Damascus barrels added later

[bruce willis]

Was it common for people who had a fluid steel barrel Parker to send it back to Parker for 2nd set of Damascus barrels instead of fluid steel?

[Dean Romig]

If it is documented it's the first I've heard of it.





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[JAMES HALL]

Yes. It has been documented.

[Dean Romig]

That’s very interesting. I’ve never seen documentation of it, can someone post a research letter documenting the request?





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[Paul Ehlers]

Here's a PGCA letter for a VH-12 that left the factory with Vulcan steel barrels & was returned to have a set of Damascus barrels fitted to it. I own the gun and it is still wearing the factory fit Damascus barrels.

[ED J, MORGAN]

To answer your question. No, it was not common . It would be quite rare to find any.

[Matt Buckley]

This speaks to what shooters thought of Damascus barrels in the day. Very interesting Parker history.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Well, It was done by Parker, I had a gun that was such and gave it to my son, he still has it, this one is not Damascus but twist, Very interesting to read what was done when the gun was sent back four months later, As the letter says it was a VH Hammerless 16 gauge with 30 inch barrels and it was a 1-1/2 frame which was not in the letter but stamped on the barrel lug. You talking about a swamped barrel the 20 ga set was! to accommodate the frame size, also the barrels were just cut off no line at the end of the matting sorry I do not have photos of the gun, maybe I can get my son to take some. A very interesting piece! Gary

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Some one with a better brain than mine please rotate this letter, thanks

[JAMES HALL]

Same thing with the copy of my letter in Alaska thread. A copy moved to this thread possible?

[James L. Martin]

How's this

[James L. Martin]

Other letter

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Here are some photos of the gun, Gary

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

I guess the pad was added to give a longer LOP than the original 13-1/2, Gary

[bruce willis]

Thanks so much for the info. Very interesting. From what I’ve read at the turn of the century many hunters and shooters believed Damascus was better than fluid steel. Even sending Purdys back to the shop and having their fluid steel barrels replaced with Damascus ones. So there a parkers with both factory fluid and Damascus steel sets of barrels but many don’t know they exist.

[Russell E. Cleary]

Reportedly, Lord Walsingham (1843-1919) changed the Whitworth (fluid) steel barrels on some of his guns for Damascus, as the composite steel he deemed less prone to inducing a headache.

This, from Wikipedia, tells of the event that prompted the nobleman’s “changed mind” on gun barrels.

“On 30 August 1888, Lord Walsingham had a remarkable day shooting on Blubberhouses Moor, Yorkshire, when he killed 1070 grouse. The day started at 05:12 with the first of twenty drives, assisted by two teams of forty beaters, two loaders and four guns. During the sixteenth drive he shot 94 grouse in 21 minutes; a killing rate of one every 13 seconds. The last drive finished at 18:45 and his Lordship managed to shoot fourteen on the walk home.”

[bruce willis]

It’s amazing so much to learn. Some have knowledge about certain things, others aren’t aware of them. Getting back into this is certainly an education and learning experience.

[Bruce Hering]

Reportedly, Lord Walsingham (1843-1919) changed the Whitworth (fluid) steel barrels on some of his guns for Damascus, as the composite steel he deemed less prone to inducing a headache.

This, from Wikipedia, tells of the event that prompted the nobleman’s “changed mind” on gun barrels.

“On 30 August 1888, Lord Walsingham had a remarkable day shooting on Blubberhouses Moor, Yorkshire, when he killed 1070 grouse. The day started at 05:12 with the first of twenty drives, assisted by two teams of forty beaters, two loaders and four guns. During the sixteenth drive he shot 94 grouse in 21 minutes; a killing rate of one every 13 seconds. The last drive finished at 18:45 and his Lordship managed to shoot fourteen on the walk home.”

That is some kind of shooting. No wonder he had a headache.

[Stan Hillis]

On one trip to Argentina for doves I figured up the fire rate after I left to come home. I averaged one shell fired per 15 seconds of shooting time, and I was holding back all I could stand. That was shooting an O/U too, not a jammamatic. No problems with headaches, but I was only shooting 7/8 oz. 20 gauge loads. I wasn't trapping the hulls, either. I was letting them hit the ground behind me.

