Rifled Slug/Ball Deer Side by Side

[jefferyconnor]

I received a couple old Double Gun Journals recently and Sherman Bell had an article about a rifled 12 gauge side by side with Hastings barrels fitted up. Does anyone happen to have any guns like that they could post about, maybe with pictures? I'm interested in original or custom shotguns set up to fire slugs or balls. I searched here and found out that Parker actually made original guns that way too. Dewey Vicknair made a custom Fox like that also. Besides that, CSMC makes 20 gauge rifle shotguns.

[Jay Gardner]

I received a couple old Double Gun Journals recently and Sherman Bell had an article about a rifled 12 gauge side by side with Hastings barrels fitted up. Does anyone happen to have any guns like that they could post about, maybe with pictures? I'm interested in original or custom shotguns set up to fire slugs or balls. I searched here and found out that Parker actually made original guns that way too. Dewey Vicknair made a custom Fox like that also. Besides that, CSMC makes 20 gauge rifle shotguns.

Jaquas had one a decade or more ago. An English gun marked for buck and ball. The barrels were not rifled but there were twists visible in the barrels, almost like twisted ripples. It was a neat gun, I can’t recall make but it was not a name I recognized.

Jay

[charlie cleveland]

there was a 16 ga lc smith double rifled slug gun floating around for sale a few years back on the auction sites...I should have bought it.our own brian was making a slug gun a few years back maybe he will chime in about it...I too have always been interested in these guns...I shoot a parker 8 ga lifter with 2 ounce round balls but it is not accurate beyond 30 yards...it will kill a deer quick if you can hit him or her.....charlie

[CraigThompson]

One of the auction houses had a Parker 12 gauge hammerless in the last two years that was supposedly rifled . Seems to me it was Rock Island , I was called to do a phone bid but it shot above what I was willing to go so I never made a bid .

[CraigThompson]

FWIW , I cast my own slugs for the 10 , 12 , 16 , 20 and 28 all in the design of the Lyman 525 sabot slug ( if you don’t know what they’re like they look like a air rifle pellet on steroids ) . I also cast a couple other slugs for the 8 and 10 gauges as well as roundballs for the 8 , 10 and 12 . But to meet my parameters they only need to do well out to 25 or 30 yards . I do however have a GH 16 with slightly snipped barrels that shoots my slugs well out to 50 yards . My only rifled shotguns any longer are a Savage 220 bolt slug gun and a Jastings barrel for an A-5 Magnum .

[jefferyconnor]

FWIW , I cast my own slugs for the 10 , 12 , 16 , 20 and 28 all in the design of the Lyman 525 sabot slug ( if you don’t know what they’re like they look like a air rifle pellet on steroids ) . I also cast a couple other slugs for the 8 and 10 gauges as well as roundballs for the 8 , 10 and 12 . But to meet my parameters they only need to do well out to 25 or 30 yards . I do however have a GH 16 with slightly snipped barrels that shoots my slugs well out to 50 yards . My only rifled shotguns any longer are a Savage 220 bolt slug gun and a Jastings barrel for an A-5 Magnum .

I wonder how much more accurate the rifling actually makes foster slugs or balls anyway? Sherman Bell's gun was a Greener I think with sleeved Hastings barrels. It's got to be expensive to have that done!

[Jim McKee]

The H&H paradox SXS were/are very accurate at 100 yds +
Jim

[jefferyconnor]

The H&H paradox SXS were/are very accurate at 100 yds +
Jim

Those were only rifled at the end of the barrels, right?

[Jim McKee]

yes

[Bill Murphy]

There is a 28 gauge Purdey paradox gun floating around recently. It sold at Alderfer's several years ago but my bid was not aggressive enough. I had the gun lettered and it is for real. The letter is in my files.

[William Davis]

Friend of mine has a Paradox 12 G English SxS Hammer gun. Built about 1870. He shoots it well Round ball & Black powder. It much admired by the other competitors using more modern Big bores in the stopping rifle class when we were operating the running target outfit at Vintage cup. Target runs about 60 to 20 yards & reverse. Diagonal and charging 2 shots for score.

Recoil much less than the smokeless African Cartridge guns. Paid off in scores. 50 yards moving target probably what the gun was built for

William

[keavin nelson]

I have a friend who has a Manton paradox, which he shoots slugs in, does very well out to 50yds.

