8 gauge pre 1920 buckshot

[CraigThompson]

I recently saw a Parker letter for an 8 gauge with special instructions “to pattern close with buckshot” . This got me wondering if there actually was factory loaded 8 gauge buckshot once upon a time ?

[Craig Larter]

UMC 1900 Catalog $2.50 extra charge

[CraigThompson]

Wow 1000 rounds of 8 gauge for $80-100 ! I’d be happy paying that amount for a 100 .

[Kevin McCormack]

There are a few entries in the Order and Stock books for 8 and 10 gauge guns specifying close (tight) patterns with large buckshot for use on wolves and bears.

[CraigThompson]

There are a few entries in the Order and Stock books for 8 and 10 gauge guns specifying close (tight) patterns with large buckshot for use on wolves and bears.

The gun I saw the letter on was sent to Florida . Seems a bit unusual I thought . I have an EH factory original 28” gun that was asked to be choked “close” in the right barrel from what Chuck put in the letter . Now that ones either been opened up or they meant close shots in that particular gun . As that one has I think 8 or so points of construction . That EH didn’t stipulate coarse shot or buck just “close” .

[charlie cleveland]

I have some 8 ga Winchester brass shells loaded in buckshot I believe them to be factory loaded the way they are crimped...I have yet to see a factory loaded 8 ga paper shell in buckshot but I m sure there were some that were loaded by the factory..i also have some 8 ga paper shells loaded with 7 drams of black powder and 2 1/4 ounce of shot...this is the heavest American factory load I have seen...but I know that in Europe the 8 ga was loaded up to 3 ounces of shot..i forget how much powder was used....charlie

[Stan Hillis]

I know that in Europe the 8 ga was loaded up to 3 ounces of shot..i forget how much powder was used....charlie

One duck wouldn't be enough incentive to get me to touch off one of those. I'd have to be flock shooting to do it.

[Bruce Hering]

The gun I saw the letter on was sent to Florida . Seems a bit unusual I thought . I have an EH factory original 28” gun that was asked to be choked “close” in the right barrel from what Chuck put in the letter . Now that ones either been opened up or they meant close shots in that particular gun . As that one has I think 8 or so points of construction . That EH didn’t stipulate coarse shot or buck just “close” .

Craig:

I find you comment interesting based on "close and buckshot". When I was a kid growing up in New Jersey (read 50's and 60's) all we could use on deer was buckshot. My Dad sent two 12 gauge guns and a bunch of ammo down to some guy in South Carolina, as I remember, and had the barrels worked on to shoot tight patterns with what I believe was OO out to +30 yards or so. They both threw amazing patterns as I recall and many years later when I measured the chokes they were about .010 or IC. Unfortunately, both guns are gone now.

Those guns sure did a job on deer.

[CraigThompson]

Craig:

I find you comment interesting based on "close and buckshot". When I was a kid growing up in New Jersey (read 50's and 60's) all we could use on deer was buckshot. My Dad sent two 12 gauge guns and a bunch of ammo down to some guy in South Carolina, as I remember, and had the barrels worked on to shoot tight patterns with what I believe was OO out to +30 yards or so. They both threw amazing patterns as I recall and many years later when I measured the chokes they were about .010 or IC. Unfortunately, both guns are gone now.

Those guns sure did a job on deer.

I never had an intrest or need to try buckshot until I inherited my grandfathers W&C Scott crystal indicator 10 gauge . This gun however is tighter than normal and on the underside of both barrels it’s stamped “no ball shot only” or something like that . Anyway I started with a Ross Seyfried load for 1 1/4 ounces of shot pushed with 30 grains of SR7625 and adapted the basic load for buckshot round ball and slugs granted I only tried buckshot in the Scott . Anyway during that hunting season about ten years ago I knocked over my first deer ever using 00 in the Scott . Since that time I’ve killed quite a few deer using various 10 gauge doubles also a couple with a Parker 16 and my Handloaded buckshot . Now the kicker in this whole thing is the fact that rifles are legal in my county so generally I’ll climb a tree and bring a rifle and shotgun along if the deers inside thirty yards and I’m comfortable with the shot the shotgun will boom if it’s further or I think I can’t get the shotgun load to the deer well enough I’ll plunk it with a rifle . I’ve had a couple instances where I’d plunk one with a shotgun others would run off a ways and I’d plunk a second with a rifle . I should say I’m not overly worried about trophy racks I tend to shoot Uhm as I see uhm . And we have doe days all season with a limit of two per day so my yearly totals sometimes creep up a bit .

