DHE 16 Gauge SST Vent Rib:

[Bruce P Bruner]

Hello, I've been looking for a decent damascus side by side in 12 gauge to shoot my full brass hulled black powder shells that I had previously used in a near mint Remington 1889 that I let slip away. Anyway while checking out the normal sites that thousands of eyes have already seen I checked out an old but familiar venue, Cabela's. The listing must have been brand new because it wasn't listed on Guns International "New Today". So after a short mental deliberation I made the call. They will disassemble the gun and bubble wrap each piece and ship it to Thornton, Co. That is the closest store to me. I asked them for a sweeter deal and the very friendly Library employee said they had just acquired the piece and he wasn't allowed to make a reduction. Oh well, I'll be in the gun for $2K plus the local tax and the background fee. Fair enough. The DHE is listed in my Parker serialization book with "19" listed as the extra code, ejectors, single selective trigger and vent rib. The book also verified the 30" barrels. The DOM shows it to be the 44th gun made in 1938. The water table is stamped "MERIDEN, CONN.", perhaps one of the last ones made there before the Parker operations were moved to Ilion, NY. The serial number is 241198. The Cabela's link (while it lasts) (gone now) is
https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/100967205
I just wanted to share my joy with the membership and perhaps receive some feedback on the Parker. I've been a member here in the past but the system required me to start over with a new membership. The gun isn't without distractions but in my opinion it was money well spent. I also have first right of refusal, so if I'm unhappy with the viewing they will refund my purchase. Though I don't foresee that happening.

[todd allen]

BTW, a friend of mine has a Grade 3 Remington 1889 in excellent condition that he might sell.
PM me if you're interested, and I'll get you in touch with him.

[Dean Romig]

Bruce my friend, you absolutely “STOLE” that gun!!!





.

[Bob Jurewicz]

You just hit the jackpot!!!!
Bob Jurewicz

[todd allen]

Bruce my friend, you absolutely “STOLE” that gun!!!



.

I agree. I think that gun would have been a deal at twice that price.

[Brett Hoop]

Take some snap caps along. If they will allow you, check the ejectors, the right ejector hammer has released. Nice looking Parker. And I would pick up a lottery ticket also.

[Dean Romig]

I agree. I think that gun would have been a deal at twice that price.

Even at 3X or more...





.

[Bruce P Bruner]

Gentlemen I appreciate all the accolades...really. I was hoping to generate some discussion about it. It must be only one of a handful in that configuration. The first question I asked the salesman was "What does the stamping on the rib say? I was wondering what type of Parker steel the barrels were made of. Well, unlike Parker Parkers this late "R" word gun has no arrows or identifying roll stamps on the rib. Oh well. I tried to view the underside of the barrel joint to see if it had a T in a circle, I do see a circle, but no TI3. I enjoy research as much as the hunt.

[Mike Franzen]

That was a buy of a lifetime.

[Dean Romig]

It is a Remington-made gun produced in Ilion and the rarity of the 30” 16 gauge barrels with the vent rib was a special order gun and the barrels and rib were most likely made in Ilion and not from parts that came from Meriden hence, no marking on the rib. However, the empty circle on the flats seems to indicate the unfinished barrels might have come from Meriden. But none of that would have been recorded and is all speculation.




.

[Jerry Harlow]

Must have just promoted the manager of the fishing department to head of pricing in the gun room.

[Joe Graziano]

Wow, what a fantastic Parker! If you ever get tired of it, just let me know:)

[Brian Dudley]

That was a good buy. Congrats!

[Dave Noreen]

That is quite the transitional gun. First I've recorded with the grade and gauge on the side of the lug but not the chamber length. Says Meriden, Conn. on the right watertable. By 241233 it is Ilion, N.Y. Earlier guns in the 239xxx and 240xxx range that I have pictures of the watertable have Parker Bros. and some Patent dates on the right side.

[Alfred Greeson]

Wow, What a deal, some clean livin as they say down South! Congrats!

[Bruce P Bruner]

The original Cabela's listing has been removed due to the gun having been sold, however the listing is now available on Guns International "New Listings". I'm enclosing the link for those who missed out on the earlier link.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/shotguns/parker-shotguns/parker-bros-dh-16-gauge.cfm?gun_id=101602458

When I take possession of the shotgun I will gladly contribute my own photos for the forum membership.

[Paul Ehlers]

The link you supplied doesn't work for me, but I did notice this on GI this morning under new today. This one is a super nice gun that looks right in all respects and one he*l of a steal of a deal. Cabela's missed the boat on this one. Congrat's!!!!

