Grade 1 guns I, K, L, M, N, O. P, Q

[jefferyconnor]

What are the differences between the letter grades in grade 1 hammer guns? I have one enroute that has laminated barrels, does that fact decide which letter grade it is within the numerical grade 1 group? On the homepage on the Parker Grades section it says, "As Parker introduced the named grades they named Grade 1 guns I, K, L, M, N, O. P, Q, NH and PH." The pictures linked to at the tab on the bottom of the page states that grade 1 is the same as P grade in toplever guns. My gun is a grade 1 but my question is how do the letter grades I-Q fit in or does this gun fit into the letter scheme at all, being an 1888 gun?

[Dean Romig]

Those letters reference the grip style, the bore, and one or two other things. They were all listed in the Parker sales booklets that someone - I think it was Dr. Drew or Researcher Dave - posted here a couple of weeks ago.





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[Brian Dudley]

Xxx

[Andrew Sacco]

Xxx

I have seen XXX posted several times in this forum. What exactly is that supposed to mean? I'm not assuming you're having dirty breech thoughts..

[Dean Romig]

It means the author deleted his post.

In this case Brian had originally posted about the same thing I did as he was typing so after he posted it he went back and deleted it.






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[Andrew Sacco]

Got it Dean. You must have like a red Bat Phone to the forum as you post within the speed of light fast : )

[Dave Noreen]

Here is a price list that shows the differences --

93072

The Laminated Steel barrel guns are Qualities I, K, L & M. The differences being gauge and grip style.

While these price list texts state "Fine English Twist" and "Twist" all I've ever seen on the guns is "Twist" & "Stub Twist" and of course Dean's examples of misspelling.

[Andrew Sacco]

XXX ; )

[Brian Dudley]

Got it Dean. You must have like a red Bat Phone to the forum as you post within the speed of light fast : )



Or needs more to do...

[Dean Romig]

Or needs more to do...


It’s really tough being retired. :corn:





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[jefferyconnor]

Here is a price list that shows the differences --

93072

The Laminated Steel barrel guns are Qualities I, K, L & M. The differences being gauge and grip style.

While these price list texts state "Fine English Twist" and "Twist" all I've ever seen on the guns is "Twist" & "Stub Twist" and of course Dean's examples of misspelling.

Thanks, Researcher! I see now that letter qualities were a subset of the numerical grade.

[jefferyconnor]

Does anyone have pictures of mint condition grade 1 laminated steel barrels? I've done a search and discovered that some higher grade guns had laminated steel of a different style. There looks like a few different styles even within grade 1, I believe one is "pointelle", there's another style that's more of a swirling pattern. I'd be interested in seeing some examples of those.

[Dean Romig]

Here are a couple from Grade 1 Parkers. One is mine while the other is a friend's.

Mine is an 1893 T/A hammer 16 and the other is a set from my friend's

The first two pics are of mine and the second two are my friend's.

Two obviously different patterns and the Laminated barrels on my friend's PH are not what a PH would normally have been made with. They would/should have been Twist Steel for a hammerless Grade 1 of that vintage but his research letter says "Use customer's barrels." so they obviously came from a different gun.




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[jefferyconnor]

Thanks, Dean! That PH seems really unique as to pattern.

[Dean Romig]

It's extremely unusual as far as Parkers are concerned and we don't even know if thos barrels even started out on a Parker... but they're sure pretty!





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[Dean Romig]

While these price list texts state "Fine English Twist" and "Twist" all I've ever seen on the guns is "Twist" & "Stub Twist" and of course Dean's examples of misspelling.



I think this i what Dave is referring to...
I have no idea who owns this Parker but when I saw it on the forum here a decade or more ago I just HAD to save it.


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[jefferyconnor]

Here is a price list that shows the differences --

93072

The Laminated Steel barrel guns are Qualities I, K, L & M. The differences being gauge and grip style.

While these price list texts state "Fine English Twist" and "Twist" all I've ever seen on the guns is "Twist" & "Stub Twist" and of course Dean's examples of misspelling.

Researcher, do you happen to have the grade 2 price list by quality like this list?

It's interesting to note the $50 to $75 extremes within this grade.

[Dave Noreen]

Here are the upper grades from that price list.

93106

[jefferyconnor]

Researcher, after looking over these price sheets, the question comes to mind: were numerical grades actually used in 1882 or were the letter qualities how they were correctly distinguished by Parker at the time of manufacture?

Interesting to note L and H were the same price, likewise the F and G because the $5 charge for pistol grips created the pricing overlap.

[Eric Estes]

Dean, you could always come up to Concord and help me clear the snow off the driveway. Always a battle to get one of my boys to do it. Just sayin. :-)

[Dean Romig]

I know exactly what you’re saying. My two daughters used to do it without being asked but now that they and their families live in NH it’s just me with some help from Kathy.

Our youngest daughter (45) was thoughtful enough to contact the Senior Center here in town to see if they knew of any young high school kids who could help us with that. They put us on the list... but we’re still shovelling.





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[Dave Noreen]

xxx

[Dave Noreen]

The numerical Grades were used in the factory. The letter Qualities were used at the retail level.

However, by the 1920s terminology was in flux. In the 1925 catalog Parker Bros. uses Quality some places, Grade other places with the letter designations, and many places just the letter designations. In the 1927, 1929 and 1930 catalogs I have the guns are listed as PARKER B.H.E., PARKER TROJAN, etc.

93108

By the Remington era they were using the term Grade with the letter designations.