[jefferyconnor]

I wonder about fitting up a set of cut-down shotgun barrels to a Parker, add a rifle rear sight and see how it does with factory slugs at 50 yards. The accuracy might not be too bad, or adequate.
On a related note, does anyone know how did Parker and others choke buckshot guns to group best with buckshot? I suppose factory letters may have referenced that at times, if anyone bought Parkers for deer hunting, and I have to guess some did.

[CraigThompson]

I wonder how much more accurate the rifling actually makes foster slugs or balls anyway? Sherman Bell's gun was a Greener I think with sleeved Hastings barrels. It's got to be expensive to have that done!

Rifling is a waste of time for Foster slugs in my opinion . For punkin balls it may or may not help I’ve never tried , although I’ve seen some Ross Seyfried articles where he paper patched roundballs and shot them in double rifles . Obviously at ignition a roundball will obturate some initially and give the rifling more surface to grip . My two rifled barrels have only tasted factory sabot slugs so all the rifling touched was plastic .

[CraigThompson]

This was with a GH 12 gauge 28” Damascus gun shooting my home cast Lyman 525 sabot slug . The hollow cavity was filled with hot glue and it was nestled in a CB knock off of a AA12 wad . Plunked this deer at 26 yards boom flop .

[Nick de Guerre]

You really should try a box of Sluggers (or other) just to see how your guns like them. I've tried, just for kicks, in several Lefevers and what I found is some guns shoot them surprisingly accurately out to 50, while others arent consistent enough for me to want to attempt an ethical shot on a deer. The manufacturers have improved the plastic "fins" enough that they do achieve some degree of rifling, I believe.

I'll leave it at this. If you find they work well enough to put 3 shots into a dinner plate at 50, it probably isnt worth the effort and money seeking to build a true Sabot slug gun (or choke). At least not for any reason other than you're just wanting a new project.

After several rounds of these you'll have newfound respect for your old 30-30...which will feel like a .270 compared to slugs in your double!

NDG

[jefferyconnor]

This was with a GH 12 gauge 28” Damascus gun shooting my home cast Lyman 525 sabot slug . The hollow cavity was filled with hot glue and it was nestled in a CB knock off of a AA12 wad . Plunked this deer at 26 yards boom flop .

Way to go! That is so cool, I love the stock repair on your gun.

[CraigThompson]

Way to go! That is so cool, I love the stock repair on your gun.

The gun was manufactured in 1892 I suspect the “fix” was made pre 1940 or so .

[Daryl Corona]

Craig;
How was your GH choked in .001's?

[CraigThompson]

Craig;
How was your GH choked in .001's?

To be honest I’ve not measured it . But I think those barrels have been honed and of course I suspect the chokes opened atleast a bit .

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Interesting, I have a lifter that started life as a 12ga 32" grade 2, and now is a double rifle, 44-40 the barrels were sleeved by somebody do not know who, but the BWT is around 1/4" gun weighs north of 12 lbs the barrels have leaf sites and sling swivels on stock and barrels, I believe the only way to be accurate is to use a tripod, Thought it may have been done by the Meriden Rifle Co, they sleeved a couple of Parkers and brought them to Parker outings back when for them to see, but have no records of this letter just says grade 2 12ga, It is a interesting gun though, Gary

[Larry Stauch]

Here's a little information on real Paradox guns. And then here's one for sale on GI.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/shotguns/holland-holland-shotguns/holland-holland-paradox-gun-12-ga.cfm?gun_id=101596545
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[charlie cleveland]

that's a interesting post...charlie

[Dennis E. Jones]

I wonder about fitting up a set of cut-down shotgun barrels to a Parker, add a rifle rear sight and see how it does with factory slugs at 50 yards. The accuracy might not be too bad, or adequate.
On a related note, does anyone know how did Parker and others choke buckshot guns to group best with buckshot? I suppose factory letters may have referenced that at times, if anyone bought Parkers for deer hunting, and I have to guess some did.

A friend had a 1889 Remington 10 bore that was stamped on the lug 12-00, where you would see the shot numbers, which we both thought meant 12 double-ought buckshot. He used it as a turkey gun and did quite well with it shooting regular size shot.

[Larry Stauch]

Just as a follow up, there is one of the few H&H 28 gauges coming up at the Rock Island May auction.
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[Bill Murphy]

I really regret not bidding aggressively enough on the 28 gauge Purdey paradox a couple of years ago.