion era gun.
The comb, the cheeks and the bottom of the grip are dead givaways in regards to styling that tell you it is a restock.

Again... it looks like a fine gun. We are just answering your questions about originality or not.

Others have suggested some things about the barrels and their fitment in the dolls head area. I would agree that it at least looks like the barrels have been set back some at one time. The serial stamping on the barrels looks off to me, but the big question is if it matches in style to the frame and forend. If it does, then fine. If it is completely different, then the barrels could be replacements.

Dont you just love asking a bunch of people on the internet their opinions on some photos of a gun...?

[Garth Gustafson]

Sure it’s a restock, but mullered borders aside, that checkering pattern is spot on and looks well-executed on a beautiful piece of wood. Whoever stocked it did a nice job. If the barrels check out, I think you did real well on this purchase. Order a letter. Is this a 16ga 1 frame?

[Andrew Sacco]

Thank you Brian. I will have to look at the serial number stamps. How would they have a newer or different serial number stamped there? Factory replacement or fakes??? I will order the letter later. Garth, he said a guy named Pirelli did "stock work" 30 years ago, but that's not a name I can find on line. Yes, it's a #1 frame 28" barrels. I intend to put a number of field marks on it over the years, God willing.

[Andrew Sacco]

What is the best way to compare the barrel serial# to another???

[Bill Murphy]

The gauge, barrel length, versus price, determines whether it is an acceptable purchase. The room around the doll's head is a question, but no one can answer it.

[Donald F. Mills]

Andy,
What is being referred to in the stamping is whether the “font/script” of the numbers look like each other on the water table and lug. If the barrels are replacements and someone stamped the barrels to the same serial number the “font/script” could look different.

[Dave Noreen]

I find that this font style with no crosslets for the barrel lug serial number stamps starts sometime after the 191xxx serial number range.

93935

93936

[Dean Romig]

Regarding the space around the doll's head - especially beneath the "doll's" haircut and the "shoulders" of the frame is a definite indication that the barrels were loose on the frame or even off face and the act of adding metal to the joint or hook will necessarily cause this space. My conclusion is that this remedy was done and it shouldn't be loose today.





.

[Andrew Sacco]

I'm at work so unable to look closely at the serial number style until tonight. Dave my serial style looks similar to your lower image on first eyeball.

[edgarspencer]

I find that this font style with no crosslets for the barrel lug serial number stamps starts sometime after the 191xxx serial number range.

93935

93936

Dave, My sales manager of many years was in his own world when he got home doing Heraldry for jewelry engravers, and Coats of Arms for anyone who asked. If I didn't hear 'crosslets' a hundred times a week, it was rare. That style of stamping is so pleasing to the eye.

[Mike Koneski]

I'm at work so unable to look closely at the serial number style until tonight. Dave my serial style looks similar to your lower image on first eyeball.

What, can’t find any glasses at the office?? 😂😂

[Andrew Sacco]

What, can’t find any glasses at the office?? 😂😂

Bad...

[Andrew Sacco]

Ok. Now I’m home and not sure how this impacts the total picture. Serial numbers are different. How does one replace barrels with a similar number?????? The work of Parker Jihadists?? EDIT: not different, but different typeface

[Alfred Greeson]

They may have changed barrels, could have been pitted or maybe Damascus or someone may have just found a set of barrels more like they wanted to shoot. Sounds like the work may have been done 30 years ago when parts were more available and more people were available to do the work. We all wish we had bought more back then but diapers and groceries were more of a priority when the family was young. Nice looking gun with some good work done on it. If the price is right, enjoy it. I think we have the making of a new column in Parker Pages, "Adventures of Andy", looking for your next Parker. I enjoy your spirit and seeing you put up with us on this site but the wisdom you gain is worth the pain. Ha!