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/shotguns/parker-shotguns/parker-bros-dh-16-gauge.cfm?gun_id=101602458

[Larry Stauch]

I think it's wonderful that one of the members here was lucky enough to get that gun and share it with us, as opposed to some random person looking for a 16 gauge to shoot.
Congratulation Bruce!!:cheers:

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Only one glaring fault with that gun:
it doesnt belong to me:)

[Dave Noreen]

The date code on the left barrel flat is KG (K = May, G = 1938) and it is stamped in the location they generally used after the move to Ilion and has some of the often seen Ilion inspector's marks.

[Bruce P Bruner]

The subject Parker arrived 2nd Day Air, and was delivered to Thornton, Co. late Friday. However, it was too late in the day for me to travel and secure it. Today I was on the road at 8:00am to finish the deal. It was still company sealed in a hard case when they presented me the shotgun in the Library. My first hands on inspection revealed no negative surprises. Whew! The positive items of note were that there is much more case color present than I had anticipated and the extremely well fitted recoil pad is marked "Frey Mershon Inc." at the top and "Pat. Ped." & "L.A. CAL." at the bottom, a period correct pad. The furniture is well preserved with minimal marks of note, while the blueing is also very nice, deep and consistent. The bores are immaculate. The grip cap reads "Parker Bros Meridan, Conn."
Somehow one of the ejection hammers was sprung and I recocked it when I got home. The forend fits vey tight when it snaps in.
Once home I measured the bores at the muzzle with a mic and determined the Right Bore measured .650 for a constriction of .012 (Between Skeet II & Mod.) and the Left Bore measured .635 for constriction of .027 (Full Choke). Probably not the correct way to measure but I am curious by nature.
The length of pull is right at 14" while the drop at the heel was 2.25", measured from the top of the barrel, not the top of the ventilated rib. Here again not terribly scientific but when I shoulder it my eye lines up perfectly down the rib to the front bead. There is a tiny ivory mid bead but I can't really even see it.
I have to wonder when the shotgun was ordered with all of the splendid special order features just what was the intended purpose? With the 30" barrels and a ventilated rib perhaps a mild recoiling trap gun is what he/she had in mind. A 1938 gun with production details on IBM cards no doubt won't reveal much but I intend to order one anyway.
So, it was a fine day and I appreciate the feedback from the experienced folks on the forum.

[J. Scott Hanes]

What did you eat for Breakfast that day???? Timing is 'everything'!
Absolutely beautiful Parker and one of the best finds I have ever heard of. I disagree with Dean Romig....4x the price!!

[Rich Anderson]

congratulations on a very nice buy. Typical of Cabela's either they are way over priced or under valued. Their customary mark up is 30% so someone let it go for around $1400.:shock:
Is there a slight crack in the forearm between the latch and the receiver? It's hard to tell from the picture, it might just be a checkering line.

[Bruce P Bruner]

Yes C.O. B. you are correct. I'm not sure if it affects the ability to shoot it. I don't have the skill set to repair it but Mr. Bachelder has done stock work for me in the past with super human results. You have to be very patient though, quality work is slow and with his back log it's difficult to know when I'd get it back. I really want to shoot some clay's with it, maybe just a few to get the feel of the gun. The gun locks up vault tight and has no play in the head. The forearm is very tight fitting when locked in place.

[Rich Anderson]

I wouldn't shoot it until that crack is stabilized. Where do you live? There is a VERY competent smith near me that could easily and quickly fix that.

[Bill Murphy]

Wendy Jo Guernsey send me an apologetic email from Cabela's thanking me for my business. She regrets that the gun I offered to purchase was sold. Oh, well.

[Bruce P Bruner]

Wendy Jo Guernsey sent me an email also, with the tracking number and thanked me for my business. She did an excellent job of packaging the shotgun with the gun disassembled and each piece double bubble wrapped in a hard case per my request.

[Bruce P Bruner]

https://i.postimg.cc/Wbr4Lcfv/Parker-3.jpg (https://postimages.org/)screen shot windows 7 (https://postimages.org/app)
https://i.postimg.cc/nV3zY1jy/Parker-1-A.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Bruce P Bruner]

https://i.postimg.cc/B6QCkgqr/Parker-4.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
https://i.postimg.cc/G34fpLCZ/Parker-2.jpg (https://postimages.org/)screenshot (https://postimages.org/app)

[Russ Jackson]

I called Cabelas and sent a message I'll Take It !!!! But the lady called and said it just sold ! Congratulations on a Great Buy !

[Bruce P Bruner]

New photos and some items of note:
Stunning wood for a DH Parker, Thank you Remington!
Trigger is serialized to the gun.
The Frey Mershon "White Line" Pad is in real nice shape, except it's petrified. I'm leaving it as is.
Pistol Grip Cap say's "Parker Bros Meriden Conn". Gutta-percha?
I ordered 100 Magtech Brass shells & appropriate wads. I'll load light square loads of the "Holy Black" for recreational clay's with the family. We shoot at a very informal area known as the "Pawnee Grasslands".