[Dave Noreen]

I have some 8 ga Winchester brass shells loaded in buckshot I believe them to be factory loaded the way they are crimped..

I've not seen a catalog listing of factory loaded brass shells. From the 1870 into the 1930s our ammunition companies offered brass NPEs for Nimrods to load with black powder only. From the 1923 Remington catalog --

93693

The only factory loaded brass shells I know of is the 00 Buck 12-gauge shells for the government from WW-II to Viet Nam --

93712

the Ducks Unlimited 25th Anniversary 12-gauge shells from Remington --

93694

And the U.S. Cartridge Co. brass 2-inch .410-bore shells that held the 3/8 ounce load of the 2 1/2 inch paper shell in a 2-inch shell.

93695

[CraigThompson]

I've not seen a catalog listing of factory loaded brass shells. From the 1870 into the 1930s our ammunition companies offered brass NPEs for Nimrods to load with black powder only. From the 1923 Remington catalog --

93693

The only factory loaded brass shells I know of is the 00 Buck 12-gauge shells for the government from WW-II to Viet Nam, the Ducks Unlimited 25th Anniversary 12-gauge shells from Remington --

93694

And the U.S. Cartridge Co. brass 2-inch .410-bore shells that held the 3/8 ounce load of the 2 1/2 inch paper shell in a 2-inch shell.

93695

Might you have something in your archives on 8 gauge paper buckshot loads that were pre 1920ish .

[Alfred Greeson]

I once read about a Parker 12 that was ordered with the instructions -"pattern to shoot close with buckshot" The old fellow was a bear hunter in Canada.

[Dave Noreen]

From what I've seen only Winchester and Union Metallic Cartridge Co. later Remington Arms - Union Metallic Cartridge Co., etc. offered 4-gauge NPEs and 8-gauge loaded shells and NPEs. None from Western Cartridge Co., Peters Cartridge Co. or U.S. Cartridge Co.

Union Metallic Cartridge Co. 1900 --

93705

1901 --

93703

1905 --

93704

1909 --

93702

93711

Remington Arms - Union Metallic Cartridge Co. 1913-14 --

93707

93709

The Remington Arms Union Metallic Cartridge Co., Inc. 1918-19 --

93708

93710

[CraigThompson]

I once read about a Parker 12 that was ordered with the instructions -"pattern to shoot close with buckshot" The old fellow was a bear hunter in Canada.

Was that the one Jason Peck wrote an article about and later sold it to a descendent of the original owner ? That was somewhere in Cannanada .

[Tom Flanigan]

Buckshot was illegal in New York when I was a kid. But in those days that meant little to me. There was a thick swamp close to the house that the deer frequented. It was a perfect setup for buckshot, so I went to work testing different buckshot handloads. I settled on #1 buck which patterned well from the modified barrel of my grandfather’s 12 bore DHE. I melted candle wax over the shot column and used plastic wraps that I purchased from Herter’s. I killed a few deer with buckshot which included a big eight pointer. I sure was proud of myself.

[Dave Noreen]

From going through my old ammunition catalogs it certainly seems the the specific Buck Shot offerings were in 10-, 12-, 16- and 20-gauge shells.

93723

93722

From 1900 to 1909 UMC just mentioned a bit extra cost for Buck Shot loads. From 1910 through 1919 the Buck Shot loads were listed as the ones from the 1911-12 Rem - UMC catalog I show above. I suspect that the demand for 8-gauge Buck Shot loads was so small that they were never a catalog symbol item.