Next trip I averaged over 1000 doves a day, in two three hour shifts each day. Knowing what the numbers of birds necessary to make a bag that size looks like I can hardly imagine how there could have been enough grouse in the countryside to accomplish that feat. Must've been an amazing sight.

[Garry L Gordon]

On one trip to Argentina for doves I figured up the fire rate after I left to come home. I averaged one shell fired per 15 seconds of shooting time, and I was holding back all I could stand. That was shooting an O/U too, not a jammamatic. No problems with headaches, but I was only shooting 7/8 oz. 20 gauge loads. I wasn't trapping the hulls, either. I was letting them hit the ground behind me.

Next trip I averaged over 1000 doves a day, in two three hour shifts each day. Knowing what the numbers of birds necessary to make a bag that size looks like I can hardly imagine how there could have been enough grouse in the countryside to accomplish that feat. Must've been an amazing sight.

No wonder you are such a good dove shot. Practice makes perfect.

[bruce willis]

It’s hard to imagine that much shooting compared to our meager limits and shooting opportunities her in CA.

[Harry Collins]

This amount of shooting might explain why the Brits sent their guns back to the factory to be refinished each year. On this side of the pond I have found Parkers and other makes lovingly taken care of with the checkering barely visible, shiney receivers and breach.

[bruce willis]

Very true. We walk and carry a lot, shoot very very little...

[Drew Hause]

https://books.google.com/books?id=4xRmHkr7Lp8C&pg=PA175&source
“On August 30 (1888), when I killed 1,070 grouse to my own gun in the day, I shot with four breechloaders. No.1, a gun made in 1866 by Purdey, subsequently converted from pin-fire to central principle, to which new barrels were made last year. Nos. 2 and 3, a pair of central fire breechloaders, made also by Purdey, about 1870, for which I have likewise had new barrels. No. 4, a new gun made by Purdey this year to match the two mentioned above, but with Whitworth steel instead of Damascus barrels. The guns are all 12 bore, with cylinder 30 in. barrels, not choked.”
“My cartridges were loaded by Johnson, of Swaffham; those used in the down-wind drives containing 3 1/8 drs. Hall’s Field B powder to 1 1/8 ozs. No. 5 Derby shot; those used in the up-wind drives (where the birds, of course, came slower) had 3 drs. only of the same powder, with the same shot; not hardened shot in either case.”
“I find I never go out shooting without learning something. If I had the day again, I should cut off the extra eighth of an ounce of shot, not on account of recoil or discomfort of kind – from which I never suffer, although always using black powder – but because I failed to get as much penetration at long distances as I do with an ounce only. I distinctly remember firing three barrels at one bird, striking well in the body every time, but killing dead only with the last shot; the powder seemed to burn too slow.”
“Another thing I learned was that Whitworth steel barrels are not desirable for a heavy day’s shooting. The explosion in them makes quite a different sound from that given off by Damascus barrels: there is more ring about it, and I can imagine that this might prove a serious annoyance to anyone who minds the noise of shooting. I have no recollection myself of ever having had a headache from gun-firing. Moreover, the Whitworth barrels become hot much more rapidly than the Damascus; and this is a serious drawback, especially to a man who shoots without gloves. I can well imagine that they last much longer, and are in many ways suited for ordinary light work; but am now replacing them with Damascus, as in all my other guns.”

[bruce willis]

WOW very interesting. Lots to learn. Never say never, never say always about Parker Guns...

[Russell E. Cleary]

Drew:

Good research. Your quote is from a written account of the man himself. It appears that my source, a secondary one, was wrong about Lord Walsingham suffering a headache from the Whitworth (fluid steel) barrels.

I suppose that it is unlikely, anyway, that a resolute and urbane Victorian sportsman would be complaining, after a triumphal day afield, about something as trite as a headache. His reason for the change to Damascus was more practical.