[Dean Romig]

That is one amazing Parker!!... and the price! :shock::whistle:





.

[Joe Graziano]

That is a gorgeous shotgun. Congratulations on a great purchase.

[Larry Mason]

Wow! Absolutely stunning.

[Mike Koneski]

I hear the Sheriff Department on the scanner, they are coming for you for stealing this gun!!!! :shock::rotf:

[John Davis]

Is there a particular reason you are going to shoot black powder? (If I understood your post correctly.)

[Bruce P Bruner]

My reasoning is twofold. First, I have a good supply of Black Powder & components and secondly, 7/8 ounce shot loads will be mild in terms of recoil for an 80+ year old stock. I am experienced in loading Black Powder in 12 gauge, 45-70, 45-75 and 45-90. The only disadvantage I have experienced is having to clean the breech chambers frequently when shooting all brass shot shells and the barrels do get very hot. I don't mind, I'm used to wiping between shots with my BP rifles. I think it's faster to clean a BP bore than with shooting smokeless, though I do stay on top with frequent cleaning so it's much easier at the end of the day. Water is still cheap and I'm pretty sure the shotgun doesn't care one way or the other.
I'm not opposed to using smokeless. I have a case of RST "Falcon Light" that should be a great load for the DH. I have a good supply of Super X 2-1/2 Dram Equivalent, 1oz. size 8 shot and Federal 2-1/2 Dr. Eq. 1oz. 7-1/2 shot. The stated velocity of the Federal is 1165fps. That's faster than any published Parker recommendations. I am not really comfortable using these in my 1938 Parker, but I'm all ears to hear your point of view.
I just checked the RST page and two flats of the "Falcon Light" plus shipping came to $405.00 ... My my!

[JAMES HALL]

I don't think I would take the chance of the heat from the black powder loosening the rib.

[Bruce P Bruner]

I wasn't aware that heat could be an issue with the rib. Are you aware of any occurrences of that happening? Considering the total production of VR Parkers I would be surprised if there were any reported incidents of rib fatigue. I'm not discounting your observation and I appreciate it.

[Dean Romig]

My reasoning is twofold. First, I have a good supply of Black Powder & components and secondly, 7/8 ounce shot loads will be mild in terms of recoil for an 80+ year old stock. I am experienced in loading Black Powder in 12 gauge, 45-70, 45-75 and 45-90. The only disadvantage I have experienced is having to clean the breech chambers frequently when shooting all brass shot shells and the barrels do get very hot. I don't mind, I'm used to wiping between shots with my BP rifles. I think it's faster to clean a BP bore than with shooting smokeless, though I do stay on top with frequent cleaning so it's much easier at the end of the day. Water is still cheap and I'm pretty sure the shotgun doesn't care one way or the other.
I'm not opposed to using smokeless. I have a case of RST "Falcon Light" that should be a great load for the DH. I have a good supply of Super X 2-1/2 Dram Equivalent, 1oz. size 8 shot and Federal 2-1/2 Dr. Eq. 1oz. 7-1/2 shot. The stated velocity of the Federal is 1165fps. That's faster than any published Parker recommendations. I am not really comfortable using these in my 1938 Parker, but I'm all ears to hear your point of view.
I just checked the RST page and two flats of the "Falcon Light" plus shipping came to $405.00 ... My my!



I would have no qualms about shooting those RST or Federals in any of my 16 gauge Parkers from Laminated, Damascus, Bernard and up to Titanic as long as the chambers and bores of yours haven’t been altered or otherwise compromised.





.

[Mike Koneski]

I shoot factory RST, reloaded RST shells and factory Fiocchi Shooting Dynamics in all my Parker and Lefever 16g guns. The only Parker I shoot 2 1/2” RST or RST reloads in solely is my higher grade Parker top-lever hammer gun.

[Dave Noreen]

This Remington era gun would have been chambered for 2 3/4 inch shells unless special ordered for something else. SAAMI specs had been in force for a decade when this gun was made. Remington 16-gauge shells at the time this gun was made were the 2 3/4 inch Auto-Express --

93714

the 2 9/16 inch Nitro Express --

93713

The 2 9/16 inch SHUR SHOT --

93715

Remington led the transition from the 2 9/16 inch 16-gauge shell to the 2 3/4 inch when they introduced their Model 11 and Sportsman autoloaders in 16-gauge in 1931 made for 2 3/4 inch shells. The first 16-gauge guns out of Ilion since the quit their hammerless doubles in 1910. By 1933 their Model 31 pump gun was on the market in 16-gauge also made for 2 3/4 inch shells. Along with these 2 3/4 inch chambered 16-gauge guns Remington introduced their 2 3/4 inch progressive burning powder Auto-Express shell with a 3 1/4 dram equiv. 1 1/8 ounce load. Their 2 9/16 inch progressive burning powder Nitro Express shell carried a 3 dram equiv. 1 1/8 ounce load.