The only Winchester catalog of the period I have is 1916, and it's Buck Shot load offerings mirrors the Rem UMC Buck Shot offerings shown above. While Rem-UMC only cataloged 8-gauge loads with black or bulk smokeless powders, I see Winchester offered their 8-gauge LEADER shells loaded with dense smokeless powders as well.

[Bruce Hering]

Buckshot was illegal in New York when I was a kid. But in those days that meant little to me. There was a thick swamp close to the house that the deer frequented. It was a perfect setup for buckshot, so I went to work testing different buckshot handloads. I settled on #1 buck which patterned well from the modified barrel of my grandfather’s 12 bore DHE. I melted candle wax over the shot column and used plastic wraps that I purchased from Herter’s. I killed a few deer with buckshot which included a big eight pointer. I sure was proud of myself.

Tom:

Not to hi Jack a thread but....

I have always found interesting the difference in regulations between NY and NJ. No slugs were allowed in Jersey until more recent history yet back in the day we could go a half mile from the last house I liven in in Jersey and be in Rockland Co. NY and shoot slugs.... Go figure.

[Tom Flanigan]

Tom:

Not to hi Jack a thread but....

I have always found interesting the difference in regulations between NY and NJ. No slugs were allowed in Jersey until more recent history yet back in the day we could go a half mile from the last house I liven in in Jersey and be in Rockland Co. NY and shoot slugs.... Go figure.

I never could understand the use of buckshot only in NJ. I would hate to have to hunt with it exclusively. I guess the reason was that it was a populous state. Even so, allowing the use of slugs was a wise decision.

I never took a shot over 40 yards with buckshot and made damn sure that I knew what my buckshot loads were capable of. i shot a lot of paper back in those days. The right modified barrel of the DHE was a sure killer at 40 yards with #1 buck but things fell apart after that.

The problem with buckshot is that the average hunter has no idea how his gun shoots with buckshot. He just grabs a box of 00 buck (I never had a gun that would pattern them worth a damn) and probably takes shots he shouldn't. I'll bet the percentage of wounded deer went down in NJ after slugs were allowed.

[CraigThompson]

I never could understand the use of buckshot only in NJ. I would hate to have to hunt with it exclusively. I guess the reason was that it was a populous state. Even so, allowing the use of slugs was a wise decision.

I never took a shot over 40 yards with buckshot and made damn sure that I knew what my buckshot loads were capable of. i shot a lot of paper back in those days. The right modified barrel of the DHE was a sure killer at 40 yards with #1 buck but things fell apart after that.

The problem with buckshot is that the average hunter has no idea how his gun shoots with buckshot. He just grabs a box of 00 buck (I never had a gun that would pattern them worth a damn) and probably takes shots he shouldn't. I'll bet the percentage of wounded deer went down in NJ after slugs were allowed.

When I first started doing the buckshot thing with my grandfathers old Scott I only had 00 to load and it did okay to about 25-30 yards . Have an Ithaca NID 10 Super that we’d owned thirty years and never fired so I tried it on paper as well . Anyway to make a long story short over the last eighteen years I’ve spent a fair amount of time fooling with buckshot in everything from an 8 gauge down to the little 28 gauge . I’ve also put a decent amount of time in slugs for all the same gauges . To a lesser degree the punkin ball (round ball ) as well in the 8 , 10 and 12 . So in most cases now if I’m in a treestand the double barrel will have buck in whichever barrel patterns better and a slug in the barrel that shoots closer to point of aim at 25-30 yards . I’ve been fortunate with the 10 gauge having killed deer with every size buck from #3 up to 00000 . Also with all three of my 10 gauge suitable slugs although I’ve not plunked one with a punkin ball yet .

[charlie cleveland]

your probably right about there never being a factory loaded brass shell for buckshot except those for the military snd those duck boxes of Remington buckshot...I always find the researching of your very enjoyable...thanks charlie