[Andrew Sacco]

Thank you Alfred! I enjoy "the hunt" as they say. So in this case, with the proper serial number, would that mean it was likely a factory barrel replacement? This is what confuses me. I imagine some gnarly dude in a dimly lit basement with a light bulb and dripping water forging fake Parker barrels for idiots like me... I'll order the research letter

[Brian Dudley]

Check the back side of your extractor. That will be numbered to match the gun as well. If not with the whole number, at least with the last 3-4 digits of the numbers.

[Andrew Sacco]

Every once in a while we have to have egg on our face and admit we don't know what we don't know. Dave (Researcher) just cleared this up for me. This appears to be a later gun where there are two different type faces used. MY idiotic assumption (never ASSUME) was that the differing typefaces meant for sure it was a fake/forged/replacement/non original set of barrels. I'll look behind the extractors per Brian. I am going to leave everyone alone for a while now on this matter and go shoot her.

[Bill Murphy]

Yup, the barrel font is correct for that serial number range. Dave beat me to it.

[Andrew Sacco]

Anyone who thinks membership is too expensive for this group is an idiot. Just saying.

[edgarspencer]

Most people that go to the trouble and expense of having a non original set of barrels fitted, also have the barrels re-stamped to match the gun. by 'non-original, I mean Genuine Parker barrels. Some think it's misleading, or unethical. I don't, and feel its appropriate the barrels be marked to the gun the are meant to fit, whether Parker Brothers or not.
With the exception of the small bores, 28 and .410, and to some degree, 20ga, there are plenty of orphaned barrels out there, and companies such as Krieghoff, Hambrusch, and others, have made barrels.

[Brian Dudley]

Andy,

Your gun got me thinking about serial number stamping on parkers and what "we" know about them.

Generally speaking the major numbers stamped on any gun (forend, water table and barrel lug) will match. Meaning that they were stamped with the same size and style of numbers. Not necessarily that they were stamped with THE exact same stamps, but just that the different work stations in the factory would have been using the same type of stamps. The size and style of number stamps varied a lot over the many years of manufacture. But generally the numbers were of a serif style up until about the time of your gun when they switched to a san-serif or more block type of letter style. And the numbers got larger. Even though in the earlier serif stamps there was some times when the numbers got bigger as well, then smaller again...

But, the variation in your gun being that the water table (and I assume forend) have the earlier type serif style and the barrel lug has the later type san-serif style. I rummaged around through what I have here and was able to find two different examples not long after your gun was made. A 210,000 range Trojan and a 219,000 range GHE. BOTH of them look the way yours does. So, it is apparent that around this time, the barrel were being stamped with the newer style stamp and the frames/forends with the older style. Whereas a later example I have here in the 225,000 range has the newer san-serif style letters on the frame/forend.

So, your gun, though it goes against what would generally be held to be "the way", is from a time when that was not really so.

[Andrew Sacco]

Thank you Brian, that explains a lot. And this has certainly been a learning lesson on this gun. Now let's see if I can smash a few clays at The Rock with it.

[edgarspencer]

The SN on my 202 range DHE16 is much the same, but the SN on one of the DDHE20s in close proximity is much smaller.

[Alfred Greeson]

Some discussion on changing numbers to match your frame, I once had a nice GH with Vulcan barrels, it was originally a Damascus barrel gun. The numbers can be changed but I doubt that anyone would change the rib, etc, or actually rebuild the barrels so you can be pretty sure when you see an orphaned set of barrels from Parker. I once saw a beautiful AH 16 and later found it was an AH 12 originally but I still wish I had bought it. I regret that the dealer never mentioned that it was not actually a 16 but I didn't ask so he wasn't dishonest, just not forthcoming and could see I was new to the game. Live and learn but if I had bought it and later found a set of 12 barrels, it would have been a sweet gun, even without original barrels and I didn't know what steel should have been on it and didn't even check to see if the numbers matched. Talk about a sheep waiting to be sheared! So we live and learn but you gotta love a Parker, call me prejudice but the best ever built.