[Dean Romig]

So Dave, would that mean that the chambers in 1938 were 2 5/8" to accommodate the 2 3/4" shells?





.

[Dave Noreen]

So Dave, would that mean that the chambers in 1938 were 2 5/8" to accommodate the 2 3/4" shells?

That is what the Remington specification sheets on pages 164 to 169 of The Parker Story say.

Now you got me looking. The SAAMI meeting where they talked about chamber lengths and made the recommendation that manufacturers start marking the chamber lengths on their guns was in 1937. I checked my 1936 Model 31 16-gauge two barrel set and the chambers are just over 2 5/8 inch. My 1938 vintage 16-gauge Sportsman has a chamber a full 2 3/4 inch. Neither of these guns are marked as to chamber length. My December 1940 VHE is marked 2 3/4 inch but the chambers measure just a strong 2 5/8 inch. Don't know what any of this means.

[Rich Anderson]

Jimmy Hall makes a good point on the heat from BP and the possibility of damage to the rib. I have a couple of VR Parkers but only shoot low pressure smokeless powder. If you check the date your gun was made I bet you will see that the use of BP was discontinued in favor of smokeless

[Bruce P Bruner]

The Parker Letter revealed the shotgun was ordered by the Wm. Hoegee Co. of Los Angeles, CA. founded in 1889. The company started out manufacturing awnings and tents for the mining and orange industry. By 1904 their outfitter store was 90,000 square feet located at 138 S Main St. LA. and also contained an expert gunshop. I have added a photo of William Hoegee's home.
The price listed in the 1928 was $227.00 plus $30.00 for the ventilated rib. Using the Inflation Adjustment Calculator today's cost would be $3931.38. I love 1/2 price Parkers.:rotf:

[Larry Stauch]

That's interesting and I too have seen those calculators for modern day costs as compared to costs of the day. However, in 1938 the newly enacted minimum wage was $.25 per hour and today I think it's around $15 an hour. That's a 60 fold increase. If we take the selling price of $227 times 60 that's about $13,620 if it were new, which makes a little more sense to me. Any way you look at it that's a beautiful gun and an incredible value at the Cabela's selling price. 45 states participate in the Power Ball lottery, I suggest you buy some tickets.

[Reggie Bishop]

Minimum wage is $7.25 but likely to increase with a Democrat controlled Congress.

[Larry Stauch]

Minimum wage is $7.25 but likely to increase with a Democrat controlled Congress.


Damn accounts, you can't get anything by them....:rotf::rotf:

[Dave Noreen]

Looks to me that they are looking to make up for this 16-gauge DHE with this early 20-gauge Trojan at seven grand --

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/shotguns/parker-shotguns/parker-brothers-trojan-20-ga-.cfm?gun_id=101616896

[Bruce P Bruner]

It's a extremely attractive 1913 Trojan 20 gauge, though at that price it will likely never sell. I'm guessing it's only overpriced by perhaps around $4000-$4500. I could be way off. They will incrementally lower the price over time until it's sold. I don't often see one that nice. I think there's always demand for high condition examples. I'm not hitting "speed dial".
There may have been a company wide bulletin reviewing Parker Brothers valuations.

[Brett Hoop]

Looks to me that they are looking to make up for this 16-gauge DHE with this early 20-gauge Trojan at seven grand --

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/shotguns/parker-shotguns/parker-brothers-trojan-20-ga-.cfm?gun_id=101616896

That must be a very special up grade for the butt stock:shock:

[Bruce P Bruner]

Oh, that GH butt stock. I didn't see that mentioned in the book.

[Dean Romig]

Holy - :eek:





.

[Bruce P Bruner]

Personally I think the case color looks a bit dark and overwhelming. Isn't factory Parker case coloring somewhat subdued? Just my observation.

[Larry Stauch]

Typical Cabela’s, 10 miles high or 10 miles low.

[Dave Noreen]

It appeared to me that it was restocked by Remington. From what I can see of the Remington repair code on the barrel flat it looks like BPP3 or BRR3 B = January, PP = 1945, RR = 1946. Perhaps they also refreshed the metal finishes at that time?

[Larry Stauch]

That gun looks pretty real to me, but then again I believed in the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. That stock certainly looks like it was made and fitted to that gun, capped pistol grip, dogs heads butt plate and all. Of course it's doomed now that they have priced it wrong. They will never let it go for what it's worth because they paid way more for it than that.